Playing in Church.

[LukeFRC]

First time with a pedalboard today - Quatschmacher’s double bass preset on the C4 on one song

”loved watching you play bass and get into the music, couldn’t hear you weren’t on in the mix at all”

[bass_dinger]

2 hours ago, Owen said:

@bass_dinger sorry to hear this. Working with creatives (including us) can be tricky wherever we are. I would expect no difference with the Church. We are more than aware that we have so not got it together. I pray that you find a church where you can be in fellowship. If we are in the band or not in the band is secondary. 

 

 

I see that I was not clear.  When I say "move on", I mean move on from the church band, but remain in the church. 

 

That gives the leaders the problem of explaining why I am not playing - or me the problem of keeping my mouth shut!

[Owen]

This is better news. I am glad to hear it. Musicians are nothing but trouble wherever you find them!

[dmc79]

On 07/01/2023 at 20:32, bass_dinger said:

The time seems to have come to leave the church band.  I am not feeling it any more. 

 

There were various issues, but I am not here to publish the problems of others. However, I walked out mid rehearsal, while the band continued playing. 

 

Two WhatsApp messages said that I should not turn up for the Christmas service. I will be charitable, and say that was out of concern for the stress that I was suffering. 

 

After three weeks, I realise that I am not missing the music or the stress. 

 

Time to take a break, or move on, perhaps.

 

Last night and today, I was playing some new basslines - You Should Be Dancing, Killing Me Softly, for example- and very much enjoyed it.  So, I want to play, but right now, not at church. 

 

So long, and thanks for all the fish (and loaves).

 

 

Sorry to hear that you've had enough. I'm sure we've all felt like that at times for whatever reason/s. It's not always easy to do this, but I try my best to let any nonsense go over my head and just play and do my bit. Other than practicing at home, which I don't do a lot of because it's boring without a band around, church is the only place I play. I'd like to play elsewhere too, but since 2 friends moved away who I used to jam with a bit, I don't play anywhere outside of church. I work shifts, which makes it virtually impossible to commit to anything regularly on any given night. So when annoyances come along within the worship band, I just kind of grin and bear it, knowing that if I walk out I'll end up not playing anywhere and would miss it. 

 

I guess you don't want to go into it all in detail, but I'm curious what on earth happened to make you walk out mid rehearsal? Our frustrations often overlap somewhat here, maybe what you have experienced is something that someone here can help give advice on resolving?

 

Thanks to those who responsed to my overdrive / compression questions. May try a compressor sometime. I feel overdrive is a rabbit hole that I could go into and never come out of, so I bought one more pedal and think will leave it for now. I got a Boss BB-1X Bass Driver, and whilst I haven't fully explored it or used it during a service yet, it seems like more what I've been wanting than others I've tried. I passed on a Darkglass Vintage Microtubes (VMT) recently as whatever settings I tried, I just didn't dig it, just sounded too baked-in / coloured and dark for my liking. Yet some rave about that pedal. I just don't get it. One Control Hookers Green Bass Machine is a fun little mini drive pedal, but again was just a bit too coloured for me. Still not sold on the EHX Bass Soul Food. I hate the loud EHX footswitch click and in-ear pop when stomping on it. It's a bit too middy for my liking.

 

The Boss BB-1X seems more of a natural, organic breakup kind of overdrive without too much flavour, if that makes sense, and of course the bulletproof Boss enclosure and hinged footswitch is a bonus. I can't see myself using much drive in church anyway, but I like to have some drive on tap at home for playing along to stuff and just noodling about, so I'll just keep it on the board anyway. I've seen on Talkbass that some use things like the TC Spark (full pedal) either as a boost or just an always on bit of grit. I'll have to figure out if want to use the BB-1X as something to stomp on as needed, or to use as an always on lower gain thing. I can always get a bit more drive by playing with my VTDI settings (namely Blend, Character & Drive knobs) if I want to, but it's a fine balance getting a nice tone with some slight drive, without getting too much grind / clank / string noise - keeping the Bite switch off and Character down certainly helps with that! 

Edited January 12, 2023 by dmc79

[bass_dinger]

1 hour ago, dmc79 said:

I'm curious what on earth happened to make you walk out mid rehearsal?

General issues.

 

○ We have a rota supposedly showing attendance 3 months in advance, maintenened by the Worship Leader.  It is  regularly allowed to run out, leaving the team to ask on Friday whether they are playing on Sunday. 

○ The rota should include one person from the church choir. The WL regularly forgets to invite someone or they can't make it and tell him- but he forgets to invite a replacement.

○ We did a Worship Central course but the last one clashed with the August summer break. He never rescheduled it.

○ The song chord charts are often late, or never sent. Apparently I am the only one who asks for them

○ A guitarist plays from memory, while the rest of us use the chord charts.  Occasionally the guitarist will play differently to the rest of the band but won't tell us that he is doing his own thing.

○ 3 ½ years ago, I was told that I would be on the rota for guitar.  A year ago, I gave up waiting for it to happen. 

○ the WL said that new singers would be given 3 rehearsals before they were allowed in a service. It never happened.

○ I have frequently mentioned these issues, but they are not dealt with. I have concluded that it does  not matter to them.

 

Specifically 

○ The guitarist for that rehearsal played something that other than what written.  "What are you playing for the bit that says C G C?" ",oh I am not playing that" (,(but did not say what he was playing).

○ The WL was the drummer, and was speeding up. I told him so - and he said that he knew, and carried on.

○ The WLs wife sang, and one phrase was so off key that I stopped, and asked the WL what had happened (I thought that I was in the wrong key). He said that it was "a bit pitchy ".

○ When I asked for clarification and guidance, they carried on playing. 

○ When I packed up (which took about 3 minutes) they carried on playing. They did not stop to ask what the issue was.

○ Over the next day, I got two WhatsApp messages saying not to turn up for the band .

 

I have been asked to meet up with the leaders.

 

So lots of general issues, that make me wonder how supportive the band is, and if I want to be part of it. Indeed, if I have the ability to play with elastic drummers, fretless singers, and guitarists who go off piste in the songs. 

 

Walking out was not my finest moment, but I am not impressed with them either. 

 

Right now I am off to visit my dad, in a Covid ward where he is on oxygen. Somehow, that feels worse his mild stroke and heart attack that hospitalised him on Christmas eve,  and his next hospital visit on new year's eve. 

 

My feeling is that I just wanted to play in the band, and not have to deal with the hassle of the band.

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by bass_dinger
More words

[Ralf1e]

6 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

General issues.

 

We have a rota supposedly showing attendance 3 months in advance, maintenened by the Worship Leader.  It is  regularly allowed to run out, leaving the team to ask on Friday whether they are playing on Sunday. 

The rota should include one person from the church choir. The WL regularly forgets to invite someone or they can't make it and tell him- but he forgets to invite a replacement.

We did a Worship Central course but the last one clashed with the August summer break. He never rescheduled it.

The song chord charts are often late, or never sent. Apparently I am the only one who asks for them

A guitarist plays from memory, while the rest of us use the chord charts.  Occasionally the guitarist will play differently to the rest of the band but won't tell us that he is doing his own thing.

3 ½ years ago, I was told that I would be on the rota for guitar.  A year ago, I gave up waiting for it to happen. 

 

Specifically 

The guitarist for that rehearsal played something that other than what written.  "What are you playing for the bit that says C G C?" ",oh I am not playing that" (,(but did not say what he was playing).

The WL was the drummer, and was speeding up. I told him so - and he said that he knew, and carried on.

The WLs wife sang, and one phrase was so off key that I stopped, and asked the WL what had happened (I thought that I was in the wrong key). He said that it was "a bit pitchy ".

 

When I asked for clarification and guidance, they carried on playing. 

 

When I packed up (which took about 3 minutes) they carried on playing. They did not stop to ask what the issue was.

 

Over the next day, I got two WhatsApp messages saying not to turn up for the band .

 

So lots of general issues, that make me wonder how supportive the band is, and if I want to be part of it. Indeed, if I have the ability to play with elastic drummers, fretless singers, and guitarists who go off piste in the songs. 

 

Walking out was not my finest moment, but I am not impressed with them either. 

 

 

 

This yes all those issues and more. If they can't give God their best then why are they there?

It is not about them it is about Yahosha/Yashuah. If you stayed you would be condoning what they are doing which is serving self not our Father in heaven.

[bass_dinger]

@dmc79  @Ralf1e I was on a roll and added more words  while you were commenting. 

Of course, the other way of looking at it is that they saw my obvious distress and anguish, without understanding why - and therefore gave me the space to stay away from the band.

 

When I spoke with the randomising guitarist he said that he felt that in such situations there is little that can be done in the heat of the moment. He also explained that he does not like to by tied to a piece of paper (or, as I call it, use the music), and prefers to do it by memory so that he cango with the flow. So, I understand his reasoning, but I am unsure how to follow him when he does his own thing. 

 

Perhaps it is best to promote unity, by leaving the band.

 

[Risk101]

20 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

General issues.

 

○ We have a rota supposedly showing attendance 3 months in advance, maintenened by the Worship Leader.  It is  regularly allowed to run out, leaving the team to ask on Friday whether they are playing on Sunday. 

○ The rota should include one person from the church choir. The WL regularly forgets to invite someone or they can't make it and tell him- but he forgets to invite a replacement.

○ We did a Worship Central course but the last one clashed with the August summer break. He never rescheduled it.

○ The song chord charts are often late, or never sent. Apparently I am the only one who asks for them

○ A guitarist plays from memory, while the rest of us use the chord charts.  Occasionally the guitarist will play differently to the rest of the band but won't tell us that he is doing his own thing.

○ 3 ½ years ago, I was told that I would be on the rota for guitar.  A year ago, I gave up waiting for it to happen. 

○ the WL said that new singers would be given 3 rehearsals before they were allowed in a service. It never happened.

○ I have frequently mentioned these issues, but they are not dealt with. I have concluded that it does  not matter to them.

 

Specifically 

○ The guitarist for that rehearsal played something that other than what written.  "What are you playing for the bit that says C G C?" ",oh I am not playing that" (,(but did not say what he was playing).

○ The WL was the drummer, and was speeding up. I told him so - and he said that he knew, and carried on.

○ The WLs wife sang, and one phrase was so off key that I stopped, and asked the WL what had happened (I thought that I was in the wrong key). He said that it was "a bit pitchy ".

○ When I asked for clarification and guidance, they carried on playing. 

○ When I packed up (which took about 3 minutes) they carried on playing. They did not stop to ask what the issue was.

○ Over the next day, I got two WhatsApp messages saying not to turn up for the band .

 

I have been asked to meet up with the leaders.

 

So lots of general issues, that make me wonder how supportive the band is, and if I want to be part of it. Indeed, if I have the ability to play with elastic drummers, fretless singers, and guitarists who go off piste in the songs. 

 

Walking out was not my finest moment, but I am not impressed with them either. 

 

Right now I am off to visit my dad, in a Covid ward where he is on oxygen. Somehow, that feels worse his mild stroke and heart attack that hospitalised him on Christmas eve,  and his next hospital visit on new year's eve. 

 

My feeling is that I just wanted to play in the band, and not have to deal with the hassle of the band.

 

So sorry to hear this - hope and pray that your dad improves.

in my experience worship bands are often a bit (or more) dysfunctional because we are often a fairly random group thrown together through having musical skills - compared to a band that forms often from friendships and mutual interest.

Our group often drives me nuts, but I think I’m there for a reason (also the oldest member by far) so I tough it out for a “higher purpose”. Sometimes though I’m sure it’s right to take a break.

How they follow up with you will be important in knowing whether it’s right to return.

Perhaps also as bassists we are more aware than most of timing precision,  and of “serving the song” cos it’s what we do!!

[LeftyP]

3 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

General issues.

 

○ We have a rota supposedly showing attendance 3 months in advance, maintenened by the Worship Leader.  It is  regularly allowed to run out, leaving the team to ask on Friday whether they are playing on Sunday. 

○ The rota should include one person from the church choir. The WL regularly forgets to invite someone or they can't make it and tell him- but he forgets to invite a replacement.

○ We did a Worship Central course but the last one clashed with the August summer break. He never rescheduled it.

○ The song chord charts are often late, or never sent. Apparently I am the only one who asks for them

○ A guitarist plays from memory, while the rest of us use the chord charts.  Occasionally the guitarist will play differently to the rest of the band but won't tell us that he is doing his own thing.

○ 3 ½ years ago, I was told that I would be on the rota for guitar.  A year ago, I gave up waiting for it to happen. 

○ the WL said that new singers would be given 3 rehearsals before they were allowed in a service. It never happened.

○ I have frequently mentioned these issues, but they are not dealt with. I have concluded that it does  not matter to them.

 

Specifically 

○ The guitarist for that rehearsal played something that other than what written.  "What are you playing for the bit that says C G C?" ",oh I am not playing that" (,(but did not say what he was playing).

○ The WL was the drummer, and was speeding up. I told him so - and he said that he knew, and carried on.

○ The WLs wife sang, and one phrase was so off key that I stopped, and asked the WL what had happened (I thought that I was in the wrong key). He said that it was "a bit pitchy ".

○ When I asked for clarification and guidance, they carried on playing. 

○ When I packed up (which took about 3 minutes) they carried on playing. They did not stop to ask what the issue was.

○ Over the next day, I got two WhatsApp messages saying not to turn up for the band .

 

I have been asked to meet up with the leaders.

 

So lots of general issues, that make me wonder how supportive the band is, and if I want to be part of it. Indeed, if I have the ability to play with elastic drummers, fretless singers, and guitarists who go off piste in the songs. 

 

Walking out was not my finest moment, but I am not impressed with them either. 

 

Right now I am off to visit my dad, in a Covid ward where he is on oxygen. Somehow, that feels worse his mild stroke and heart attack that hospitalised him on Christmas eve,  and his next hospital visit on new year's eve. 

 

My feeling is that I just wanted to play in the band, and not have to deal with the hassle of the band.

 

When I read posts like this I feel blessed to belong to a music group (and wider church) who just seem to get on with each other.  We have a team of singers and musicians who play on a rota basis.  I play bass on average about once every three weeks with different personnel each time.  We do not have set teams and it makes for interesting sessions.  Cliques cannot form and we get to know a wider group of people.  Most of us only play at church and run through the songs about an hour before the morning service.

 

At 72 I'm one of the oldest members of the music team and we have secondary school students contributing too.  It is a great mix and the Sunday morning run through can be good fun.  We try to play well but don't get hung up if anyone makes a mistake.  Our thinking is that when the 120+ congregation start singing they won't hear our fluffs anyway!  That doesn't mean we don't care about the standard of playing but we accept that we are human and things can go wrong.  We mix outside of band duties at other church activities and tend to enjoy being around each other.  The main thing is giving our best for God and we park any egos at the door.

Edited January 12, 2023 by LeftyP

[LukeFRC]

56 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

Right now I am off to visit my dad

I imagine another way of thinking about it is rather than walking off cos of a big list of issues, you had more important things going on than putting up with badly run childish nonsense of a band. Sometimes more important things are more important 

[xgsjx]

16 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

General issues.

 

○ We have a rota supposedly showing attendance 3 months in advance, maintenened by the Worship Leader.  It is  regularly allowed to run out, leaving the team to ask on Friday whether they are playing on Sunday. 

○ The rota should include one person from the church choir. The WL regularly forgets to invite someone or they can't make it and tell him- but he forgets to invite a replacement.

○ We did a Worship Central course but the last one clashed with the August summer break. He never rescheduled it.

○ The song chord charts are often late, or never sent. Apparently I am the only one who asks for them

○ A guitarist plays from memory, while the rest of us use the chord charts.  Occasionally the guitarist will play differently to the rest of the band but won't tell us that he is doing his own thing.

○ 3 ½ years ago, I was told that I would be on the rota for guitar.  A year ago, I gave up waiting for it to happen. 

○ the WL said that new singers would be given 3 rehearsals before they were allowed in a service. It never happened.

○ I have frequently mentioned these issues, but they are not dealt with. I have concluded that it does  not matter to them.

 

Specifically 

○ The guitarist for that rehearsal played something that other than what written.  "What are you playing for the bit that says C G C?" ",oh I am not playing that" (,(but did not say what he was playing).

○ The WL was the drummer, and was speeding up. I told him so - and he said that he knew, and carried on.

○ The WLs wife sang, and one phrase was so off key that I stopped, and asked the WL what had happened (I thought that I was in the wrong key). He said that it was "a bit pitchy ".

○ When I asked for clarification and guidance, they carried on playing. 

○ When I packed up (which took about 3 minutes) they carried on playing. They did not stop to ask what the issue was.

○ Over the next day, I got two WhatsApp messages saying not to turn up for the band .

 

I have been asked to meet up with the leaders.

 

So lots of general issues, that make me wonder how supportive the band is, and if I want to be part of it. Indeed, if I have the ability to play with elastic drummers, fretless singers, and guitarists who go off piste in the songs. 

 

Walking out was not my finest moment, but I am not impressed with them either. 

 

Right now I am off to visit my dad, in a Covid ward where he is on oxygen. Somehow, that feels worse his mild stroke and heart attack that hospitalised him on Christmas eve,  and his next hospital visit on new year's eve. 

 

My feeling is that I just wanted to play in the band, and not have to deal with the hassle of the band.

 

This is sadly very relatable. 
Since quitting the band & not having set foot in church since, there’s only been 2 communications to me, both WhatsApp messages before Xmas from 2 WLs pretty much trying to find out if I can play. I didn’t respond. 
No one’s bothered to find out how me or the Mrs is. They only want us when we can be of benefit. 

They talk a good game on stage, but off stage they seem to forget it all, become wee cliches & lack the basics like compassion, care, community, inclusion & so on. 
 

[ezbass]

16 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

He also explained that he does not like to by tied to a piece of paper (or, as I call it, use the music), and prefers to do it by memory so that he can go with the flow.

 

Shorthand for can’t be bothered to learn and thinks himself above the rest. What a tosspot.

[bass_dinger]

4 hours ago, ezbass said:

Shorthand for can’t be bothered to learn and thinks himself above the rest. What a tosspot.

That's a bit harsh, although I see where you are coming from.

 

Church bands don't really have a concept of playing a song right.  Rather, they play up to their own ability, and what they feel.  So, if the original version of the song has a bass riff between verses that they can't play, then there won't be a bass riff.

 

I am perhaps the only one in the band who has a recent background playing covers, and understands the concept of playing in the key, and version of the recording.  

 

The guitarist is more of a soloist who expects others to hear and follow his chordal embellishments  - he is so instinctive a player that sometimes he is unsure what he played, when I ask.

 

That makes it nearly impossible to follow him perfectly (but if he is happy with D in the bass when he goes to an Em to C, then I can play with him). It also means that playing covers note-perfect is more of a challenge for him.

 

He is a good guy, with a narrower skill set.

 

I am perhaps a bit of a plonker, but with experience of more bands,  and reading, chord charts, and tab - but minimal ear playing.

 

 

[ezbass]

14 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

That's a bit harsh, although I see where you are coming from.

 

Church bands don't really have a concept of playing a song right.  Rather, they play up to their own ability, and what they feel.  So, if the original version of the song has a bass riff between verses that they can't play, then there won't be a bass riff.

 

I am perhaps the only one in the band who has a recent background playing covers, and understands the concept of playing in the key, and version of the recording.  

 

The guitarist is more of a soloist who expects others to hear and follow his chordal embellishments  - he is so instinctive a player that sometimes he is unsure what he played, when I ask.

 

That makes it nearly impossible to follow him perfectly (but if he is happy with D in the bass when he goes to an Em to C, then I can play with him). It also means that playing covers note-perfect is more of a challenge for him.

 

He is a good guy, with a narrower skill set.

 

I am perhaps a bit of a plonker, but with experience of more bands,  and reading, chord charts, and tab - but minimal ear playing.

 

 

Harsh? You should hear the voices in my head when I read about those who expect everyone to follow them in a group, that’s not playing in a group for me, that’s being a diva. I’m not sure his somewhat selfish approach has anything to do with group worship. I’ll leave it there as the voices in my head are grabbing the flaming torches and pitchforks  .

[bass_dinger]

1 hour ago, ezbass said:

Harsh? You should hear the voices in my head when I read about those who expect everyone to follow them in a group, that’s not playing in a group for me, that’s being a diva. I’m not sure his somewhat selfish approach has anything to do with group worship. I’ll leave it there as the voices in my head are grabbing the flaming torches and pitchforks  .

@ezbassyou wouldn't last 10 minutes in a church band, then!  

 

So, is a pitchfork similar to a tuning fork, but slightly sharp? 

 

 

 

[ezbass]

2 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

@ezbassyou wouldn't last 10 minutes in a church band, then!  

 

 

 

 

I suspect that this would be the case. As a much younger man, I was a regular church goer (including gospel bearer, acolyte & crucifer), but I haven’t set foot in one other than for christenings, weddings and funerals for many a year. I became disenchanted with the hypocrisy of many of the parishioners once outside of a service. This seems to somewhat amplified when it comes to church bands from what I’ve read in these pages.

[Ralf1e]

17 hours ago, ezbass said:

Harsh? You should hear the voices in my head when I read about those who expect everyone to follow them in a group, that’s not playing in a group for me, that’s being a diva. I’m not sure his somewhat selfish approach has anything to do with group worship. I’ll leave it there as the voices in my head are grabbing the flaming torches and pitchforks  .

Have you been listening to Brothers in Arms by any chance? 🤣

[Owen]

On 08/01/2023 at 12:10, Kevsy71 said:

@Owen , this has helped me for remote jamming in Zoom so may help in your situation - in Zoom settings:

 

- Set "Suppress background noise to "Low"
- Check the option "Show in-meeting option to enable "Original Sound"
- Check the option "High-fidelity music mode"
- Check the option "Stereo audio"

 

 

Sadly, they were all ticked. Does anyone have any suggestions for web based online video meeting portals which are not Zoom? Google Meet is ok on computer without a google account but needs a google account for phone/tablet access. 

[LukeFRC]

7 minutes ago, Owen said:

Sadly, they were all ticked. Does anyone have any suggestions for web based online video meeting portals which are not Zoom? Google Meet is ok on computer without a google account but needs a google account for phone/tablet access. 

We use YouTube 

 

every duff note broadcast to all the world for perpetuity (when I’m on in the mix)  

[Owen]

Ta. I would use YT, but we cannot have the community multiple screens thing then. Any other thoughts? Zoom visually is fine, the audio is just bizzare. 

[xgsjx]

What about MS Teams?  We use it a lot at work, but I’ve never used it out of work. 

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, xgsjx said:

What about MS Teams?  We use it a lot at work, but I’ve never used it out of work. 

I think that Cos it’s not cheap? 

[LukeFRC]

On 08/01/2023 at 11:33, Owen said:

While I am on this thread, can I ask a zoom question? We are still doing the zoom thing. When it is one speaker the feed is fine. As soon as the band kicks in it is glitch o'clock. This can be with original sound for musicians on or off. It could be our upload speed but that is hardwired so the wifi wobbliness is not an issue. I guess one speaker will not be providing the full spectrum info to hear glitching where it is or not happening. It can sound as if someone is riding the faders mischievously. Any thoughts? I will try a YT broadcast after church this morning to see what happens. 

Actually while I think back - I think YouTube has quite sophisticated compression - but it could be that the band are at a higher signal level than the speaker and kicking in some in built compression? 
I know on our desk we had two levels, one in room and one for broadcast (which was confusing) and then compression on the desk on the output of the broadcast feed… and we had to watch the output into zoom/YouTube like a hawk to stop all sorts of bad things happening 

 

this is all stuff you have probably played with 

[LukeFRC]

(We did zoom and YouTube simultaneously for a bit)

[bass_dinger]

6 hours ago, Owen said:

Does anyone have any suggestions for web based online video meeting portals which are not Zoom? Google Meet is ok on computer without a google account but needs a google account for phone/tablet access. 

 

For chatting, WhatsApp.   For playing music and sharing it live, JamKazam - but even entry level requires a high specification set up (ethernet rather than WiFi, a fast PC.  If you fail the speed tests, JamKazam won't let you join).