Playing in Church.

[xgsjx]

Just now, Richard R said:

My kids hate me when I deliberately mangle songs and my version gets stuck in their heads. Now I know how they feel. Brilliant! 😂 

Wont stop now outro first line is now: I know Grapefruit is coming. 

 

 

[Richard R]

I definitely see more 5 string basses at churches than in the wild, other than theatre bands. I suspect it's because it's easier to transpose keys and play songs in Eb. That was my logic anyway.  And of course because they are more common you're more likely to see one and try it and so they persist. 

 

Brawley Artemis 5 active through-neck, either DI straight into the desk or via cheap but effective Behringer amp sim which the other bassist (passive Westfield) always uses as its also an active DI. IEMs for both us on bass and slowly getting the musicians in other bands to follow. 

Desk is a Qu32, bought having seen the one at @Owen's church amongst others, I do my own monitor mix but that isn't common yet. 

[dmc79]

I’ve never been one for having multiple basses at once, but this week I did get a short scale bass just because I’ve wanted to try one for a while. When we play songs in silly keys like Eb and Bb, that first to fourth fret stretch kills my hand, so the idea of a shorter (and lighter) bass than my Precision really piqued my curiosity.
 

Got a Squier VM Jaguar, after reading a lot about people loving the P/J pickup combination, fast & slim neck and contoured body shape (some short scales are slab bodied like the Fender Mustang). I took it to a local guitar shop for a setup but can’t wait to get it back and play around, seems like it will be a lot of fun and it’s so light. Don’t know yet if short scale will work for me but I’ll give it a try.

 

It’s a cheap bass but I’ve read that players love the neck & body so much that they don’t mind using it as a mod platform and throwing money at pickup, bridge, tuners, electronics replacements, etc. Mine came with an upgraded bridge from the previous owner which is nice. It seems to be a lot of bass for the money - they were discontinued early 2019 and can now go for more used than they were new. 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by dmc79

[Richard R]

6 minutes ago, dmc79 said:

When we play songs in silly keys like Eb and Bb, that first to fourth fret stretch kills my hand

Hence cheating by playing 5 string. Eb is fourth fret on the low B, so you just play all the same shapes as you do for G. In fact you play the same shapes for E, F, or A, C, or Bb and forget the open string positions. 

 

Come to the dark side (we have cookies too 😋)

Edited May 14, 2022 by Richard R
grammar correction

[dmc79]

Just now, Richard R said:

Hence cheating by playing 5 string. Eb is fourth fret on the low B, so you just play all the same shapes as you do for G. In fact you play the same shapes for E, F, or A, or C, and forget the open string positions. 

 

Come to the dark side (we have cookies too 😋)

Tried one once, couldn’t get used to the string spacing. 

 

[Richard R]

Too narrow? That is a problem I found. Mine has the same spacing as the equivalent 4 string which is my other bass. The drawback is that the fretboard is wide enough to land light aircraft on. 

Hopefully shortscale will work for you.

[LukeFRC]

I honestly think if you can play it competently the bass you play is pretty much irrelevant for vollenteering to join a local church’s band. 
5 strings does let you transpose keys easier.

and (controversially maybe) a simple bass to mix for vollenteer PA teams is a bonus vs the gear geekery you find on basschat. I tend to grab my Sadowsky J most the time at church - mainly as it’s easy to mix. The Warwick streamer with ACG preamp I used to have sounded amazing solo, but was a pain to get in the mix right.

that said I use a hx stomp as a amp and use a high pass filter to cut off the top and bottom - again to make it easier to sit in the mix 

[LeftyP]

I don't get hung up on technology and have very little control over how my bass sounds in church.  I plug into a D.I. box and the volume and tone is in the hands of the sound guys.  I'm crammed into a corner between the drums and keyboard and only have a small Behringer monitor on a stand through which to hear the whole band.  The monitor struggles to cope with the bass frequencies and as I'm behind the main speakers, I cannot hear what the congregation hears.

 

I play a short scale four string fitted with flat wounds.  I suspect most of the congregation will not really notice the bass and those that do will not care how much it cost or how many gadgets it is fed through.  I like to keep things simple!

[xgsjx]

1 hour ago, LeftyP said:

I don't get hung up on technology and have very little control over how my bass sounds in church.  I plug into a D.I. box and the volume and tone is in the hands of the sound guys.  I'm crammed into a corner between the drums and keyboard and only have a small Behringer monitor on a stand through which to hear the whole band.  The monitor struggles to cope with the bass frequencies and as I'm behind the main speakers, I cannot hear what the congregation hears.

 

I play a short scale four string fitted with flat wounds.  I suspect most of the congregation will not really notice the bass and those that do will not care how much it cost or how many gadgets it is fed through.  I like to keep things simple!

Why not replace the monitor with a headphone amp & then plug in a pair of earphones?

Edited May 14, 2022 by xgsjx

[TrevorR]

On 13/05/2022 at 22:01, xgsjx said:

Coincidence.  In my worship team 2 of us play Ibanez, one plays aFender P, one plays a P copy & I also play a Sterling Stingray.

Over the last couple of decades very few jazzes but bassists playing…

• Me - Wal, Wal, Aria Pro2 or Frankenjazz
• Japanese Fender PJ
• Wal or Goodfellow
• Westone Thunder 2
• Lakland 5 string (strictly a Jazz, I suppose)
• Peavey Cirrus
• Fender P-bass

[Richard R]

The most popular bassist in our church, sadly departed, played an ancient Rickenbacker.

 

Rock In Paradise, Kev.

[TrevorR]

I own basses I love playing so those are the only criteria wherever I’m playing, in church or elsewhere. So that’s the basis of my choice. I’ll caveat that various circumstances mean I’ve not played in church or pretty much anywhere else since lockdown  - it may mean that we will need to move church when we get back in the pews, but that’s another story… 

 

However, the bass I play most will be my 1985 Wal Custom bass… just because it’s great . That’s probably 60 or 70% of the time. Another big chunk would be my 1979 Wal Pro bass, but I’d be happy playing my Aria Pro 2 SB700 or Frankenjazz and have on occasion when the fancy took me. All great basses.

 

 

 

I didn’t use any pedals for many decades except maybe a touch of chorus sometime. Since 2014, when we briefly tried going IEM and amp free (it never stuck when WL changed, fantastic sound guy moved on and guitarist/singers revolted/refused), I’ve built a modest pedalboard… Charts are all on OnSong in transposable form.

 

I took the approach that each pedal would be there for a particular result that I wanted to achieve and it has developed to the board attached below... Here's how I use them...

• PolyTune Tuner - obvs but this is also my mute for unplugging between sets since I use active basses.
• Little Lehle Loop Switcher. Places the effects in a loop between the tuner and Sansamp so I can have a straight through sound when not using any particular effects (most of the time to be honest). Then when switched on, the signal goes out of the Lehle into the...
• EHX Bass Soul Food O/D - specifically a low gain structure OD to add a small amount of "hair" and mild crunchy break up to rockier tunes. I'm not a fan of distortion on bass. But it's also used in conjunction with... 
• CaliforniWah Envelope Filter - there are a few soulful/nu-gospel songs we do which benefit from a little funk/wah on them (or at least one of the occasional W/Ls  who chooses those songs likes a few of them with it - to be used sparingly). Also use it on our version of Hezekiah Walker's "Every Praise" for a similar funky sound. But this is mostly used in conjunction with the OD for some synth-bass type tones on more EDM influenced tunes such as Let It Be So, Alive, Let Praise Awaken. Personally I'd rather approximate the tone this way than get a bass synth keyboard. But this is a niche effect for this sort of song.
• Tremolo - fair enough, this one is an indulgence but a useful one. I got this because I'm a sucker for Chris Squire's sound on tracks like Starship Trooper. However, it gets used in worship a fair bit. Mostly on moody sounding songs like More Love More Power or My Soul Longs For You but also on more up-beat ones where it drops down to a "down bridge" as an additional texture.
•  Chorus - never been a fan of the wibbly-wobbly, underwater 90s indie/grunge chorus sounds so this is used to add some gentle 80s pop-style shimmer on some ballad-type choruses  or when I'm plucking my bass over the end of the neck to sort of emulate a more double bass tone - the chorus helps to accentuate the effect.

...and finally the signal goes back into the Little Lehle and out to...

• Tech 21 VTBassDI (Sansamp) - this feeds an amp/speaker sim'd signal to the PA. It's set for a lowish gain Ampeg B-15/SVT hybrid sound which just gives a little bit of crunch when I really dig in on the bass. The pedal feeds an amp/speaker simulated DI output straight to the PA via a balanced XLR cable and also goes to a stage monitor amp (if I’m using one) via the 1/4 inch jack output and a standard guitar cable.

Hope that gives you an indication on why I use the various pedals I use and in what worship situations and why they’re in that order.

 

Used to bring my MarkBass LM2 and Traveller 2x10 as a bass monitor but over the years we’ve had some church bass amp combos… GK, Hartke and now a Rumble which all serve their purpose.

[nilebodgers]

On 10/05/2022 at 21:59, nilebodgers said:

Oh dear, I've volunteered myself to join the random group that plays at the monthly informal "Cafe Church" service at my little rural church. Just a couple of acoustic guitars and now with me too on bass next Sunday.

 

Nearest thing to a gig I've done in a very long time. Hope it doesn't cut into the amount of cakes and tea I usually consume at that service...

I still got good cakeage, but not until the end of the service. Fortunately there was home-made banana cake and muffins left which went very nicely with a mug of tea.

 

The music turned up late (2 songs Friday night, 2 Saturday night), but still enough time to grab a listen to versions on YouTube. Fortunately the best guitarist/leader is a wizard with a capo and substituting odd chords so we could play off the sheet music with no issues. It’s all about the congregational singing anyway, so a few flubs in the music is irrelevant as long as we are confident and keep going!

 

Went well, all considered and everyone was happy with the fuller sound of the music. I loved it.

 

I also got volunteered to play at an open-air public service we are doing for the Jubilee as part of the local celebrations. That will be rehearsed though.

[xgsjx]

29 minutes ago, nilebodgers said:

I still got good cakeage, but not until the end of the service. Fortunately there was home-made banana cake and muffins left which went very nicely with a mug of tea.

 

The music turned up late (2 songs Friday night, 2 Saturday night), but still enough time to grab a listen to versions on YouTube. Fortunately the best guitarist/leader is a wizard with a capo and substituting odd chords so we could play off the sheet music with no issues. It’s all about the congregational singing anyway, so a few flubs in the music is irrelevant as long as we are confident and keep going!

 

Went well, all considered and everyone was happy with the fuller sound of the music. I loved it.

 

I also got volunteered to play at an open-air public service we are doing for the Jubilee as part of the local celebrations. That will be rehearsed though.

One thing I found helpful when learning church songs, was to have one listen to the original, then go find an acoustic version of the song in the key (or as close a key as possible) that the church singist wants it in & practice to that version.  This way there's a high chance of the bassline being better than the original You're praising God with your bass.

[xgsjx]

7 hours ago, TrevorR said:

I didn’t use any pedals for many decades except maybe a touch of chorus sometime. Since 2014, when we briefly tried going IEM and amp free (it never stuck when WL changed, fantastic sound guy moved on and guitarist/singers revolted/refused), I’ve built a modest pedalboard… Charts are all on OnSong in transposable form.

 

I find IEM works really well.  Do you have IEMs for the MD or is that sign language?

 

My tip of the day is to drop the chord charts & learn the song's parts using the chord number method.  That way you can free yourself up to focus on playing rather than eyes tied to a chart, and as it's the chord numbers, easy transposes.  

 

[nilebodgers]

5 hours ago, xgsjx said:

One thing I found helpful when learning church songs, was to have one listen to the original, then go find an acoustic version of the song in the key (or as close a key as possible) that the church singist wants it in & practice to that version.  This way there's a high chance of the bassline being better than the original You're praising God with your bass.

That’s a good idea. We are using the tune of O Come all Ye Faithful with specially written lyrics for the Jubilee event, so I intend to pilfer all the best bits of the bass keyboard part to create a version to work with guitar backing. I like it when the traditional tunes have bass counter-melodies and non-root notes over the chords, much more fun than a lot of modern tunes that can be rather obvious and plodding.

[LeftyP]

On 14/05/2022 at 20:41, xgsjx said:

Why not replace the monitor with a headphone amp & then plug in a pair of earphones?

Because I'm not the only one relying on that monitor.  This Sunday was really good as I was positioned where I could hear the main church speakers so I knew what I was playing!

[xgsjx]

15 minutes ago, LeftyP said:

Because I'm not the only one relying on that monitor.  This Sunday was really good as I was positioned where I could hear the main church speakers so I knew what I was playing!

Fair enough. What about a splitter to send one to the monitor & another to 1 or more headphone amps?

I know it’s a cost & really it should come from church funds.  But it shouldn’t be too much. 

[TrevorR]

12 hours ago, xgsjx said:

I find IEM works really well.  Do you have IEMs for the MD or is that sign language?

 

My tip of the day is to drop the chord charts & learn the song's parts using the chord number method.  That way you can free yourself up to focus on playing rather than eyes tied to a chart, and as it's the chord numbers, easy transposes.  

 

Never felt the need to go full Nashville Numbers… I tend to think I’d chord sequences in terms  of the harmonised major and minor scales (which is the theory which NN is based on anyway) so I think of the relationships between the chords rather than just trying to follow a random sequence of chord names. That helps a lot with key changes or on the fly transposition as I’ll be thinking of the shape of the chord sequence as well as the chords themselves. 
 

To be honest most of the time, unless it’s a brand new song, the iPad is more of a security blanket than anything. I don’t look at it much. Singing helps but most of all it’s the many years in my teens and 20s I spent singing in choirs. I was trained when singing from music only to glance down occasionally and scan the information needed in no more than a second or so and then eyes back up and forward. It’s a discipline I’ve carried with me ever since. To be honest the place my eyes are likely to be most glued to are my left hand - a bad habit I’ve tried to unlearn over the years.

 

Where the iPad really comes into its own is managing the music, home practice and random songs being thrown in at the last minute or even during the service if the pastor suddenly says, “Can we just sing…”

 

We never went the whole way with IEMs - tracks and robot voices yelling out “Bridge 2 3 4…”. Our pastor, who spent his pre-church career in the music industry hates that stuff and wants music played by a bunch of musicians following the WL and playing more organically. And besides only half of us ever went IEM and amp free anyway, so with one guitarist and all the vocalists still having monitors and the new WL not encouraging or enforcing it that was never going to work. Also, losing our good sound techs and having to rely on a caretaker tech who really didn’t understand the system or sound, it was never going to fly the longer term…

[Richard R]

I discovered the numbers when Song Select made them an option on their chord charts, and find them really useful. I'm now learning to hear the chord changes in music as 1-4-6-5 or whatever, which gives me a map of the song onto the fretboard. And when we swap keys I don't get panicked any more!

 

I'm still a long way from jazz, but have come a long way from not even knowing which end of the bass to blow into.

[xgsjx]

2 hours ago, TrevorR said:

Never felt the need to go full Nashville Numbers… I tend to think I’d chord sequences in terms  of the harmonised major and minor scales (which is the theory which NN is based on anyway) so I think of the relationships between the chords rather than just trying to follow a random sequence of chord names. That helps a lot with key changes or on the fly transposition as I’ll be thinking of the shape of the chord sequence as well as the chords themselves. 
 

To be honest most of the time, unless it’s a brand new song, the iPad is more of a security blanket than anything. I don’t look at it much. Singing helps but most of all it’s the many years in my teens and 20s I spent singing in choirs. I was trained when singing from music only to glance down occasionally and scan the information needed in no more than a second or so and then eyes back up and forward. It’s a discipline I’ve carried with me ever since. To be honest the place my eyes are likely to be most glued to are my left hand - a bad habit I’ve tried to unlearn over the years.

 

Where the iPad really comes into its own is managing the music, home practice and random songs being thrown in at the last minute or even during the service if the pastor suddenly says, “Can we just sing…”

 

We never went the whole way with IEMs - tracks and robot voices yelling out “Bridge 2 3 4…”. Our pastor, who spent his pre-church career in the music industry hates that stuff and wants music played by a bunch of musicians following the WL and playing more organically. And besides only half of us ever went IEM and amp free anyway, so with one guitarist and all the vocalists still having monitors and the new WL not encouraging or enforcing it that was never going to work. Also, losing our good sound techs and having to rely on a caretaker tech who really didn’t understand the system or sound, it was never going to fly the longer term…

We’ve used tracks on a couple of certain songs, but it’s been for an “item” rather than during worship. With IEMs, we get the click track (provided by drummer’s metronome) & the MD can tell the band whether we’re doing an extra chorus or a bridge and if it’s to be all in or down. 

[xgsjx]

1 hour ago, Richard R said:

I discovered the numbers when Song Select made them an option on their chord charts, and find them really useful. I'm now learning to hear the chord changes in music as 1-4-6-5 or whatever, which gives me a map of the song onto the fretboard. And when we swap keys I don't get panicked any more!

 

I'm still a long way from jazz, but have come a long way from not even knowing which end of the bass to blow into.

For CCW, the number method is an easy way to remember things, as they only use 1, 4, 5, 6 in some order. 
Outside of it, get a key change & the number system falls on its face into sharp chippystones. 

[Richard R]

7 hours ago, xgsjx said:

For CCW, the number method is an easy way to remember things, as they only use 1, 4, 5, 6 in some order. 
Outside of it, get a key change & the number system falls on its face into sharp chippystones. 

I'm sure that's true. But then it is the Nashville system, to help C&W players strum, not a "Harlem system" for BeBop bass and horns. 😁

[SuperSeagull]

I played in our church for the first time in a few months last Sunday. Our Worship Pastor asked me to join him on a new song he had written to be used at the end of the service and to pitch up ready for a run through at 10 for the 10.30 service.  But I arrived early just as he was starting to run through the rest of the service with him playing bass so I ended up setting up in 5 mins, he switched to guitar and I played the whole set. OnSong comes into its own at times like this - I just pulled up each song from my library as we got to it and used the transpose function to get it into the right key. Helped that the drummer is class and we’ve played together a lot in the past so it went well and I enjoyed it. Just my Precision into my MB combo, nice and simple. We aren’t using IEMs at the moment either. 

[Matt P]

my church bass setup is fairly simple, we've just swapped over to IEM's so i put together a mini board just for church use, Polytune mini - Spectra comp - Vong HPF - Mooer EQ7 - EHX Bass soul food - TC Corona mini - Radial stagebug DI.

 

9 times out of 10 i take a 5 string (mostly my short scale singlecut swift) but occasionally i'll take the 77 p-bass, the u-bass or if the songs suit i'll take the Stagg EUB.

 

recently though i've been playing quite a bit of acoustic guitar (I started as a guitarist) so I take my McIlroy AS25 and run it into a T-rex soulmate.

 

we've got pretty good PA guys and they're happy to set my channel flattish and let me dial in the tone using the EQ controls of the soulmate or the pedalboard.

 

the mini pedalboard (a mooer m5 with some mods to allow me to fit everything in neatly)