Playing in Church.

[bass_dinger]

15 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

@Sardonicus - so the music is unlikely to challenge you so focus on the positives - you are being trained to pick up songs quickly, improvise parts, change key on the fly… all that stuff without paying Scot’s bass lessons* for the “pick up songs quickly”, “improvise parts” of “change key on the fly” lessons 

 

 

 

* other online bass lessons exist but don’t show me adverts everyday on YouTube so might as well not

If one immerses oneself in church worship bands, it is a great training ground, for the reasons that LukeFRC shared.   However, not everyone embraces the opportunity, and it seems to me that some musicians become better, while others simply stagnate.

 

So, I have learnt to play in all the keys, because the YouTube video is in one key, the chord charts are in another, and, on the day, the singers find that the chart key is too low, and they want it higher.  So, one song in three keys - sometimes in the space of 5 minutes.  Add to that a drummer who plays differently to the drummer that played last week, and a new guitarist who does not follow the charts ("Just play by ear, Rob!") and I get the opportunity to become more versatile.   

However, I do feel that the whole gig is made less enjoyable when people make no effort to improve.

 

[Owen]

People put themselves forward to serve. Not all of them have the correct skillset. Sometimes that can be nipped in the bud and they can be told "yeah, but let us walk through techniques etc for a couple of months before we let you loose on a Sunday morning". Teaching that skillset is time consuming. Time is not what a lot of us have.

 

This means that people slip through the net and as we play we are thinking "is that ok?" and "why would you play that there?". Not every week, but some weeks. The beauty of it is that a lot of it goes over most people's heads. It is SUPER frustrating for those of us who have put the hours in. But I guess it is a mentoring situation - a bit like Brass Banding. The tricky bit is the "you are not doing that right, let me help you" and the finding time. But being in community is costly.

 

I would prefer to have one acoustic played well and one vocal and leave it at that. It is leading, not performing. Sometimes that is a difficult convesation. As long as the congregation have a cue to start singing in the right place, everything else is secondary. If we are relying on a stellar band rocking it out to whip up something, then there is a problem right there.

 

I very certainly do not look to playing in church to get my musical jollies. It is to serve - like stacking the chairs, and no more than that.

[Owen]

We have all been in bands down the local pub where not everyone is pulling their weight. Church is no different. It is just people.

[LukeFRC]

I agree with Owen

[LukeFRC]

Except about 4 string basses

[Owen]

1 minute ago, LukeFRC said:

Except about 4 string basses

You are still young. There is time.

[xgsjx]

Just going over today’s songs (I learned them last night, just doing a recap). 
One of the songs, “ His name is Jesus” by Phil Wickham is shifted by a 5th to suit the lead singist. I still don’t get why though?

When learning the song last night, other than the original key, there was a female fronted version which was a semitone down, which to me is a sensible adjustment, not 5 (or 7) semitones.
This is very common in our church & makes some songs hard for much of the congregation to sing. 

Surely if you have to mess up a song by that much, then either pick songs in a key close to what the singist can do, or have one of the singer’s who can sing it in a similar key do that song?

 

But hey, this is my penultimate set at this church for a while.  There’s too many things with worship music for me that makes it unenjoyable. Playing the song isn’t one of them. It’s getting a set list on Wednesday, the silly key changes, the “ohh, let’s remove the instrumental parts or cut them to 2 bars” nonsense. Why? That’s the bit where the congregation can really reflect on what they’ve just been trying to sing!  There’s the sudden change of song, or adding tags from another song that fit like a square into a round hole. And then there’s the not finding out what the darn closing song is until 1/2 way through the pastor’s service. What is that all about?  Surely the song pickers could just ask him what he’s preaching on in advance???

[ezbass]

I am grateful to this thread for helping me dodge a bullet. Despite really wanting to play with others again (I moved 525 miles north in late 2020) and someone mentioning that the bass player in their church had moved away, so they needed a replacement, this thread gave me pause and I’m very thankful for the honesty shared here 🙏. Had I taken up the offer, I don’t think I’d have been able to bite my tongue (unusual for me) and some home truths would have been dealt out.

[oldslapper]

47 minutes ago, ezbass said:

I am grateful to this thread for helping me dodge a bullet. Despite really wanting to play with others again (I moved 525 miles north in late 2020) and someone mentioning that the bass player in their church had moved away, so they needed a replacement, this thread gave me pause and I’m very thankful for the honesty shared here 🙏. Had I taken up the offer, I don’t think I’d have been able to bite my tongue (unusual for me) and some home truths would have been dealt out.

Although I stopped playing in church a few years ago for many reasons, some listed above, I think it’s fair to say not everyone’s experience is negative.
So don’t let mine and others frustrations put you off. Perhaps it’s about laying out your expectations and listening to your new church’s expectations and seeing if they match, or compromise can be reached.
So much goes unsaid and much is assumed, and I think this is a shaky foundation.

You want to play with others, maybe your new church environment is the place, maybe it isn’t. You’ll only know if you find out some more info. 
If it transpires that it’s not even after you have “joined” a rota. It’s ok to stop, it really is. 
Hope you find some peeps to play with, whether it’s at St Kevin’s on a Sunday morning  or The Kebab and Calculator on a Saturday night (or both). 
P&L 

[Richard R]

21 hours ago, ezbass said:

I am grateful to this thread for helping me dodge a bullet. Despite really wanting to play with others again (I moved 525 miles north in late 2020) and someone mentioning that the bass player in their church had moved away, so they needed a replacement, this thread gave me pause and I’m very thankful for the honesty shared here 🙏. Had I taken up the offer, I don’t think I’d have been able to bite my tongue (unusual for me) and some home truths would have been dealt out.

 

20 hours ago, oldslapper said:

Although I stopped playing in church a few years ago for many reasons, some listed above, I think it’s fair to say not everyone’s experience is negative.
So don’t let mine and others frustrations put you off. Perhaps it’s about laying out your expectations and listening to your new church’s expectations and seeing if they match, or compromise can be reached.

 

The thing to remember is that this thread is a bit of a "safe space", so people can and do vent their frustrations or ask for advice with awkward situations. Chances are that if you're active on this forum then you probably take music and your playing more seriously than many other people who can play an instrument but for whom it's not a passion. Many of your fellow band mates may only play in church, and hardly practice other than for the service. That's OK - they serve as they can. It is annoying when people could do far better for a modicum of effort, or change songs at the last minute,  but we're called to be gentle with each other. We're called to be Christians first, and musicians second. If it ever becomes the other way round then we've screwed up and need to get our priorities straight.  

 

I am not a great player, I'm adequate and improving. Some services go well, others not so. Today I was constantly ahead of the beat on "Lord Reign in me", correspondingly late on "Build My Life", and goodness alone knows what happened on "Big Family of God" when the low D suddenly came out 12db louder than expected, clipped the input DAC, and sounded like a herd of farting elephants! However the BL (who is 30 years my junior and a superb musician), knows that I'm putting in the practice and slowly getting better, so he wants me in the band.  As he's tolerant with my playing, I'm tolerant that he sends songs late, changes his mind, and is considerably less organized than I am.

 

Maybe see if you can turn up and play "socially" with the band with no time or service pressure and just see how you get along?

 

So as @oldslapper says, don't let this thread put you off if you feel you want to worship.

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Richard R
edited for typo.

[Sardonicus]

On 01/05/2022 at 10:06, ezbass said:

I am grateful to this thread for helping me dodge a bullet. Despite really wanting to play with others again (I moved 525 miles north in late 2020) and someone mentioning that the bass player in their church had moved away, so they needed a replacement, this thread gave me pause and I’m very thankful for the honesty shared here 🙏. Had I taken up the offer, I don’t think I’d have been able to bite my tongue (unusual for me) and some home truths would have been dealt out.

 

Go for it, approach your church and put yourself out there.

 

I might have a moan on here but I love playing in church, I use this thread purely to let off a bit of steam, nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Sardonicus
Bad grammar

[xgsjx]

If you want to play at church, give it a go. You can always change your mind if you find it unenjoyable. 
 

I’ll likely go back at some point. It’s just too much for me just now & the lack of forward planning is unnecessary stress that I don’t need just now (YCMV). 

[Richard R]

7 hours ago, Sardonicus said:

I use this thread purely to let off a bit of steam, nothing more, nothing less.

 

And occasionally delivering awesome bass prayers!

 

[Sardonicus]

@Richard R Thank you 🙏🏼.  I'm delivering my first sermon on June 12th.

 

I'm playing and leading worship in the Sunday morning service and then I'm preaching during our newly reinstated Sunday Soak Worship in the evening.

 

I can't wait 😁

[bass_dinger]

Looks like I will soon be taking a break from playing bass in church shortly - my bass is starting to fail and cannot be repaired! 

 

No bass, no playing.

 

Actually  . . . . I do in fact have an acoustic 5 string bass that I could use (although it feeds back on our noisy stage.  So, maybe not).

 

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

Looks like I will soon be taking a break from playing bass in church shortly - my bass is starting to fail and cannot be repaired! 

 

No bass, no playing.

 

Actually  . . . . I do in fact have an acoustic 5 string bass that I could use (although it feeds back on our noisy stage.  So, maybe not).

 

I would message someone like andyjr1515 and get their take - £1000 to fix a truss sounds a bit like the price you would give if you didn’t really want the job..

[Matt P]

4 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I would message someone like andyjr1515 and get their take - £1000 to fix a truss sounds a bit like the price you would give if you didn’t really want the job..

i have tagged him on the other thread, i'm fairly sure he can sort it at a very sensible price.

 

 

[bass_dinger]

3 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I would message someone like andyjr1515 and get their take - £1000 to fix a truss sounds a bit like the price you would give if you didn’t really want the job..

I think that it would work out as less than that, and the work includes the removal of the fretboard and a refret too. 

 

As for andyjr1515, is he the gentleman who repaired the neck of a Washburn acoustic, when the truss rod had burst out of the neck? If so, I enjoyed that thread!

 

Hmm. Washburn.  Truss rod problems.  I see a theme here.

[Owen]

£1K for that is...............uncool.

[bass_dinger]

22 hours ago, Owen said:

£1K for that is...............uncool.

To be fair, the quote was for a little less - but still £700 and potentially  above that, but would have covered everything, including work to refinish the neck if it were damaged when the fret board was removed, new truss rod, a refret, and new fretboard too.

 

Here's an example of their work, plugging a jack socket hole on a mahogany Lowden.  I am happy with everything they have done, and they have been honest about stopping other projects when I would have incurred a big bill, for no real benefit. 

 

[nilebodgers]

Oh dear, I've volunteered myself to join the random group that plays at the monthly informal "Cafe Church" service at my little rural church. Just a couple of acoustic guitars and now with me too on bass next Sunday.

 

Nearest thing to a gig I've done in a very long time. Hope it doesn't cut into the amount of cakes and tea I usually consume at that service...

[Owen]

I am all about those cakes as well!

[xgsjx]

That sounds like my sort of gig.  😂

[Kevsy71]

Sunday's service with no drummer- songs at 7m45s and 56m. Kept it simple to help keep the beat; except for missing the ending of the last song with a gratuitous harmonic! Brought along an EBS Studio 30 combo for monitoring, worked a treat.

 

https://tbc.jwpapp.com/m/YP6XgktL/the-woman-at-the-well-service-led-by-nicola-foot-and-neil-durling?list=ZvKJTIPy

[Richard R]

20 hours ago, Owen said:

I am all about those cakes as well!

All about the cakes, about the cakes, no nibbles.