Playing in Church.

[Richard R]

On 02/03/2023 at 20:21, bass_dinger said:

I met with the leaders, who wanted me to worry less about the playing the notes and focus more on worshipping.  

 

This is fundamentally flawed.

 

The point of worship is to encounter and glorify God. If you're involved in leading, singing, tech, or anything such as that then your first priority is the worship of the congregation,  not your own. You are serving, not worshipping,  you are Martha, not Mary. 

Now if you are good enough to sing and play and be able to worship and encounter God as well, good for you! (I'm not yet). But even if you are, then the priority is the congregation, and the whole band has to be as good as they can to help the congregation to worship. So by saying "focus on your worship" the leader is failing to understand the job the band is there to do.

It's the same with FOH sound or livestream cameras - it is work and service to be done to the best of one's ability.  Which means not usually joining in but making sure the best possible sound or visuals are presented to those who  receive them, to aid their worship.

 

Whether you call such service "worship" is a another question, but it's clearer to use a different word.

[Owen]

1 minute ago, Richard R said:

Now if you are good enough to sing and play

That will be a very small percentage of us!

[Richard R]

9 hours ago, Owen said:

That will be a very small percentage of us!

I should have said sing or play.

[bass_dinger]

On 03/03/2023 at 22:58, Richard R said:

. You are serving, not worshipping,  you are Martha, not Mary. 

Spot on.

 

That's my role.  If they don't like that, or want someone who worships rather than plays, then they are free to get someone else in 

[LukeFRC]

7 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

Spot on.

 

That's my role.  If they don't like that, or want someone who worships rather than plays, then they are free to get someone else in 

You can do both. 
when the band issues and personality stuff aren’t there and you are at the point where playing on a Sunday is a joy then you can play and worship and help the others in your church worship too. When it’s not all playing the dots but When you are listening to the band and the people singing, and God and that affects what you play. 
 

that’s the good stuff. That’s what makes the rest of the rubbish we have to go through worth it and also worth persevering through 

[bass_dinger]

On 03/03/2023 at 21:16, TrevorR said:

there’s a 99.999% chance they are not musicians and just have no idea how music works

 

One has been to some sort of music college (and is a poor drummer but a good guitarist and keyboard player); the other has been playing by ear for 30-plus years (but can't tell the difference between 3/4 and 4/4).

 

Perhaps they have a different understanding of music to me - to them it flows (especially when one does not listen to the other musicians nor follow the chord charts).  To me, I want to know what I am playing  - and indeed, what they are playing. 

 

I was recently asked to play at an Easter event with these same musicians.  Four weeks to run through perhaps 20 songs.  I decided not to. And for once, I don't mind!

 

In other news, my dad is still in hospital from date of my original post. That remains my priority. 

 

[Ralf1e]

On 03/03/2023 at 22:58, Richard R said:

 

This is fundamentally flawed.

 

The point of worship is to encounter and glorify God. If you're involved in leading, singing, tech, or anything such as that then your first priority is the worship of the congregation,  not your own. You are serving, not worshipping,  you are Martha, not Mary. 

Now if you are good enough to sing and play and be able to worship and encounter God as well, good for you! (I'm not yet). But even if you are, then the priority is the congregation, and the whole band has to be as good as they can to help the congregation to worship. So by saying "focus on your worship" the leader is failing to understand the job the band is there to do.

It's the same with FOH sound or livestream cameras - it is work and service to be done to the best of one's ability.  Which means not usually joining in but making sure the best possible sound or visuals are presented to those who  receive them, to aid their worship.

 

Whether you call such service "worship" is a another question, but it's clearer to use a different word.

Now if you are good enough to sing and play and be able to worship and encounter God as well, good for you! (I'm not yet).

So why have you had so much to say (I'm not yet). So don't talk listen! One tongue two ears

[Richard R]

Good advice in general. However in this case the point is not about ability but intent, and doesn't rest on my proficiency, experience, or otherwise. 

 

Regardless of ability the band is there primarily to serve the congregation. My response was to the suggestion that we should not focus  on playing correctly but on our personal worship.  Which I maintain is a flawed view as it has the priority in the wrong place.

 

Happy to have a further debate, but it is independent of ability.

[Richard R]

1 hour ago, bass_dinger said:

In other news, my dad is still in hospital from date of my original post. That remains my priority. 

 

Absolutely this. ^^^

[Ralf1e]

10 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

 

One has been to some sort of music college (and is a poor drummer but a good guitarist and keyboard player); the other has been playing by ear for 30-plus years (but can't tell the difference between 3/4 and 4/4).

 

Perhaps they have a different understanding of music to me - to them it flows (especially when one does not listen to the other musicians nor follow the chord charts).  To me, I want to know what I am playing  - and indeed, what they are playing. 

 

I was recently asked to play at an Easter event with these same musicians.  Four weeks to run through perhaps 20 songs.  I decided not to. And for once, I don't mind!

 

In other news, my dad is still in hospital from date of my original post. That remains my priority. 

 

🙏🙏🙏

[TrevorR]

23 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

In other news, my dad is still in hospital from date of my original post. That remains my priority. 

This is the important stuff. Praying for you, your dad and the family.

[LeftyP]

We are doing this song on Sunday.  Just five of us in the band including me on four string bass.  I'm not sure we can replicate this version and I won't come close to the 6 string bass player at 3'53"!

 

 

[Rich]

The thread is about playing in church, so can we please stick to the musical topic and leave the proselytising for the pulpit? Many thanks.

[Risk101]

Just got the songs for tomorrow. One song we’ve only just learned is in a different key which should be fun - there goes the muscle memory 😂

[Owen]

1 minute ago, Risk101 said:

Just got the songs for tomorrow. One song we’ve only just learned is in a different key which should be fun - there goes the muscle memory 😂

Capo up. It will be fine

[dmc79]

28 minutes ago, Risk101 said:

Just got the songs for tomorrow. One song we’ve only just learned is in a different key which should be fun - there goes the muscle memory 😂

 

I'd probably be able to remember how to play a boatload of songs without printed music in front of me if we always played them in the same key. We play any given song in a number of keys depending on who is leading. I don't mind the odd song here and there, but if we play a few in the likes of Eb, that first to fourth fret stretch is a killer. No wonder some people switch to short scale! 

 

Is it normal to get your songs for Sunday morning after 6pm on Sat?! 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by dmc79

[Richard R]

We had a full practice last night for tomorrow, which is great. Unfortunately I was so tired I was almost asleep between songs so I have no idea what I'm doing tomorrow. 

 

We play stuff in Eb and randomly change keys. I cheat by using a 5 string and getting the chord charts with Nashville numbers. This makes me a bad person.

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Owen said:

Capo up. It will be fine

I was expecting you to suggest a 5 string! 

[Richard R]

Just now, LukeFRC said:

I was expecting you to suggest a 5 string! 

I am nothing if not predictable. 😑

[Risk101]

Well I only play 5 string basses!!

[Owen]

27 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I was expecting you to suggest a 5 string! 

It is a truth universally acknowledged that you cannot spell bass without a B.

[Richard R]

32 minutes ago, Risk101 said:

Well I only play 5 string basses!!

I only play 5 string basses, not well!!

[xgsjx]

2 hours ago, dmc79 said:

 

I'd probably be able to remember how to play a boatload of songs without printed music in front of me if we always played them in the same key. We play any given song in a number of keys depending on who is leading. I don't mind the odd song here and there, but if we play a few in the likes of Eb, that first to fourth fret stretch is a killer. No wonder some people switch to short scale! 

 

Is it normal to get your songs for Sunday morning after 6pm on Sat?! 

 

Yes, the church I used to try to be part of  thought that getting the songs out on the Thursday before, was getting them out early. 
 

I don’t miss this nonsense at all.  13 years of my life wasted.

Edited March 11, 2023 by xgsjx

[Risk101]

3 hours ago, dmc79 said:

 

I'd probably be able to remember how to play a boatload of songs without printed music in front of me if we always played them in the same key. We play any given song in a number of keys depending on who is leading. I don't mind the odd song here and there, but if we play a few in the likes of Eb, that first to fourth fret stretch is a killer. No wonder some people switch to short scale! 

 

Is it normal to get your songs for Sunday morning after 6pm on Sat?! 

 

To be fair, they did come earlier today, but normally we get them by Friday. Going back a few years though, you just turned up Sunday morning to find out! It never really bothered me though.

[Ralf1e]

12 hours ago, dmc79 said:

 

I'd probably be able to remember how to play a boatload of songs without printed music in front of me if we always played them in the same key. We play any given song in a number of keys depending on who is leading. I don't mind the odd song here and there, but if we play a few in the likes of Eb, that first to fourth fret stretch is a killer. No wonder some people switch to short scale! 

 

Is it normal to get your songs for Sunday morning after 6pm on Sat?! 

 

Sometimes it is but then again I have known them to be sent over on Sunday morning. I hope that isn't the case to 

the church I have moved to in the last 4 months.

I find a 5 string very helpfull with Eb etc as long as I remember I am one string adrift from a 4 string oops 🤣

I recently strung one of my 4 strings BEAD but haven't played it enough to feel confident with it yet.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Ralf1e
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