Playing in Church.

[bass_dinger]

26 minutes ago, SimonK said:

Thus said we did the classic hymn "blessed assurance" (in 9/8) and it was only by the last verse that I had worked out the whole bass line!

That's why hymns have 7 verses: 6 verses to learn the proper bassline, and the last one to get it right! 

 

Ask me how I know....

[bass_dinger]

For all my legendary grumpiness when it comes to tardy rehearsals, when I am actually playing in church,  all is well. 

 

You know that it is going well, when the congregation is louder and more musical than the band! Superb service, great gig. 

 

And a few people even recognised my bassing (by which I mean, they saw that I was playing a bass guitar). 

[Richard R]

Great hymn that!

Are you sure it's 9/8? I have been singing it, and end up in 6/8 or 12/8.  But then my sense of timing and rhythm is pretty carp!

 

[Dad3353]

7 minutes ago, Richard R said:

Great hymn that!

Are you sure it's 9/8? I have been singing it, and end up in 6/8 or 12/8.  But then my sense of timing and rhythm is pretty carp!

 

It has that typical '123223323' lilt to it, so 'Yes, it's 9/8'. 

[SimonK]

...certainly counting to nine works with the timing we did it in. RE my earlier comment, I should probably point out I pretty much nailed the root notes for each guitar chord played by the worship leader, it was just the juicy "organist" bass notes and walks that took me a couple verses to work out!

Edited June 23 by SimonK

[nilebodgers]

It’s 9/8. It’s a bit sneaky as the verse and refrain words come in on the “3” of an extra bar, so if you started counting on “Blessed..” it can look like a 12/8 bar followed by 9/8s and another 12/8 on “This is my…”.

[LukeFRC]

Randomly found this while laying in bed ill, it’s a pretty good decription to being a musician in a worship setting 

 

 

[SimonK]

Wow - I didn't know they were related - both guitar and worship leading royalty in the same family!

[LeftyP]

For the second year running we had a Church Weekend Away at a Scout/Guide centre just a 10 minute drive out of the city centre.  Set in several acres of parkland and woodland it provided a great escape from the urban scene.  Friday night kicked off with barbeque food followed by a ceilidh (had to look up how to spell that!) with the main event being on Saturday.  The centre has dormitories and plenty of room for camping which some members used.  After a year of rain the weather played ball and we had a great time outdoors.

 

Saturday morning opened with a family service with a guest speaker and we played five songs;  "How Great (Psalm 145)" -  Sovereign Grace, "Day After Day" - City Alight, "Brick After Brick", "Gracious Father Son and Spirit" and "We Are The Church".  The main hall had breeze block walls and a solid floor so the sound was well contained.  I used my 35 watt SubZero bass amp which was set at only a quarter volume.  Even then we had to turn it to face the back wall so as not to overpower the rest of the band; Cajon, Oboe, Keys, Acoustic Guitar and vocalist!

 

Lunch was served before another bible talk and then it was fun and games for the afternoon.  Try Frisbee Golf it's great fun!  An evening meal was served while some people watched the England/Switzerland match on a big screen.  My wife and I live a short drive away so we slept in our own bed that night.  Sunday morning we were back at church to sing; "Come People Of The Risen King", "Day After Day", "All Through History", "By Faith" and "In Christ Alone".  The congregation were in full voice for those!  Then it was back to the Scout/Guide Centre for a picnic lunch and more games in the sunshine.  I tried my hand at Kube which turned out to be rather addictive!  All in all it was a brilliant weekend and we got to know some members of our church much better in a relaxed and happy atmosphere.  If you haven't tried such an event I can highly recommend it.

 

[Richard R]

I am playing on Sunday, hooray!

I am staying away three days this week and I haven't picked up the bass since February.  So I need to practice in the hotel. 

 

Is this what people mean by a travel bass?

 

 

 

[bass_dinger]

On 18/06/2024 at 14:34, Nice Guy Rich said:

I just had a coffee and a chat with the Worship Team Leaders at my new church and I’ll start playing in August, when the new rota comes out.

 

I’ll be playing bass, a bit of acoustic guitar and no lead vocals 😁👍🏻 I’m a very happy person 

New rota should be out by now - how's it looking, for you?

[bass_dinger]

On 15/07/2024 at 21:09, Richard R said:

am playing on Sunday, hooray!

I am staying away three days this week and I haven't picked up the bass since February.  So I need to practice in the hotel. 

How did it go? Good practice with the little bass? How was the Sunday?

[Nice Guy Rich]

26 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

New rota should be out by now - how's it looking, for you?

I have officially joined and I’’ll be on bass, acoustic guitar, lead vocals and I’ll be a Worship Leader too 😁, the new rota is being worked on as we speak and, it starts from September.

 

I can’t wait to start playing, it’s a far better church and, the worship team is run so professionally, I’m a very happy musician 😁😁

[bass_dinger]

5 hours ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

I have officially joined and I’’ll be on bass, acoustic guitar, lead vocals and I’ll be a Worship Leader too 😁, the new rota is being worked on as we speak and, it starts from September.

 

I can’t wait to start playing, it’s a far better church and, the worship team is run so professionally, I’m a very happy musician 😁😁

It seems to me that churches with musicians end up with more musicians. 

 

That makes sense  - a lone bassist in one congregation, a drummer alone in another congregation, a violinist elsewhere, can't do anything much.  However, put them in a single church and they all benefit. 

[Richard R]

On 27/07/2024 at 11:17, bass_dinger said:

How did it go? Good practice with the little bass? How was the Sunday?

 

 

That wasn't a travel bass, it was my normal 35", with underwear, wash kit and socks packed round it plus shirts in the outside pouches, so I didn't have to take an extra bag with me. Worked rather well, plus a little combined tuner/metronome/ headphone amp in there as well.

 

Last Sunday was good, though I am very stiff-fingered and rusty! It would have been worse without the practice in the week though, just to get the left hand stretching again, but the service was good, and a few folks said it was nice to have a bass in the band again. Probably the last time this year now, though. 

 

Edited July 28 by Richard R

[Kevsy71]

Doubled on the upright and electric this morning, using a Tonedexter to take a feed from the upright pickup and make it sound like it has been mic’d  - but without the rumbling feedback when the congregation sing back at the body of the bass. Worked a charm but I forgot to use the Tonedexter boost to make the  pizzicato match the arco level. Two songs on upright, electric for two then back to upright. Swapping worked a lot better than I feared, and the bow quiver helped my ‘quick draw’ 🤠 

 

But most important : our worship lead and team are very helpful, friendly and accommodating, as were the sound team when I bowled up with a carload of kit. I made sure to let them know that the worship itself is the most important, and I would not be precious if asked to just use the (very familiar) electric, but we ended up with a great split between upright for the quieter songs and electric for the rockier. Blessed to be part of such a lovely team 😀

 

 

[SimonK]

On 27/07/2024 at 16:21, bass_dinger said:

That makes sense  - a lone bassist in one congregation, a drummer alone in another congregation, a violinist elsewhere, can't do anything much.  However, put them in a single church and they all benefit. 

 

...not if the violinist comes!

[Nice Guy Rich]

I wasn't due to start playing at my new church until September, when the next Worship Team rota came out but, I'm on bass on Sunday 18th August 😀.

 

I don't want to slag my old church off because it was the right church at that time in my faith and in my musical journey but, I have to say that my new church is far more organized, better equipped and they have a better stable of musicians and I know that I'm going to enjoy myself, God has placed me here for a reason.

 

There are some songs that the old church played that the new church don't and, vice versa so, I'm looking forward to seeing what the songs are and, starting the next chapter in my musical journey.

[bass_dinger]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

I don't want to slag my old church off

Too late, already!

 

For myself, I felt your frustration at your previous church's serial incompetence.  Even after you told them the problem, and they said that they would change, you were still mistreated. 

 

Enjoy your new setup, play bass as much as you can, and don't mind too much if it goes wrong occasionally. 

[Nice Guy Rich]

@bass_dinger I’m guilty as charged 😂 .

 

I plan to enjoy every minute of it and embrace every aspect of being in a new church.

[dmc79]

Yesterday the right earpiece of my Shure SE215 was crackling & cutting out frequently so badly in the very first song that I ended up pulling both ears out and they stayed out for the remainder of the service, as I understands it’s not good to have one earpiece in and one out. 
 

It was extremely weird to hear only the room sound through the main room speakers & subs facing away from me (silent stage) especially when some people in congregation would come in at the wrong time, like start singing a line too early. Also the volume was pretty crazy. It doesn’t seem that loud when I’m out there as 250+ voices kind of absorb everything, but up on the platform everything is so loud with my ears out. 
 

I’ll have to do some testing to figure out if it’s the earpiece itself, the earphones cable, or the male to female 3.5mm cable that we plug the earphone cable into to connect to the personal mixers. It’s incredibly annoying as on my last set of SE215 it was the left ear that crapped out. They’d had a good bit of use to be fair, but this set that replaced them isn’t even that old. I could try to find out if they’re under warranty, but I suspect it was from a bulk order the church did a few years ago. 
 

Whilst I’m doing some testing of them I plan to try the different size foam buds, as I’ve only ever used the largest 3 dot one. Has anyone else had issues with SE215 letting them down? Also I wonder if the fact we use cheap 3.5mm cables to go to the personal mixers doesn’t help. We use ‘Amazon Basics’ ones which I’m not sure is the best idea. There must be better ones out there, only recently I got the sound guy to replace mine as I was getting a hiss cutting in and out which went as soon as that cable was changed. Any recommendations for good quality 3.5mm male to female cables for this purpose? Thanks 
 

I’m tempted to try the KZ ZS10 Pro IEM as I believe it’s great for bass for the price (around £50) and is multi driver. I suspect it could still end up costing more as I’ve read that some have upgraded the cable and/or foam tips on these. Still cheaper than Shure’s multi driver IEMs though. Would appreciate any thoughts on this. 

[bass_dinger]

21 minutes ago, dmc79 said:

tempted to try the KZ ZS10 Pro IEM as I believe it’s great for bass for the price (around £50) and is multi driver. I suspect it could still end up costing more as I’ve read that some have upgraded the cable and/or foam tips on these. Still cheaper than Shure’s multi driver IEMs though. Would appreciate any thoughts on this. 

 

I have a set, via a Behringer P16 mixer. They are great for all the sounds, apart from the B string first 5 frets, when I dig in for impact.

 

At that point, the sound distorts, which limits my playing. 

 

It also struggles to block out the sound of the drums, which in my church are too close, and too loud.

 

However, everyone else finds them great to use, and I would recommend them - just not for my own application 

[LukeFRC]

highly recommend trying silicon Christmas tree type buds, I had been fighting foam ones for ages, good seal but realistically not built for what I was using it for with taking it in and out a fair bit - the Christmas trees give a good and consistent seal.  

[dmc79]

1 hour ago, bass_dinger said:

 

I have a set, via a Behringer P16 mixer. They are great for all the sounds, apart from the B string first 5 frets, when I dig in for impact.

 

At that point, the sound distorts, which limits my playing. 

 

It also struggles to block out the sound of the drums, which in my church are too close, and too loud.

 

However, everyone else finds them great to use, and I would recommend them - just not for my own application 

 

Thanks. I only play 4 strings anyway. The SE215 can distort the bass at times if I dig in, I need to keep the Tone Hammer DI tamed somewhat to keep things under control. 

 

We have an electronic drum kit, which the drummers don't like much at all, I think for what it is, it's a reasonably good one and probably quite expensive, but there's nothing like a proper acoustic drum kit. We've had all sorts of issues with the electronic kit - swapping cables in and out to troubleshoot faults, guest drummer uses kit & changes all the sounds, then regular drummers have to fiddle about to get a sound they like, etc. It brings a mountain of problems compared to the simplicity of a real kit. The only advantage I sort of get with the rubber pad kit is the ability to manage the volume of it, but just stick a proper kit in a booth and it should solve that anyway. I'm not a drum expert but I think there's misconception amongst a lot of church goers, pastors, etc, that drums are LOUD, 100% of the time, and it's most certainly not the case, if you factor in drummers not just using sticks but the likes of brushes, hot rods, etc, volume can always be tamed for the gentler stuff anyway. And for the louder stuff, well that's what screens / booths are for. Anyway, that's another issue entirely, but boy do I miss playing with a real kit. 

 

Thanks for the KZ ZS10 Pro recommendation. Did you or any of your team upgrade the cable, foam tips, etc? 

 

 

58 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

highly recommend trying silicon Christmas tree type buds, I had been fighting foam ones for ages, good seal but realistically not built for what I was using it for with taking it in and out a fair bit - the Christmas trees give a good and consistent seal.  

 

Thanks for this. It's funny, I've had the foam tips on my SE215 from the start as I gathered they were better for fit, feel & isolation, yet I've stuck with the standard round silicone tips for my own listening at home, which I do on Shure SE112 earphones. These entry level Shure earphones are way better than any Sennheisers I've had at a similar price, but not as good as the SE215 as you'd expect - they are half the price. We generally keep our SE215s in a box at church - we were encouraged to do that when we went IEM, I guess so nobody could turn up then say that they'd forgotten to bring them, and/or so people wouldn't wear them out using them a lot at home when the church had paid for them. Now I mostly do take mine home, but only to help with bass practice as I can plug them into my practice amp. I never forget to bring them to church as they're always in my backpack with my pedalboard & cables, etc. I'd get a set of SE215 for my home listening if I thought they were more reliable, but having seen 2 sets have an earbud crap out, I couldn't keep throwing another £100 at home earphones every time that happens, so I make do with the SE112. 

 

Back to the earphone tips - I've always felt that the round silicone ones want to slip out regardless of me trying different sizes, are never that comfy, and don't offer much isolation. I've got a bag full of spare round silicone tips from various Sony & Sennheiser earphones I've had over the years, but I'm really going off them having used foam tips in the Shure SE215 IEMs. I will definitely try the foam tips on my SE112 for home listening. Then I'll probably throw out all my spare silicone tips. That said, I'd be interested in trying the triple / christmas tree silicone tips you mention. I've never tried them. I know what you mean with fighting foam if you're taking them in and out a bit. Our worship leader will deliberately speak into the mic during practice so we don't have to remove our earbuds, but if anyone else around you in the band or a random person nearby wants to take to me, I have to take them out which is pretty annoying. Is there a particular triple silicone tip you can recommend, that fits with both Shure & KZ ZS10 Pro? 

 

I plugged in my SE215 at home earlier and the right earbud is definitely cutting out, so I can rule out the 3.5mm earphones to mixer cable anyway, though I do think we should upgrade these at some point. I'll mention it to the sound guys and see if I can have a new set, or see if I can talk them into getting me a set of KZ ZS10 Pro for half the price. I think the SE215 sound pretty good, but for £100+ I'd expect them to be more durable. I went to try the different foam tip sizes earlier (I've always used the large ones), and mistakenly thought I'd mislaid the medium (2 dot) size ones, looking at the contents it appears they come with S, M & L sizes in silicone, but strangely only Small (1 dot) and Large (3 dot) in foam, so no chance to try the Medium (2 dot) in foam. Might try and find some online, as going from large to small seems like one extreme to the other - though I do prefer the small to the large, I'd like to at least try the medium. 

[Nice Guy Rich]

I played for the first time in my new church, I was on bass and it went brilliantly.  The whole set-up is professionally run and it was a pleasure to be part of it, I’m on bass this Sunday too.

 

I plugged into a pedal board that the church supply, I haven’t touched the settings, this is how I found it.

 

@dmc79 I used my KZ ZS10 Pro IEM’s for the first time and I loved them, excellent bass response and all round great sound, I would definitely recommend them.