Playing in Church.

[dmc79]

4 hours ago, Sardonicus said:

the Elders of my church decided to change things around (without consulting us)

Oh boy. This sounds extremely familiar; the opinions of the people who actually play and sing the songs tossed aside in favour of decisions being made by the ‘powers that be’ who generally don’t have a musical bone in their body

 

[bass_dinger]

4 hours ago, Sardonicus said:

 🤦🏻‍♂️,   WTF were they thinking?

 

I guess that they were not thinking, but acting. 

 

It's the sort of solution that works for employers  - they give people money for their time, and can decide what specific  role someone should fulfil. However,  it does not work well where the teams are volunteers, and the leadership is relying on goodwill. 

 

For me, the test is whether the leadership are taking responsibility for their decision.  Do they turn up to the rehearsals, and give guidance to the bassist? Do they discipline and advise those who do not practice? Do they give people in the band authority to make those same decisions?

 

I have often thought how I would respond in a similar such situation.  I hope that I would be able to thank the leaders for allowing me to serve, and tell them that I am happy to make space on the rota for the new talents that the leaders have identified. That's a polite way of saying that I am leaving, but making clear that it is their responsibility to fix the issue that they have caused. 

 

PS - WTF? When Talent Fades?

 

 

[bass_dinger]

1 hour ago, dmc79 said:

Oh boy. This sounds extremely familiar; the opinions of the people who actually play and sing the songs tossed aside in favour of decisions being made by the ‘powers that be’ who generally don’t have a musical bone in their body

 

I have heard of whole bands leaving a church because of mishandled sensitivities.

 

In fact, half of the structure of our band is built with the rubble of other churches cast-offs.

 

It's sad. I am comforted by the knowledge that these things happen in phases.  For a few years, my church has a reasonable band, but soon we will have different leaders who will want to do things differently. Soon, it will be @Sardonicusturn to play in a better band - perhaps even in his own church!

 

 

 

[Sardonicus]

We have a Grade 5 pianist in our congregation, we’ve been trying to get her to play but she flatly refuses because of bad experiences in other worship teams.  She must watch us and get flashbacks 😂.

 

At the end of the day, I’m happy to serve God where He sees fit but, I still want to enjoy it.

[Richard R]

I have to admit, I would down tools and explain to the church elders why. Though that may not be helpful or make finding a solution any easier.

 

Instead, take care and speak softly,  even when telling hard truths. I'll pray for you and your church.

[Sardonicus]

@Richard R Your prayers worked, my request for more bass weeks has been granted. I did have 10 Sunday’s on acoustic guitar but, now I’ve got 5 on acoustic and 5 on bass 😄, Sardonicus is happy.

 

I’m happy to serve where I’m needed but I still want to enjoy it.

[Bunion]

On 20/08/2022 at 15:18, Sardonicus said:

the Elders of my church decided to change things around (without consulting us) 

You sure Simon cowell isn’t heading them up?   😄

[bass_dinger]

Just now, Bunion said:

You sure Simon cowell isn’t heading them up?   😄

"Day 7,976 in the Big Brother Church. Let's see how Sardonicus gets on with the new bassist..."

 

On 21/08/2022 at 08:26, Richard R said:

Instead, take care and speak softly,  even when telling hard truths. I'll pray for you and your church.

 

A hard conversation to have, but worth doing, if you have not already done so.

Not just about more days on bass, but about the way in which the leaders run the worship. 

 

 

I have been impressed by your patience,  your commitment to the role, and your passion to do it right.  If you gave up now, I would still think highly of you. 

 

[Sardonicus]

@bass_dinger Thank you for your kind words.  I won’t quit because I love playing and I love serving God however, when my time does come to step down, it’ll be because I want to and never because I feel compelled to.

[oldslapper]

I found the type of church I used to belong to to have a weird dynamic when it came to those given responsibility for running the show and the rest of us who paid their salary.

 

They are often managing a whole system built on the good-will of volunteers. 

The problem I found was that managing volunteers is a skill set in itself, very different from managing paid employees with job descriptions and employment rights. 
Add into that they are often untrained (and often unaccountable) in human resource management and healthy communication skills. 
The power and authority they are given comes from the people (despite the rhetoric about it coming from “on high”). Without the will of those they direct, their job is impossible. 
The dynamic can get awkward when they are directing volunteers in tasks that the said volunteers are professionals, or more experienced in than themselves. 
I found it all very odd and disturbing on occasion. Having said that I have met one or two “leaders” that have been humble enough to see their role as carers and shepherds and not CEOs. 
Haven’t been to church for years, so I’m sure things are very different now. At least I hope so. 
And at the end of the day most people are trying their best and don’t always get it right. Peace 🙏

[xgsjx]

Our church has a Team Night on the last Thursday of the month.  It’s a get together for all the worship team & they introduce a new song at it.  So the musicians & singers have to learn this song for the Thursday, which would be no big deal, but as per usual, the song isn’t announced until Monday evening & then they let you know the key & upload the chord chart on the Tuesday (today).  So most of the folk have no time to listen to it, let alone learn it. 

I really don’t get why this is left so late?  It’s not like it relies on anything.  Why can’t they pick a song at the start of the month?

[Sardonicus]

@xgsjx The struggle is real and I feel your pain.  We rehearse on Friday evenings and once, someone (not me) released the songs at 11:45pm on Thursday night.

 

We have 6 weeks off over the Summer holidays because so many people are away on holiday etc, my next Sunday to play is September 11th and I have already picked the songs. 

[xgsjx]

1 hour ago, Sardonicus said:

@xgsjx The struggle is real and I feel your pain.  We rehearse on Friday evenings and once, someone (not me) released the songs at 11:45pm on Thursday night.

 

We have 6 weeks off over the Summer holidays because so many people are away on holiday etc, my next Sunday to play is September 11th and I have already picked the songs. 

My church don’t have any rehearsals other than for about 15 mins prior to worship. The majority of folk just wing it (which as almost all worship songs sound the same, it’s easy to do). 
The Sunday set usually gets sent out the Wednesday or Thursday just before, though it’s been as late as Saturday morning.

They’re really unorganised & there’s no reason for it. 

[Ralf1e]

On 02/01/2020 at 10:07, oldslapper said:

As @MacDaddy has pointed out, the building will be a big factor.

 Couple of other things to be aware of, based on my experience a few years ago.

Congregation demographic can influence what is tolerated volume and frequency-wise. I played in one church where the bass might as well have been silent as the congregation didn’t like the “frequency”. 

Older Keyboard players can often have a classical background and will be used to “taking care” of bass lines with their left hand. So I would often politely have to ask them to move their left hand to the right, before I taped it behind their back.

However, It can be a good opportunity to develop your improv and listening skills as there are very few ready written parts, mostly chord charts. If it’s a gospel style church.... then I envy you, great bass lines to develop!

Usually an encouraging environment, depending on the BL, but keep listening to the BL during the “set” and most of all be nice to work with.

Oh yeah, always play fretless 

psalm 37: “do not fret....”

Things may be different these days of course as it’s been a long time since I visited a church let alone played in one. But either way, it’s nice that you have jumped at the opportunity, shows an enthusiasm and motivation to be part of things.

Cheers

John 

 

I played in one church where two people in the congregation were adamant that the guitar coming out of the P A was far to loud. On closer investigation it turned out we had forgotten to switch it on. True not a joke.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Ralf1e

[timbo1978]

Just came across this thread and it's like therapy for me 🤣

 

I've been playing in church worship groups for 25 years with a few Christian bands thrown in for good measure. I've had everything from an American full time worship leader to the current regime of turning up half and hour before to have a run through. 

 

I'd definitely say additional practice pays off, but that is only possible if band members are committed and enthusiastic. 

 

I would also say this isn't just church related. I played in a jazz trio that did background stuff and there was no interest in rehearsing or taking the time to learn new songs. I left for that reason as it became really repetitive.

[Ralf1e]

On 23/10/2020 at 14:41, Kevsy71 said:

I'd absolutely love to do gospel sets - for one thing I'd have a stone-cold excuse to get a Ken Smith 5 again! I suspect gospel players are never told 'sit this out until the chorus, and don't go North of the 5th fret'

The Gospel church I serve at bought me in "to make a groove" as Mr Wooten might say. The icing on the cake is at 69 years I am the oldest member they have ever had and at the moment the only white man with the exception of my lovely wife.

I do use 5 strings and I do use alot of the fretboard especially to play laterally from around the 7th fret or there abouts. They love it loud and pounding so they can get down and dance before the Lord.

[Ralf1e]

On 24/10/2020 at 19:14, LeftyP said:

I find much of the contemporary Christian music bland and predictable but the songs produced by Sovereign Grace and EMU fill the bill very well.  To me, black Gospel is very wearing and over-the-top.  The same line, or even word, yelled over and over just leaves me cold.  Of course, a lot depends on the culture of the church members, some of whom may not feel confident in their singing.

We should also remember that, in church, we are there to enable the congregation to worship.  We are not "putting on a show" or backing professional singers.  I would argue that providing a subtle foundation for a song is more important than showing off your latest licks and takes just as much skill as filling every bar with as many notes as possible.  Don Moen has a good video on YouTube about 'overplaying' on worship songs.

 

Love this video. I have sent it to our Wattsap chior group several times and I believe it has helped tame the zeal of the drummers especially.

[Ralf1e]

On 25/10/2020 at 06:47, LukeFRC said:

You should own a P bass at least once in your life!

I’m pretty Sure that’s in the bible too

Oh dear is it really in the Bible? Thats me in trouble then. Always said I will never buy a P bass.

But I do have 3 G&L Legacy basses. Two 4's and one 5

Definitely won't buy a P bass now I own them lol

[LukeFRC]

54 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

Oh dear is it really in the Bible? Thats me in trouble then. Always said I will never buy a P bass.

But I do have 3 G&L Legacy basses. Two 4's and one 5

Definitely won't buy a P bass now I own them lol

Which type of G&L? L1000 are like the the new covenant version of a p bass anyway 

[Richard R]

1 hour ago, Ralf1e said:

The Gospel church I serve at bought me in "to make a groove" as Mr Wooten might say. 

... 

They love it loud and pounding so they can get down and dance before the Lord.

Right, lads. We all need to organise a Sunday School trip to Buckinghamshire!

 

1 hour ago, Ralf1e said:

the only white man with the exception of my lovely wife

Err.... are you sure about that sentence?

[Ralf1e]

59 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Which type of G&L? L1000 are like the the new covenant version of a p bass anyway 

Legacy 2000 and Legacy 2500

[Ralf1e]

16 minutes ago, Richard R said:

Right, lads. We all need to organise a Sunday School trip to Buckinghamshire!

 

Err.... are you sure about that sentence?

No not in the slightest now I have read your comment.

I think the word I was looking for was person oops

[Ralf1e]

On 18/07/2022 at 17:52, bass_dinger said:

Stairway to Heaven.

 

Thank you.  I'm here all week...

 

 

I think of it as musical exercise - if I can play Led Zeppelin, ABBA, Stevie Wonder, Chic, and Bach, then I will be able to manage whatever else I am asked to play. 

 

However, if all that I can play is Hillsong 4-chord songs, then the music will sound very samey. 

 

 

Whatever you listen to and whatever you play feeds your mind. This is why nearly all secular music and churches like Hillsong are spoken against by radical teachers.

Kind of "you are what you eat" for your ears.

I destroyed all my valuable rock, blues and non Christian records, cd's and tapes etc years ago.

I'm not saying it is for all but let me put it this way. 

Would you read the satanic bible?

Yet we can find ourselves listening to anti Christian influenced media everywhere. Even piped radio music in the workplace is full of garbage that is brainwashing people into dangerous territory.

For the record I have never played outside of a church band and have also turned down playing in church for money. I serve my Lord for love not money. It is a privilege to serve Gods people in that way.

Not meaning to rant but please, please do consider what you are feeding your mind and spring clean your life from time to time and you WILL be blessed.

[Sibob]

19 minutes ago, Ralf1e said:

 

...please do consider what you are feeding your mind and spring clean your life from time to time...

 

I appreciate you caring, and I would offer the same advice back to you 

 

Si

[bass_dinger]

1 hour ago, Ralf1e said:

Whatever you listen to and whatever you play feeds your mind. This is why nearly all secular music and churches like Hillsong are spoken against by radical teachers.

Kind of "you are what you eat" for your ears.

I destroyed all my valuable rock, blues and non Christian records, cd's and tapes etc years ago.

I'm not saying it is for all but let me put it this way. 

Would you read the satanic bible?

Yet we can find ourselves listening to anti Christian influenced media everywhere. Even piped radio music in the workplace is full of garbage that is brainwashing people into dangerous territory.

For the record I have never played outside of a church band and have also turned down playing in church for money. I serve my Lord for love not money. It is a privilege to serve Gods people in that way.

Not meaning to rant but please, please do consider what you are feeding your mind and spring clean your life from time to time and you WILL be blessed.

A timely reminder. 

 

I do tend to think of worship songs as being music with words attached when it should be the other way round.