Playing in Church.

[Richard R]

It's very true that what you listen to, read, watch, etc. will naturally have an influence on what you think, believe, and do. A catchy phrase in a song or book gets stuck, even if the sentiment is contrary to what you actually believe. 

 

For a semon illustration ages ago I once stacked up all the books I had read so far that year into two piles, secular and Christian. The secular pile was at least 10x the height of the Christian (though I did deliberately pick a thin bible). I still read way more secular than Christian, but am conscious of what I read.

I practically never listen to worship music outside of practice as it just doesn't move or interest me unless sung live. There are undoubtedly good Christian artists playing music to listen to, though right only Bryn Haworth springs to mind. So as with reading, I listen to a lot of secular stuff, but am conscious of what the words say.

 

[LukeFRC]

5 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

 

Kind of "you are what you eat" for your ears.

I destroyed all my valuable rock, blues and non Christian records, cd's and tapes etc years ago.

I'm not saying it is for all but let me put it this way. 

Would you read the satanic bible?

No, but if you were trying to write something you might study Shakespeare to learn how language is formed. 
If I was using visual art to communicate of course I could learn from church traditions going back to icons, pietas, the Dutch vanitas painting… but I would probably also look at things since 1800 from a non church based setting!! There’s a big gap in my knowledge if I don’t understand modernism, postmodernism and can’t understand the culture art exists in.

I think the same is true with music.

 

There’s two differences in how I would approach it.

I don’t think dividing things into sacred and secular works - either personally, theologically or in art. There’s this big bit in the middle of life that is just life and is neither anti God or pro God. I have a spade in my shed, it’s neither sacred nor secular - I could use it to grow veg and give the veg to the hungry, or hit someone on the head with it and bury the body. 
 

The other thing is that culture is the language that society communicates through, both consciously and unconscionasly, and depending on your pov for both better and worse. If the book says “be in, but not of” I don’t know how to do that if I don’t understand the same cultural language. 

[xgsjx]

I choose to listen to just about every genre of music. I think God has given me enough wisdom to choose wisely. Today I listened to Talking Heads - 77 & then Mitski - Be The Cowboy. Both fantastic albums & both musically far better than anything by Hillsong, Bethel or Elevation. 
Neither are about God, but nor are they about Satan or even about falling away from God. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by xgsjx

[oldslapper]

“To think that God is only in what is produced by the church, is one of the greatest deceptions”. 
 

[TrevorR]

On 24/08/2022 at 07:22, Ralf1e said:

I played in one church where two people in the congregation were adamant that the guitar coming out of the P A was far to loud. On closer investigation it turned out we had forgotten to switch it on. True not a joke.

That anecdote puts me in mind of an incident with a former worship leader who, how shall we put it, could have done well brushing up his person management, team leading and tech skills…

 

We were rehearsing for a service and our usual very very good sound tech (as in ‘having engineered for artists like Queen, Steve’s Hackett & Howe, Gary Moore and OMD’ good) was away. The very junior sound guy was running sound. Anyway, we started having this huge low end resonance on certain songs and chords. The WL turned to me and said, “Trevor, your bass is way too loud. Can you turn it down.” I said, “I don’t think it’s the bass is the issue, I think it’s the acoustic guitar getting close to feeding back.” “Just turn it down!” “OK.” So I turned down my amp a bit even though I knew it was nothing to do with the problem.

 

Next song… huge blooming notes. He turned round. “Trevor, I said turn down.” “I really think you should check out if the guitar monitors and check they’re not too loud.” He watched me turn down and then it happened again. He turned back round visibly annoyed now and hissed “I said turn your amp down!!!” I could barely hear the bass now and knew what would happen next so while he fussed with his keyboard and grumbled to the singers I very calmly and quietly switched off my amp, unplugged the amp from the extension socket, unplugged my bass, put it on the stand, coiled up my lead and put it on the floor in front of the bass. All the time the drummer was looking at me like “What on earth’s going on?” I just smiled back, put my hands in my pockets and stepped away from my gear. The song resumed. Lo and behold, big low end bloom… the WL spun round, furious, and yelled, “FOR GOODNESS SAKE TREVOR WILL YOU JUST TURN DOWN LIKE I TOL…” I smiled sweetly at him and said, “You really want to check that the acoustic guitar monitor isn’t too loud, that there isn’t too much gain on the channel input and that the EQ isn’t messed up…”

 

I was in no way sad when he moved on a number of months later to inflict his manifold talents to another church!

Edited August 25, 2022 by TrevorR
Bad typing…

[Richard R]

Funny and sad in equal parts, but only one TLRT available.

😁😢

Edited August 26, 2022 by Richard R
Typo

[TrevorR]

4 minutes ago, Richard R said:

Funny and sad in equal parts, but only on TLRT available.

😁😢

…and I learned a new acronym today. Courtesy of @Stub Mandrel

http://www.stubmandrel.co.uk/workshop/18-reference-information/246-what-is-a-tlrt

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, TrevorR said:

That anecdote puts me in mind of an incident with a former worship leader who, how shall we put it, could have done well brushing up his person management, team leading and tech skills…

 

We were rehearsing for a service and our usual very very good sound tech (as in ‘having engineered for artists like Queen, Steve’s Hackett & Howe, Gary Moore and OMD’ good) was away. The very junior sound guy was running sound. Anyway, we started having this huge low end resonance on certain songs and chords. The WL turned to me and said, “Trevor, your bass is way too loud. Can you turn it down.” I said, “I don’t think it’s the bass is the issue, I think it’s the acoustic guitar getting close to feeding back.” “Just turn it down!” “OK.” So I turned down my amp a bit even though I knew it was nothing to do with the problem.

 

Next song… huge blooming notes. He turned round. “Trevor, I said turn down.” “I really think you should check out if the guitar monitors and check they’re not too loud.” He watched me turn down and then it happened again. He turned back round visibly annoyed now and hissed “I said turn your amp down!!!” I could barely hear the bass now and knew what would happen next so while he fussed with his keyboard and grumbled to the singers I very calmly and quietly switched off my amp, unplugged the amp from the extension socket, unplugged my bass, put it on the stand, coiled up my lead and put it on the floor in front of the bass. All the time the drummer was looking at me like “What on earth’s going on?” I just smiled back, put my hands in my pockets and stepped away from my gear. The song resumed. Lo and behold, big low end bloom… the WL spun round, furious, and yelled, “FOR GOODNESS SAKE TREVOR WILL YOU JUST TURN DOWN LIKE I TOL…” I smiled sweetly at him and said, “You really want to check that the acoustic guitar monitor isn’t too loud, that there isn’t too much gain on the channel input and that the EQ isn’t messed up…”

 

I was in no way sad when he moved on a number of months later to inflict his manifold talents to another church!

I've done the exact same thing in a similar situation, except I turned off and started dancing and miming playing like Flea does... by the time I was playing with my teeth the sound guys had cottoned on the low end issues wasn't me! 

[bass_dinger]

17 hours ago, TrevorR said:

That anecdote puts me in mind of an incident with a former worship leader who, how shall we put it, could have done well brushing up his person management, team leading and tech skills…

 

 

 

On 24/10/2020 at 23:03, TrevorR said:

Been there with a previous (sometimes tetchy) worship leader. We kept getting this low frequency boom/feedback type sound on stage in rehearsal which was annoying the Leader.

 

 

 

The synoptic gospels, in which we twice encounter the story of the casting out of the herd-of-hearing pig-headed Worship Leader.

 

@TrevorRthank you for sharing that great tale, and reminding us that we can be both patient, and have fun at the same time. 

 

   

[bass_dinger]

This last weekend, I played at an Open Air gig - the town organises an event, this time a Food Fair - and ask a church band to play.  The band is made up of musicians from various churches in the town (three of whom are from my own church).

 

The remit was for us to play worship songs, along with familiar tunes to attract a crowd.   So, Amazing Grace, Lovely Day, Build You Kingdom Here, Mr Blue Sky, Crazy Little Thing Called Love.

 

For the band, it was a new discipline to play songs in the original key, using fully accurate chords.  We even did All You Need is Love, using the correct wonky timing.   We seemed to manage, even with a failure of two iPads at the start of the session, and sub-standard sound on the stage.   For me, it was great fun, and an honour to play in such a strong band.  I was surprised at how relaxed I was - no music, and not being able to hear myself and the guitarist well, is usually a recipe for major stress!

 

Over the next few days, I hope to hear the outcome of the afternoon - contacts made, and conversations had. 

  

[Richard R]

Sounds like huge fun!

We had the induction of a new minister on Saturday which was a great celebration service. I had no responsibilities whatsoever, so could just join in the worship. 🥳

[Richard R]

Sometimes things go well, and occasionally they go very well.

 

I was "depping" this morning with another band at church. Normally my son plays bass and his wife plays flute in that band, as they were away I was on bass, the normal keyboard player dusted off his violin, and we had another keyboard player who is really a classical pianist. So apart from the BL on rhythm guitar it was all new instruments.

Everything clicked, it was the most enjoyable service I have ever played, and the best I have ever played as well. There was pulse when there needed to be, space when required, eveyone worked seamlessly together. The keys and piano interwove beautifully as if they had been playing together forever.

I still messed up in one song, but as I dropped out the piano filled straight in as if it was planned.

More importantly the congregation thought the music was good and really sung well.

 

It was a completely new experience for me, I hope it's not unique!

 

Have a blessed week everyone.

 

[LeftyP]

At our service yesterday our pianist called in sick, so our assistant pastor filled in on semi-acoustic guitar at the last minute.  My wife was on oboe, and I was on bass.  We had two female vocalists.  The small church was full (around 120 people), and the singing sounded great.  I hit most of the right notes in the right order and the whole thing worked well.  Sometimes an impromptu situation can produce good results! 

[Ralf1e]

11 hours ago, LeftyP said:

At our service yesterday our pianist called in sick, so our assistant pastor filled in on semi-acoustic guitar at the last minute.  My wife was on oboe, and I was on bass.  We had two female vocalists.  The small church was full (around 120 people), and the singing sounded great.  I hit most of the right notes in the right order and the whole thing worked well.  Sometimes an impromptu situation can produce good results! 

Some while ago we had a similar problem our piano/synth player didn't  turn up. We had just a drummer,  a gonga drummer and myself covering the rest of it on bass along with the singers. Some people afterwards claimed it was the best worship yet.

God is good, Amen

[Richard R]

I was sent this image on WhatsApp this just now, which coincidentally is an accurate analogy of my playing this evening. Well intentioned but with a fundamental problem...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dmc79]

28 minutes ago, Richard R said:

I was sent this image on WhatsApp this just now, which coincidentally is an accurate analogy of my playing this evening. Well intentioned but with a fundamental problem...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I got randomly sent that today by a friend so it must be doing the rounds. Hilarious!

 

[xgsjx]

Did Father Jack make that one?

[Owen]

I am thinking of our Carol Service for this year. If we have a "standard" carol service it can be great for believers, but for non-believers they can be in, hear some vaguely familiar songs and readings and just let it wash over them. If we throw something in from the left field then it could turn some heads. I am not looking for a congregation sing thing - it is not as if the world is short of good Carols. I am looking for some features. So, does anyone have any suggestions?

 

This has been suggested. I have not actually watched it yet so make no comment.

 

 

This is one I have used in the past.

 

 

 

 

[LukeFRC]

26 minutes ago, Owen said:

If we have a "standard" carol service it can be great for believers, but for non-believers they can be in, hear some vaguely familiar songs and readings and just let it wash over them.

IMO/IME for non church people the 'tradition' of hymns is what they came for, and the act of singing as part of a group is novel enough outwith the church/football/rugby. What you can do is do some really musical ly interesting things. 
Then the readings/talk you can go away from tradition and say things that don't wash over... 

When I've been places where we've tried to make the structure of the songs music too non traditional people have tended to come out feeling short changed more than engaged.

[LukeFRC]

That said worst Christmas carol service ever been too... 

I'm in a unnamed church in an unnamed city that just happens to be the capital of Scotland.
Sunday morning is a normal service, evening carol service.

Sunday morning the preacher guy had comes up from England. He was from Lancashire or somewhere, so Imagine Paddy McGuiness - but kinda arrogant rather than likeable, and not as funny as he thought he was, but still trying these jokes...  he wasn't great. 

Anyway the evening carol service - we did loads of non traditional songs, it wasn't very christmassy - and then the guy came up and started "the name of my talk is a Christmas surprise, and the surprise is I'm not going to talk about Christmas at all" we laughed
He didn't

He did however try and tell lots of jokes about Scottish people, and a very crude idea of Scottish culture. Which might have been funny in Lancashire... but on his first visit to Scotland didn't go down well... I've not heard another preacher being hissed at! 

[bass_dinger]

17 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I've not heard another preacher being hissed at! 

Not since God spoke to the serpent in the garden of Eden....

 

As for interesting Christmas services, our worship leader wanted the band to play along to a pre-recorded track last Christmas*.  These "stem tracks" could be adjusted, to give more or less bass, or vocals, or keys, in each musician's monitor mix, and another mix could be sent to the PA.

 

The song included 4 or 5 key changes, choirs, orchestra, band, and, for all I know, the Dagenham Girl Pipers and a team of Morris Men banging their sticks together. 

 

Over the six weeks it took to refine the many mixes, and learn it, I grew to loathe it - so much so that I can't even bring myself to remember what it was called, much less to look it up.

 

By the end of the rehearsal, none of the core band musicians were left in the band , apart from the worship leader's own family members.  There was a choir, however. 

 

When the pastor learnt that I had dropped out for that song, he asked if I could nevertheless remain on stage and mime playing the bass. "You mean lie?"  He had the grace to laugh...

 

People seemed to enjoy it. However,  they enjoyed Away In A Manger just as much, which took 6 minutes (not 6 weeks) to get right. 

 

 

* Last Christmas was when we did it. It was not the track that we played along to....

Edited November 19, 2022 by bass_dinger
More detail. Always, more detail....

[oldslapper]

17 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

That said worst Christmas carol service ever been too... 

I'm in a unnamed church in an unnamed city that just happens to be the capital of Scotland.
Sunday morning is a normal service, evening carol service.

Sunday morning the preacher guy had comes up from England. He was from Lancashire or somewhere, so Imagine Paddy McGuiness - but kinda arrogant rather than likeable, and not as funny as he thought he was, but still trying these jokes...  he wasn't great. 

Anyway the evening carol service - we did loads of non traditional songs, it wasn't very christmassy - and then the guy came up and started "the name of my talk is a Christmas surprise, and the surprise is I'm not going to talk about Christmas at all" we laughed
He didn't

He did however try and tell lots of jokes about Scottish people, and a very crude idea of Scottish culture. Which might have been funny in Lancashire... but on his first visit to Scotland didn't go down well... I've not heard another preacher being hissed at! 

Reminds me of a time back in the 90’s when we invited a well known children's “ministry” bloke to do a Christmas service. It was all fun and games with all the silly songs and “actions”. Then it came to his speaky  bit where he opened with “I don’t care what your parents have told you, Father Christmas doesn’t exist”. Now, our children had been told from very early on that FC wasn’t real but was a fictional character. And in fact their gifts came from the hard graft of their mother and I. However, there were a number of parents who were not happy with Mr “well known childrens ministry person who’s made a fair bob from CD sales”. 
I had a word with him after and pointed out that it was the responsibility of parents to parent their own children, not his and perhaps he should stick to what we invited (paid a lot of money) him to do. 
 

Give some people a microphone and an audience and they think they’re roy chubby brown or Arthur scargill. 🙄

[TrevorR]

We regularly do this in our Christmas service. Don’t let the singer put you off listening. This is Mariah goes gospel and it’s great fun to play and song to - especially in the coda bit where it goes full on Sister Act!

 

 

 

We’ve also gone a gospel/bluegrass version of Go Tell It On The Mountain - also great fun in that genre. Otherwise folks want carols so do some rock band arranged versions (ie simplified with a load of hymnal chords stripped out). 

[Ralf1e]

13 hours ago, oldslapper said:

Reminds me of a time back in the 90’s when we invited a well known children's “ministry” bloke to do a Christmas service. It was all fun and games with all the silly songs and “actions”. Then it came to his speaky  bit where he opened with “I don’t care what your parents have told you, Father Christmas doesn’t exist”. Now, our children had been told from very early on that FC wasn’t real but was a fictional character. And in fact their gifts came from the hard graft of their mother and I. However, there were a number of parents who were not happy with Mr “well known childrens ministry person who’s made a fair bob from CD sales”. 
I had a word with him after and pointed out that it was the responsibility of parents to parent their own children, not his and perhaps he should stick to what we invited (paid a lot of money) him to do. 
 

Give some people a microphone and an audience and they think they’re roy chubby brown or Arthur scargill. 🙄

This is a bone of contention and a bit of a tricky one. We always taught our children from a young age that the story of santa clause was a lie.  It saves having to tell them later in life that you have been lying to them for years and at that point they have the right to doubt everything you have ever said. To not tell a fellow Christian when they are in error is the sin of omission and is not acting in love. If you love them you will gently correct them when they are in error rather than allow them to continue in sin/unbelief.

The gently is something I personally am not very good at at all.

I was in a church some years ago when the young fresh from Bible school pastor tried to justify his stance on keeping the lie to his children going to the congregation and ended up as good as preaching Father Christmas. Yeshua/Jesus didn't hardly get a mention that day. That pastor has been out of the ministy now for some years where he can do less harm.

We continue to pray for him but believe he went back into sales as a profession.

Bottom line is do I tell them the truth or allow them to continue to believe in the lie. We do the same to people we meet every day and we are all guilty of it.

God will help us Amen

[Dad3353]

11 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

This is a bone of contention and a bit of a tricky one. We always taught our children from a young age that the story of santa clause was a lie.  It saves having to tell them later in life that you have been lying to them for years and at that point they have the right to doubt everything you have ever said. To not tell a fellow Christian when they are in error is the sin of omission and is not acting in love. If you love them you will gently correct them when they are in error rather than allow them to continue in sin/unbelief.

The gently is something I personally am not very good at at all.

I was in a church some years ago when the young fresh from Bible school pastor tried to justify his stance on keeping the lie to his children going to the congregation and ended up as good as preaching Father Christmas. Yeshua/Jesus didn't hardly get a mention that day. That pastor has been out of the ministy now for some years where he can do less harm.

We continue to pray for him but believe he went back into sales as a profession.

Bottom line is do I tell them the truth or allow them to continue to believe in the lie. We do the same to people we meet every day and we are all guilty of it.

God will help us Amen

 

Nothing personal, but I do find it somewhat amusing to read of 'not telling lies' coming from anyone going on about God and Heaven and the like. A question of defining 'lie', I suppose; to me, anything blatantly untrue stated as truth is a 'lie'. Just sayin'; carry one, folk.