Playing in Church.

[xgsjx]

I really don’t get why though. & it seems to be a common theme across just about all churches. 

[ezbass]

3 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

I really don’t get why though. & it seems to be a common theme across just about all churches. 

I’ve never played in a worship group and, given what I’ve read here, I’m not sure I really would want to (despite a recent, playful offer to replace someone and since moving north of the border - I really want/need a gig of some description). The only reason I can think of for the practices experienced in this thread is due to the performance coming from a different headspace than a conventional gig. Rather than a form of entertainment for paying punters, it’s an accompaniment for the worshippers and is provided on a voluntary basis and, therefore, the usual stringency (for want of a better word) of a gigging band is negated. Things are somewhat different in the US, from what I understand, where performers are paid and move around the local churches, on a rota basis and some players are not even church goers, just musos in search of a gig/income stream.

 

However, as I’ve never played in church (even way back when when I was an active church member) I may be way off base (pun unintended) and feel free to educate me.

[Owen]

It is because you do not have to be a "player" to play there. People are offering their ability as a service to the church. And the reality is that most people in the congregation are blissfully unaware that the music is not 100% "on it".

 

Don't get me wrong, I have lost about 2mm of my teeth through grinding them while thinking "Why are you doing that? Can you not hear that it is not working?"

[xgsjx]

It’s a funny thing. I do enjoy playing in church, it’s just the nonsense that accompanies it can be a bit off putting. 

[LukeFRC]

On 15/11/2021 at 12:21, xgsjx said:

 

I find if you know the key of the song, the progression is gonna be a variant of 1, 4, 5, 6.  So something like G, C, Am, F.

 

I find that as a 100% self taught musical ignoramous who only really learned for fun… that there’s quite a few bands I’ve been in where I would be the only person to understand what @xgsjx was talking about… - that’s unfortunate 

 

then other bands there’s been fully trained amazing pros and I’ve kept quiet and try not to mess things up too much

[xgsjx]

18 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I find that as a 100% self taught musical ignoramous who only really learned for fun… that there’s quite a few bands I’ve been in where I would be the only person to understand what @xgsjx was talking about… - that’s unfortunate 

 

then other bands there’s been fully trained amazing pros and I’ve kept quiet and try not to mess things up too much

On that, last month I was chatting with a guitarist just before the service.  He asked how I managed to play without any charts, so I said "I just learn what variation of 1, 4, 5, 6 the song parts are.  His response....

"I've never learned to read tab".

 

Oh dear.

[Richard R]

I recently found that SongSelect will let you download a lot of the chord charts with Nashville Numbers, rather than chord names on.  My plan was to use those, and thus train my ears better to learn where the chords go.

Haven't played in church since!

 

On the other hand I have finished a couple of songs, one of which has come out even better than expected.

[Sardonicus]

Our church agreed that we should get the list of songs on a Wednesday, on the Monday the person leading the following Sunday, is to ask the Pastor what the sermon direction is so they can fit the songs around that.....it's now 12:48pm on Wednesday afternoon and they haven't even chosen who's singing yet.   

 

No chance of getting the songs in time to actually learn them yet again.

[xgsjx]

1 hour ago, Sardonicus said:

No chance of getting the songs in time to actually learn them yet again.

Which is why the lame hillsong & bethel songs are so popular. There’s nothing to actually learn. 😂

[oldslapper]

1 hour ago, Sardonicus said:

 the person leading the following Sunday, is to ask the Pastor what the sermon direction is so they can fit the songs around that....

Why isn’t it the other way round? 
 

[Bobo_08]

2 hours ago, xgsjx said:

Which is why the lame hillsong & bethel songs are so popular. There’s nothing to actually learn. 😂

Some of them I like, but yea I agree they are pretty flipping boring for bass players, almost all of them are just root notes... with the odd passing note to get you the next root. Great for begineers, but even I have have started to grown tired of them. Of course one can always add their own flavour to things from time to time

[Bobo_08]

2 hours ago, oldslapper said:

Why isn’t it the other way round? 
 

Sounds like you not a frequent Church goer? ..... Also in most cases it means the pastor would have less than 48 hours to prepare his sermon/teaching 😆

[LukeFRC]

1 minute ago, Bobo_08 said:

Sounds like you not a frequent Church goer? ..... Also in most cases it means the pastor would have less than 48 hours to prepare his sermon/teaching 😆

We have a rota with the forthcoming year sketched out with the series, breaks and Easter, Christmas planned in and who’s preaching and what they are preaching on….

[oldslapper]

1 hour ago, Bobo_08 said:

Sounds like you not a frequent Church goer? ..... Also in most cases it means the pastor would have less than 48 hours to prepare his sermon/teaching 😆

It’s been a while 😊

I don’t think I’ll ever understand church goings on, it all very complicated 😂

 

Glad people are getting a chance to play though, and practicing their seat of the pants improv chops. 😎

[xgsjx]

2 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

We have a rota with the forthcoming year sketched out with the series, breaks and Easter, Christmas planned in and who’s preaching and what they are preaching on….

😲 Next you’ll be telling us you get band rehearsals too!  🤣

[LukeFRC]

9 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

😲 Next you’ll be telling us you get band rehearsals too!  🤣

Last two churchs used too, always in the the week before you were playing. Current one not so much, but we're currently only 2-3 band members cos of covid. 

I've always been blessed to be in situations where embracing the craziness and learning as a musician was possible vs getting jaded and demotivated by it.
I started learning bass as my first ever instrument at 18 when I went to Uni.... within 6 months I had been conviced to play on a Sunday. There's was quite a learning curve- but you know what folk put up with me as a complete beginner who didn't know what they were doing so I can put up with others in that situation. 

[bass_dinger]

19 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I started learning bass as my first ever instrument at 18 when I went to Uni.... within 6 months I had been conviced to play on a Sunday. There's was quite a learning curve- but you know what folk put up with me as a complete beginner who didn't know what they were doing so I can put up with others in that situation. 

 

This principle is perhaps why church music is as it is - that many of us came up via the route of playing with a band, and not being very good, at least for a while.  Thus, when the next generation of musicians emerges, we too want to be kind and patient with them.  Thus, we allow them to sit in with the band, to make mistakes, and to allow them to learn by making mistakes.

 

Add to that EZBass's wise comment: "The only reason I can think of for the practices experienced in this thread is due to the performance coming from a different headspace than a conventional gig. Rather than a form of entertainment for paying punters, it’s an accompaniment for the worshippers and is provided on a voluntary basis and, therefore, the usual stringency (for want of a better word) of a gigging band is negated."

 

Thus, a church is more likely to entertain beginners and amateurs. 

 

In my experience, that only works to a certain extent - new players need to be coached, each week, so that they can continue to improve.   Instead, they might be left to play with no coaching or guidance.

 

    

[Bobo_08]

I think playing in Church can be a great training ground, beginners get to learn what it's like to play with others keep time with drummer and all those other additional dynamics that are hard to replicate at home. It can be a great enviroment as there is no commercial pressure etc, and if there are a couple of decent proper musicians as is my situation, you can learn a ton from them

[StickyDBRmf]

2 hours ago, Bobo_08 said:

I think playing in Church can be a great training ground, beginners get to learn what it's like to play with others keep time with drummer and all those other additional dynamics that are hard to replicate at home. It can be a great enviroment as there is no commercial pressure etc, and if there are a couple of decent proper musicians as is my situation, you can learn a ton from them

What if the Pastor says, "You're not getting them on their FEET! They're not putting enough in the TILL!"

[LukeFRC]

14 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said:

What if the Pastor says, "You're not getting them on their FEET! They're not putting enough in the TILL!"

Personally, Ild probably be part of a different church soon after 

[StickyDBRmf]

Thanks for bailing me out Luke. That was a close moderator alert...

[Bobo_08]

37 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said:

What if the Pastor says, "You're not getting them on their FEET! They're not putting enough in the TILL!"

That's sounds pretty bad, unless it was said as a joke... but man..... that's one bad joke!

[Sardonicus]

We rehearse every Friday from 8pm-10pm, this time is usually peppered by one or more of the following;

• People turning up late.
• People trying to leave early.
• People turning up late AND THEN trying to leave early.
• People not turning up at all because they forgot they were playing.
• People asking "What songs are we playing?" because they haven't listened to them.
• Someone asking "What instrument am I playing?"....could it be the same one you always play?
• Finding out that the Tech Team aren't coming so us musicians spend the first 40-50 minutes wrestling with the PA.
• Being interrupted by church members that are passing by and ringing the doorbell because they think they're missing out on a sneaky prayer meeting.
• Someone not paying attention to what they're doing because they had to bring the kids, and the kids "....are booooored!!!"
• Someone asking me if I printed off the songs, despite the fact that I only ever use a tablet.
• Me being asked to start every song and always being astounded by the fact that no-one ever wants to start a song, even though it's their instrument that STARTS THE SONG !!!
• Someone arriving to open up with no keys.
• Someone spending all the time on their phone and holding up the entire rehearsal.
• Someone saying "Shall we pray?" before we start and then thinking that it's Sunday morning and 25 minutes later they're still going on.

Lets see which of the above I can cross off my `Rehearsal Bingo' card tonight.

 

[LukeFRC]

52 minutes ago, Sardonicus said:

We rehearse every Friday from 8pm-10pm, this time is usually peppered by one or more of the following;

• People turning up late.
• People trying to leave early.
• People turning up late AND THEN trying to leave early.
• People not turning up at all because they forgot they were playing.
• People asking "What songs are we playing?" because they haven't listened to them.
• Someone asking "What instrument am I playing?"....could it be the same one you always play?
• Finding out that the Tech Team aren't coming so us musicians spend the first 40-50 minutes wrestling with the PA.
• Being interrupted by church members that are passing by and ringing the doorbell because they think they're missing out on a sneaky prayer meeting.
• Someone not paying attention to what they're doing because they had to bring the kids, and the kids "....are booooored!!!"
• Someone asking me if I printed off the songs, despite the fact that I only ever use a tablet.
• Me being asked to start every song and always being astounded by the fact that no-one ever wants to start a song, even though it's their instrument that STARTS THE SONG !!!
• Someone arriving to open up with no keys.
• Someone spending all the time on their phone and holding up the entire rehearsal.
• Someone saying "Shall we pray?" before we start and then thinking that it's Sunday morning and 25 minutes later they're still going on.

Lets see which of the above I can cross off my `Rehearsal Bingo' card tonight.

 

Out of interest do you have the equivalent of band leaders

[Sardonicus]

@LukeFRC We did have one person organizing everything but he stood down last year.  As I've only been playing in the church for 5 months I didn't want to wade in and take over but, having been in and around bands for over 30 years, I know what I'm doing so I plan to offer my experience and knowledge and hopefully they'll take up my offer, even a church worship team needs routine and structure.

 

My biggest bugbear is when you text everyone on the Signal Worship Team group and not one person answers or acknowledges it, I'm big on communication.