Playing in Church.

[dmc79]

Sorry, don't mean to take over the thread today, but I figure this stuff is helpful for any of us who use IEMs anyway. I just realised that I've been using the medium silicone tips on my SE112 for home listening (and large foam for SE215 at church), it's a shame that the SE215 set doesn't include the 2 dot medium size foam tip as I'd like to try a foam one in that size, and I can't seem to find anywhere to buy a single set of those to try, only £20 for 3 sets. I'm quite happy with the Shure foam tips though and can't imagine wanting to use round silicone ones again. I might try the triple flange 'christmas tree' silicone ones though, but I'd prefer them to be any colour but white, which the Shure ones are. 

 

I've read that the 'Comply Foam' tips are good for IEMs. I just perused their UK site and these are the recommended tips for Shure SE, that would work on both my 215 & 112 sets:

 

Isolation Series - 200 Core, £15 

Isolation Series - 100 Core, £20 

Comfort Series - 100 Core, £20 

Professional Series (P), £18 

 

All prices are for 3 sets of tips. Can anyone particularly recommend any of those? They are about the same price as the Shure SE ones, except probably cheaper overall as Comply Foam says they offer free UK postage.

 

I see there is also the Sonicfoam SF3 to fit both Shure sets, these are £14 for 10 sets, good value but almost seems too cheap. Can anyone vouch for these?

 

I can't wait to ditch round silicone tips on my SE112 home set, I used to love listening to music late at night through earphones, then got increasingly annoyed with silicone buds working loose & sound escaping because of not getting a good seal, to the point where I hardly ever play music through earphones in bed anymore, but I'd like to do it more if I can sort through these issues. 

 

Thanks. 

 

Edited August 19 by dmc79

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, dmc79 said:

Is there a particular triple silicone tip you can recommend, that fits with both Shure & KZ ZS10 Pro? 

No - I think it was generic eBay Christmas tree tips or something! You obviously have to get the size that fits your headphones, I have Ultimate Ears IEM

 

something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395282265483?_nkw=flange+earbud+tips&itmmeta=01J5NK9H44AERHJF9VJE4YYJ92&hash=item5c08a8b58b:g:CVYAAOSw5hFl-oi4&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmN84aHliWa1wZ89WeaY58zEEtgF7%2F4%2FpZr1K2RMYgXGffZtZ0vwVdzvxmwSTGeJqXLZ4pIUTJW1NZZIYup%2BBQ0X4dgOY9VwCWvj%2FbsZ4TP8V5eLE1iQQ%2BPcuhtsrWH%2F0eR6MXSP7uDmccwOVxwcAnku%2BlXrVbqcy1SldyxUACsJFLUXak8TTP0qEPtIvIv%2FFh4RUMuEbuvNQ2SoQzWS76IW8335QrxTuUb1C3QPbgf9os0MRIBSiWx8UoYPza3510%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5aSprOtZA 

 

you will also notice the price difference to comply. With regular cleaning 've used the same set for 3-4 years now. I would use up a set of comply tips in 2 Sundays 

[bass_dinger]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

I played for the first time in my new church, I was on bass and it went brilliantly.  The whole set-up is professionally run and it was a pleasure to be part of it, I’m on bass this Sunday too.

< snip >

 

 

@Nice Guy Rich looking at your facial expression, I would say that you are wearing what amounts to A Bassist's Smile! Well done for making the move, and for landing in a smaller band too - always my own preference.

 

 

[dmc79]

Ordered a mixed size set of Comply Foam 'Isolation Series 100 Core' tips. Like I said, I wanted to try a Shure SE black foam tip in medium (2 dot) but it looked like I had to buy a pack of 6 of them, which is rather silly if I find the size doesn't work for me. But then perhaps it's almost equally silly to buy a mixed size pack, to find I don't use the 2 sizes that don't fit as well as the 1 that does! 

 

Oh well, at least I'll be able to give each of the small, medium & large size foam tips a good go, whilst trying the Comply tips at the same time. Once I've figured out which size works best, I can just order a 3 pack of those when I need some more, in either Shure or Comply. Or I could get more for my money with Sonicfoams, I'm just not sure how good they'd be at those prices (10 sets for £14), in terms of isolation, fit & feel. 

 

I've been meaning to do this for ages, so I just did a comparison of silicone vs foam tips on both sets of Shures, and found as expected I far prefer foam tips. I'm not sure why I put up with silicone tips on my home earphones for so long, when I've been using foam tips on the church IEMs for some time. Silicone ones always feel like they want to slip out regardless of size, they come out so easily compared to foam, which just stays put much better. Foam gives a better seal, I don't need to keep pushing them back into place like I do with silicone, and everything just sounds much fuller because the seal is improved. As part of the test, I deliberately tried to gently pull them out of my ears, just the slightest tug on them and the silicone ones were out, whereas there was some resistance from the foam, they simply wanted to stay put. Also I dislike how tiny the sound hole (not sure if there's a more technical name for this!) is on the silicone tips, particularly on the grey Shure ones.

 

The other thing I did during the test was to move my head & jaw about a bit (kind of replicating the head movements of when I play music through earphones lying down in bed) . . . the seal on the silicones was either loosened considerably or they simply popped right out, and again the foam ones stayed put. One of my absolute pet hates is how silicone tips are always coming loose if I try and listen to music late at night in bed, I end up giving up after a few songs as it totally spoils my enjoyment when the sound goes mega thin because the seal is broken. I saw no reason after this test to ever bother with the round silicone tips again and have thrown them out. Maybe one day I'll try the triple flange silicones, but for now I'm happy with foam tips. 

 

[TrevorR]

7 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

highly recommend trying silicon Christmas tree type buds, I had been fighting foam ones for ages, good seal but realistically not built for what I was using it for with taking it in and out a fair bit - the Christmas trees give a good and consistent seal.  

I was going to say exactly the same. Not quite as comfy as comply foam but rock solid and really secure seal. I use these with my 215s (which I use for my MP3 player, not as IEMs).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00275F2GS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[LukeFRC]

3 hours ago, TrevorR said:

I was going to say exactly the same. Not quite as comfy as comply foam but rock solid and really secure seal. I use these with my 215s (which I use for my MP3 player, not as IEMs).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00275F2GS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yeah - not comparable to normal silicon ones @dmc79 - have a go 

[Risk101]

A very happy KZ user here. Had mine about 4 years with no issues apart from replacing the cable after 2 years of being twisted all over the place. I plug it into a 3m extension cable to give me more room to move around!

 

interested in the foam v silicone debate as I’ve always much preferred silicone and couldn’t get on with fiddling with foam. Took a while to get the right size/fit though. As others have said a good snug fit transforms the sound for bass. No distortion using my 5 string basses👍🏻

[TrevorR]

14 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

Yeah - not comparable to normal silicon ones @dmc79 - have a go 

Yes, they go so far down the ear canal that they’re not going to edge out and/or break the seal! Really helps the bass response too.

[SimonK]

Well that was sobering -  being very much of the "more is more" attitude when it comes to gear I raised my eyebrows when our worship leader decided he wanted to "go electric" last night with an Ibanez AS10 (essentially Gibson ES335 alike) into a tiny Vox MV50 micro-head, running the headphone out into his normal DI. No effects, little bit of crunch on the guitar - and it sounded brilliant!

 

I had been busy telling him that running a headphone out from a micro-head into a DI box would sound rubbish and he needed to borrow one of my somewhat more expensive amps and then mic the cab, but after a quick google it seem the Vox has: "...an all-analogue pre-amp circuit that features Nutube, a revolutionary new vacuum tube that produces authentic tube tone at a fraction of the size... Vox’s design team consulted with highly experienced recording engineers and used only the finest microphones and vintage pre-amps to design the cabinet simulation circuit in the MV50." - and it works!

 

Luckily Vox doesn't do an equivalent bass amp before our sound guys get any ideas...

Edited August 24 by SimonK

[GoodShowSir]

Wow that is interesting! It's suprising how good some stuff can sound these days.  For christmas I got the VOX amplug3 for bass, its surprising how good that sounds, I read a lot of people just take the 3.5mm phones output to record from. Don't let your sound guys know

 

 

[SimonK]

1 hour ago, GoodShowSir said:

Wow that is interesting! It's suprising how good some stuff can sound these days.  For christmas I got the VOX amplug3 for bass, its surprising how good that sounds, I read a lot of people just take the 3.5mm phones output to record from. Don't let your sound guys know

 

 

 

Vox does seem to be doing very well with this micro technology. I have the Vox AC30 headphones that work pretty well as a guitar practice tool with both dirt and some basic effects built into them (I think they are essentially an amplug in headphone format), although the lack of blue tooth connectivity means it is a faff to play with a backing track.

 

RE the MV50, from a worship leaders perspective it seems ever so convenient as it gives just one really quite good sound with only three controls (gain, tone & volume), meaning that it is only a tiny bit more complicated than a DI box, and can just sit next to it on the stage taking up little space. A smidgeon of reverb from the desk and it made a nice change from the normal acoustic. I think for playing electric "properly" it wouldn't work as well given it is single channel, no reverb and no effects loop - which is probably the basis for my prejudice!

[SimonK]

Snuck this into this mornings service 🤘

 

[Nice Guy Rich]

@SimonK Snuck?  How did nobody notice? 😂 

[Rosie C]

1 hour ago, SimonK said:

Snuck this into this mornings service 🤘

 

 

Using a fork-lift?  

[SimonK]

48 minutes ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

@SimonK Snuck?  How did nobody notice? 😂 

 

Our worship leader is blind - he said something sounded different with the bass this morning... I also caught the eye of one of our guitarists who was in the congregation and gave me a thumbs up and a big grin!

[bass_dinger]

1 hour ago, SimonK said:

Snuck this into this mornings service 🤘

 

 

I am trying to work out the scale.  Surely it must be a dinky little 4×8" combo and a 4×6" cab? 

 

Because if it's a 4×12" combo and a 4×10" cab, then it's a weapons-grade set-up - and "how firm a foundation " is no longer the first line of a hymn, but a description of your playing!

 

Well done  - next week, a 2×15" cab too?

[bass_dinger]

I played acoustic guitar in church this morning, for the first time in 25 years.

 

To my utter surprise, it was okay. Better than okay - it was fun.  I had positive comments from others in the band, and was told that I added to the music. 

 

I played second guitar - so, me on capo 7 or capo 5, with the other guitar on capo 0.

 

I might try again - certainly I was not discouraged.

[SimonK]

37 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

 

I am trying to work out the scale.  Surely it must be a dinky little 4×8" combo and a 4×6" cab? 

 

Because if it's a 4×12" combo and a 4×10" cab, then it's a weapons-grade set-up - and "how firm a foundation " is no longer the first line of a hymn, but a description of your playing!

 

Well done  - next week, a 2×15" cab too?

 

The perspective of the picture has done weird things as in total it is 8x10, with all the speakers the same size - I had it on volume 1! I do also have a 1x15 cab... but if I added that it would stand well over 6 feet tall! Mind you I only had this rig to test the bottom cab which I picked up a couple days ago. It will be back to the normal 4x10 as of next week (which manages a princely 3 on the master volume!).

[Dad3353]

4 hours ago, SimonK said:

Snuck this into this mornings service 🤘

 

 

Some medieval architects foresaw the problems that ecclesiastic music could cause, and built in consequence...

 

 

...others, less so...

 

[bass_dinger]

3 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Some medieval architects foresaw the problems that ecclesiastic music could cause, and built in consequence...

 

 

...others, less so...

 

 

Even Mrs Dinger laughed, and she isn't on Basschat!

[bass_dinger]

Played again this morning  - by my reckoning I have played 7 times in the last 8 Sundays, and I am rather enjoying it. 

 

Back to bass this morning, with a guitarist/vocalist, a young drummer with whom I hadn't played with in a service, and a young keyboardist playing string pads. Another vocalist completed the lineup.

 

So, I had a lot of licence to fill space, by adding in movement  - I was literally told to "noodle" in the first few verses.  In other songs, I was holding down the beat - 8th notes, with the two-and and four-and missed out, to avoid sounding like Mr Brightside. 

 

My wife tells me that it sounded like a party - very gratifying to hear that. 

 

Great stuff - I felt that I had something to add, whether driving the song, or adding texture and atmosphere to the songs.  Great fun too - I can metaphorically detach myself from the instrument, and listen to the congregation. 

 

 

Edited September 8 by bass_dinger

[Richard R]

56 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

Played again this morning  - by my reckoning I have played 7 times in the last 8 Sundays, and I am rather enjoying it. 

 

Excellent!  Worship as a party is good. 🥳

 

By contrast- I spent this morning sat in the congregation,  dog tired from last week and a bad night's sleep,  just listening to the band rock and hearing in my head the bass lines I wish had the time or the energy to have added.  C'est la vie for the time being, more fun times will come around eventually. 

 

 

 

[Rosie C]

I too had a bad night's sleep - and woke up early all wired and stressy. But all swept away with today's service. We had a full church for a baptism, and the hymns were chosen to appeal to younger members of the congregation:  All Things Bright & Beautiful, Onward Christian Soldiers Pilgrims, and "Thanks for the Fellowship", to the tune of the Skye Boat Song. I learned all the bass parts, but with only two of us in the band today, and such nice tunes I played octave-mandolin instead, along with the piano. 

[LeftyP]

I was playing bass this morning to a packed church - it was standing room only which is why we are looking for a larger building.  We only did four songs; "Praise To The Lord The Almighty", Our God Is A Great Big God", "All People That On Earth Do Dwell" and "O God Beyond All Praising".  The last one is to a tune by Gustaf Holst from his Planet Suite.  There really wasn't much I could do with the tunes so I just stuck to root notes.  The result was very affective and the congregation responded with gusto!  I usually try to put in some fills and approach notes but today proved that less can be more.  I enjoy playing the bass and always try to be innovative without going over the top but just sticking to the root notes for every chord change let the songs breathe.  The band sounded tight and it was a pleasure to be part of it.  To top it off our pastor gave a great message before we all had tea and cake!  Roll on next time.

[SimonK]

11 hours ago, LeftyP said:

I was playing bass this morning to a packed church - it was standing room only which is why we are looking for a larger building.  We only did four songs; "Praise To The Lord The Almighty", Our God Is A Great Big God", "All People That On Earth Do Dwell" and "O God Beyond All Praising".  The last one is to a tune by Gustaf Holst from his Planet Suite.  There really wasn't much I could do with the tunes so I just stuck to root notes.  The result was very affective and the congregation responded with gusto!  I usually try to put in some fills and approach notes but today proved that less can be more.  I enjoy playing the bass and always try to be innovative without going over the top but just sticking to the root notes for every chord change let the songs breathe.  The band sounded tight and it was a pleasure to be part of it.  To top it off our pastor gave a great message before we all had tea and cake!  Roll on next time.

 

It's worth holding onto the good services as for me they are certainly not every week!

 

We tend to use "Our God is a Great big God" in children's services which gives the opportunity to put in a twelve bar blues walking bassline often alongside an OTT guitar solo - about the only time we can get away with that on a Sunday! With hymns like the latter two, rather than playing root notes, I sometimes dig out the old organ music as they have some awesomely crunchy bass lines that would never normally occur to me, them being classical musicians an' all.