Playing in Church.

[Risk101]

All set for this morning! What could possibly go wrong!!!

[Richard R]

Our service this morning took a left turn during the semon; a lot of folks then came up for prayer during the subsequent hymn and a very reflective and prayerful feeling settled acoss the whole church. Our planned final song ("Come set your rule and reign ") would have been completely inappropriate, so the WL quickly picked another. 

Unfortunately but the only thing most of us in the band picked up from his hurried  whispers was that we were doing something in A.  We each quietly joined in as and when we cottoned on or found the music, but our frantic faces must have been completely at odds with the mood in the church.

[bass_dinger]

About two years ago, I bought some kit from Thomann, including a passive DI box.  At the time, I had no need for it - all of the amps that I used had a DI built in,  and the venue that I played at had spare DI boxes. 

 

This morning the DI Out on the Ashdown wasn't working, so, I got to use my Thomann DI box.

 

I was delighted that I had the necessary kit in my equipment case (or as I should call it, my Just In Case...).

 

We also had to read music for one of the songs this morning.  The music including chromatic runs of notes, and even a written E# - so, play an F when looking at an E on the stave....

 

The guitarist (Worship Leader) did an excellent job, working out the right inversions, and kept it rhythmically straight.  Pianist was very good too. As for me, I surprised myself, and managed to play what was written  - but I shan't be buying the live album of this morning's service!

 

In other news, the vocalists wanted to change the key of one of the songs - G to E. Just as well I practice in other keys, rather than only the written or expected keys. 

 

And we had a different drummer, who seems to play more complicated and technical rhythms than I am used too - his proficiency is beyond my skill levels, but I enjoy learning how to lock in with him.

 

All that took one hour of rehearsal. 

 

All in all, a recipe for disaster, but it worked out okay.

[Dad3353]

3 hours ago, Risk101 said:

All set for this morning! What could possibly go wrong!!!

 

How's the insurance cover handled..? How long does it take for an ambulance to arrive..? Who doesn't like the singer..? What on earth can be on that mountain of bass pedals that add to the performance..? Where are the dancing girls, and how many jugglers have been booked..? Obviously the 'keys' player has no need to hear what's going on elsewhere on that football pitch of a stage. Other than that : rock on. 

 

 

[Risk101]

Ha ha!!!  v amusing - that’s my very compact pedal board 1) tuner 2) chorus, 3) Octaver and 4) fuzz/distortion. I only rarely use the latter with minimal distortion but it does add sustain for whole note bars.

 

IEM so we can all hear each other and the click - although I’m not a big fan.

 

the jugglers and dancing would be afterwards 😂😂

[LukeFRC]

So the amp and cab is prelude for show as it coordinates with the Nord?

[Richard R]

2 hours ago, Risk101 said:

IEM so we can all hear each other and the click - although I’m not a big fan

 

We practiced with a click in Friday. It's a very odd sensation.

[Owen]

I dream of playing to a click.

[Owen]

Playing to a click is actually a discipline in itself. Playing to a drum machine/Logic Drummer track is actually a lot easier.

[Risk101]

Good spot - yeah the Vanderkley & TC Staccato do blend nicely with the Nord!!  So I have the luxury of in ears and the cab to give a bit more depth/feel depending on how high the sound people let me have it !

Edited March 12, 2023 by Risk101

[LeftyP]

This morning's service is one I will remember for some time.  We are blessed by having lots of young people in our congregation.  They range from babies through all school years to college and university students - plus their parents who are in their twenties through to forties.  At 72 I am old enough to be most of our congregation's grandad!

 

We have thriving youth programmes which meet on week nights to cater for the various ages.  They attract our own young people who also bring along school friends who do not attend church on Sundays.  This morning the church was packed with about 170 people following a youth camp over the Friday and Saturday nights.  It was held at a youth centre about 40 miles away and involved silly games coupled with the message of Jesus.  The group (including non-church goers) arrived from the camp about 15 minutes before the service started and were fed tea, coffee and hot pastries.  Their parents came along to collect them and stayed in the service to find out what had gone on.

 

Our assistant pastor pitched his message just right with plenty of fun but loaded with the Gospel.  I was playing bass in the band.  We started with "How Great Thou Art" (one of my favourite old hymns) and the singing was terrific.  That set the tone for the rest of the service.  Further up this thread I posted a video of "Behold Our God" and commented that with a small band I hoped we could do it justice.  Boy did it work!  Where I was standing I could hear many male voices belting out the song and I don't mind admitting that I choked up a bit.  We see many young folk lost in a world that feeds them all kinds of lifestyles and to see a packed hall of teenagers and younger kids praising God and enjoying each other's company was very heart warming.  When it is not seen as 'cool' to attend church, having so many young men in our fellowship is encouraging.  The fact that we have many young female students may have something to do with it!

 

Playing in church is a privilege I do not take for granted and today was a blessing in more ways than one.

[Risk101]

Sounds absolutely brilliant and you are spot on - it’s a real privilege to serve in the way we do 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[bass_dinger]

On 12/03/2023 at 13:38, bass_dinger said:

This morning the DI Out on the Ashdown wasn't working, so, I got to use my Thomann DI box

In fact, the DI was fine.  

 

I had plugged the bass into the return of the effects loop, and thus bypassed the DI.

 

In my defence, the amp head was vertical rather than horizontal, to save space - and I was disoriented and used the wrong jack socket!

 

I'll get my coat....

 

EDIT. Actually, it was me who moved the amp head onto its side..... so, my fault entirely, and laughably indefensible.   I won't even try to blame someone else!!

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by bass_dinger

[Ralf1e]

Played for the church I moved to for the first time this weekend. Rehearsal on Thursday evening and two services yesteday one at 9.30 and again at 11.30.

We used the little H B Mighty 15 valve amp (shown in another thread on here) plugged into the speaker of an Ashdown EB 180 as a low level monitor and the send from the HB 15 plugged into a DI box to front of house.

They loved it. Valve warmth sent to the desk for them to eq as they need for the mix.

They have everything set up for us all to be on IEM which was a joy to have. We each have a mini mixer on our music stands.

If you check out Aylesbury Vinyard on YouTube you can see the past services and hear how the system sounds.👍

 

[Risk101]

Had a listen to this, and yeah, its nice - I guess you know there's no audio at the beginning and no bass for a while, but then the sound guy must have found the bass knob on the desk!  We (Skylark Church Chelmsford)also seem to struggle with consistency in our live-feed. Usually the vocals are far too forward/loud, bass/drums too low, so you get quite a harsh sound. This week my bass was there for the first two songs, then must have been muted !  Last week's mix was better. We need to organise some proper training and make sure the live-feed is being properly mixed as it goes out, cos it sounds fine in the auditorium.

 

Small point, but I dislike the video focussing too much on the musicians (we do the same) and I much prefer a "wide" view for the folks watching online, as its not about us it it !!

 

Looks like a Spector Euro5 you're playing there? My USA Fender Reggie Hamilton V seems to work best for live stuff, but I prefer playing my Spector NS5H2 !!

Keep up the good work !

Edited March 21, 2023 by Risk101

[Owen]

I have unilaterally stopped our music hitting YT. Getting a good mix is a lot of work for an experienced engineer, let alone a volunteer who also doing the room. And if the mix is poor you can guarantee that it is the weaker aspects which will be heard. 

[LukeFRC]

58 minutes ago, Risk101 said:

Had a listen to this, and yeah, its nice - I guess you know there's no audio at the beginning and no bass for a while, but then the sound guy must have found the bass knob on the desk!  We (Skylark Church Chelmsford)also seem to struggle with consistency in our live-feed. Usually the vocals are far too forward/loud, bass/drums too low, so you get quite a harsh sound. This week my bass was there for the first two songs, then must have been muted !  Last week's mix was better. We need to organise some proper training and make sure the live-feed is being properly mixed as it goes out, cos it sounds fine in the auditorium.

 

Small point, but I dislike the video focussing too much on the musicians (we do the same) and I much prefer a "wide" view for the folks watching online, as its not about us it it !!

 

Looks like a Spector Euro5 you're playing their? My Fender Reggie Hamilton seems to work best for live stuff, but I prefer playing my Spector NS5H2 !!

Keep up the good work !

Did skylark used to be CGC? I was born and grew up in Chelmsford 

[Risk101]

Yes mate it was indeed - maybe I know you?? I’m the bald 60ish bloke in the videos!

[Ralf1e]

8 hours ago, Risk101 said:

Had a listen to this, and yeah, its nice - I guess you know there's no audio at the beginning and no bass for a while, but then the sound guy must have found the bass knob on the desk!  We (Skylark Church Chelmsford)also seem to struggle with consistency in our live-feed. Usually the vocals are far too forward/loud, bass/drums too low, so you get quite a harsh sound. This week my bass was there for the first two songs, then must have been muted !  Last week's mix was better. We need to organise some proper training and make sure the live-feed is being properly mixed as it goes out, cos it sounds fine in the auditorium.

 

Small point, but I dislike the video focussing too much on the musicians (we do the same) and I much prefer a "wide" view for the folks watching online, as its not about us it it !!

 

Looks like a Spector Euro5 you're playing there? My USA Fender Reggie Hamilton V seems to work best for live stuff, but I prefer playing my Spector NS5H2 !!

Keep up the good work !

Thanks for the encouragement. Sorry about the missing sound at the beginning. One area I find with YT is vocals sound good in the room but always seem a bit flat on YTube

That was the first time we all played together as a band and Steven who led the worship was standing in for another guy and leading for the first time. Until this week I have only seen him playing bass. Before Thursday I didn't even know he played guitar.

So onwards and upwards.

[Risk101]

Well he’s certainly a v good guitarist and did a great job leading!

 

Yep you’re right about vocals - I agree with the OP about the hazards of livestream when the poor sound person is also mixing the room !!

 

Livestreams should probably go through some post-production (if that’s technically possible with YY?) to get them EQ’d properly!

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Risk101 said:

Well he’s certainly a v good guitarist and did a great job leading!

 

Yep you’re right about vocals - I agree with the OP about the hazards of livestream when the poor sound person is also mixing the room !!

 

Livestreams should probably go through some post-production (if that’s technically possible with YY?) to get them EQ’d properly!

our desk can do multiple levels, so different mixes for YT and the room. 
I don't think it's particularly ever used!

[Richard R]

37 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

our desk can do multiple levels, so different mixes for YT and the room. 
I don't think it's particularly ever used!

 

We now do this, one of the other FOH guys finally had the time to sort it out, and then to make it simple. It's a vast improvement for the YT. If anyone wants details I'll start another thread as it's a major derail.

One thig we do find though - when we compare a local recording of the sound sent to YT with the actual YT sound there is a definite difference. YT does some strange stuff. If we ever have the time we want to actually analyse what they do and figure out how to compensate. It's good enough now, the rest is just intellectual curiosity.

[Owen]

The real problem is that it is two different mixes happening at the same time and REALLY needs two different people doing it. We run an A&H Qu mixer (what a lovely piece of kit it is) which would enable one hardware mix in the room and one mix on the ipad in another room with isolation from the main room. This super easy until you get to the part of the equation which needs two people who are not already doing something else.

[Richard R]

2 hours ago, Owen said:

The real problem is that it is two different mixes happening at the same time and REALLY needs two different people doing it. We run an A&H Qu mixer (what a lovely piece of kit it is) which would enable one hardware mix in the room and one mix on the ipad in another room with isolation from the main room. This super easy until you get to the part of the equation which needs two people who are not already doing something else.

 

We have the same mixer - mainly because I saw yours 😄 
What we've done is to set the desk so that the post-fade mixes which go to L/R also feed individually to Group 7/8. What this means is the following: If you switch to Group 7/8 and set all the faders to 0db then Gp 7/8 will exactly track whatever changes you make to the main L/R mix. However, if you push the fader corresponding to (ooo, let's say the BASS!) up  to +10db on the Gp7/8 mix, then it's increased by 10db relative to whatever it's set to on the FOH. FOH is the same, but on YT it's now higher in the mix to compensate for the tiny speakers.  The FOH remains the master mix, but the recording/livestream/YT mix comes from the Gp 7/8 outputs.  We also include the congregation microphones on  Gp7/8, but not on L/R., and some compression and limiting so as not to overload the OBS input.  All credit to Jamie on our team who sorted this out and has put the time in to make it work. My original version was much simpler, and I intended to refine it and use the desk properly. Then someone on the other side of the world ate a dodgy bat and I got distracted. 

 

(Note for non Qu32 users. There are lots of mixes and groups on the desk. Four mono mixes Mx1-4, three stereo mixes MX 5/6, 7/8, & 9/10, plus four Groups that can either be groups or mixes. We have them all set as Mixes, and use them as foldback except for 7/8 as above.   It is a fabulous desk)

 

.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Richard R
Not all the mixes use the setup above, last week's engineer didn't. Here's one that did. Yours truly is the dork in blue behind the pillar. https://youtu.be/ix2_p0w9koE?t=54  https://youtu.be/ix2_p0w9koE?t=1317

[AlexanderJersem]

Congratulations on the opportunity to play in your church band! As a church bassist myself, I can definitely give you some pointers. One thing that's important to keep in mind is that you are there to support the music ministry and enhance the worship experience for the congregation. It's not about showing off your skills or trying to stand out. Regarding the Psalms 150:4 verse, that's a great reminder that playing music in church is a form of praise and worship. As a member of the apostolic church, we believe that music can be a powerful way to connect with God and express our devotion. So, approach your role in the church band with humility, gratitude, and a desire to serve. Best of luck and I hope you have a great experience!

Edited April 15, 2023 by AlexanderJersem