Playing in Church.

[Richard R]

Ours were the expensive PTZ optics ones, we were blessed by some generous donations. Not sure what you would get for £300, but digital PTZ are around £600.

[Owen]

Yep, paying more always gets nicer. However, we are trolling along happily with phone/iPod cameras so thinking there has to be something out there which will fit the bill without a massive bill.

[Risk101]

I’ll ask our guy what we use. It’s definitely a wall mounted PTZ.

[Bobo_08]

12 hours ago, Owen said:

We are now only going out on zoom. However, I think a PTZ camera we could mount under the balcony would tidy things up. I am more than aware that I could easily spend 4 figures and up on one, but the reality is we are doing absolutely fine with phone or iPod cameras on tripods so do not need the greatest doobrie in the world. Any real world suggestions? Spending under 300 would be great. Ta. 

I know my old church was basically using tripod mounted DSLR cameras for this.. worked well and really decent quality. Not as optimal as a PTZ camera, but it's another route.

[Risk101]

Our AV guy said “Our PTZ was £1200. I think you can get PTZs that cheap (he’s referring to the £300) but they are more glorified webcams I believe rather than straight hdmi or SDI video cameras. Mind you there are always bargains to be had on more expensive models”

[Nice Guy Rich]

My church are looking to get IEM’s (in ear monitors), if your church uses them, which ones do you use?

 

I’m thinking that a wireless IEM would be the best option to eliminate more cables trailing around.

[dmc79]

3 minutes ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

My church are looking to get IEM’s (in ear monitors), if your church uses them, which ones do you use?

 

I’m thinking that a wireless IEM would be the best option to eliminate more cables trailing around.

 

Shure SE215 Pro. They sound really good to me but as far as Shure goes, they are pretty much entry level. In region of £100 a set. 

 

[Nice Guy Rich]

@dmc79 Are these just the headphones?  As we currently use stage monitors, we’re going to need transmitters and receivers too, what do you use for these?

[dmc79]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

@dmc79 Are these just the headphones?  As we currently use stage monitors, we’re going to need transmitters and receivers too, what do you use for these?

 

The IEMs plug into Allen & Heath ME-500 personal mixers. These used to be on standalone pedestals, until someone realised we could clip them onto music / mic stands, thus removing clutter from the platform 

[Owen]

1 hour ago, Risk101 said:

Our AV guy said “Our PTZ was £1200. I think you can get PTZs that cheap (he’s referring to the £300) but they are more glorified webcams I believe rather than straight hdmi or SDI video cameras. Mind you there are always bargains to be had on more expensive models”

Thanks. That is the going rate for the grown up stuff. I am just looking around to see if there is anything which is "ok-ish" because it is bound to be a step up from our iPods and they are doing what we need just fine. 

[Owen]

8 hours ago, Bobo_08 said:

I know my old church was basically using tripod mounted DSLR cameras for this.. worked well and really decent quality. Not as optimal as a PTZ camera, but it's another route.

Thanks. We used a DSLR at the beginning but it would shut after a given amount of time and if I could find something which would pan and zoom from our control software that would be the bomb. 

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

My church are looking to get IEM’s (in ear monitors), if your church uses them, which ones do you use?

 

I’m thinking that a wireless IEM would be the best option to eliminate more cables trailing around.

We use a qu16 digital desk with  different monitor out, that goes to some headphone amplifiers at the front - long cables then take a feed from each amplified output to each musician. Musicians who care can then set their own mix using the Qu-you app and those who don’t ask the sound guy. Mostly it’s a mono signal but if you are super lucky you get a stereo feed. 
 

this mixing bit for me is super important- basically we’ve all been in enough churches to tell stories about dubious sound techs - allowing me to do my own mix reduces their workload, let’s me get my mix right and crucially decreases the ability of someone deafening me! 

musicians bring their own IEM, this can range from custom moulded what sits, to decent bottom range ultimate ears for me, Mee pro m6 or even just phone buds depending on the musician and how much they need to hear/care. 

 

Unless you need to move around a lot while you play I imagine a cable would be enough for most churches and save in cost, and for me a set of IEM is the musicians thing to source - much like you might bring a bass and amp. 
this sometimes seems to be a  harder concept for singers to grasp but to get started iPhone buds would just about work. It’s good to find a cheap but good ear phone that you can recommend as an upgrade, a few years back the Mee M6 pro were what we were suggesting at £25-30, affordable for those with middle class jobs and birthday present level for those without. 

[Richard R]

We have a Qu32 and are generally moving to IEM, fed from the desk mix/group outputs.

Some people bought their own wireless IEM transmitter/receiver packs (Gear 4 Music own brand I think), but we find they are intermittently hissy. Much more reliable have been the Behringer PowerPlay P2 wired IEM amps. There is a dip switch to select stereo/mono and we run them all as mono. (Stereo is nicer,  but uses too many channels).

For mixing we either have the engineer do the mix, or people use a phone app over WiFi. The A&H app is OK, and I would recommend that.I use MixingStation as it offers a lot more control, and I can adjust other people's foldback as well. In fact I can run the entire FOH, so we don't recommend it for most musicians. 

Hope that helps. Anyone who wants to come over to Solihull sometime is more than welcome. We learned by visiting others, so happy to pass on what we know.

[Owen]

6 hours ago, Owen said:

Thanks. We used a DSLR at the beginning but it would shut after a given amount of time and if I could find something which would pan and zoom from our control software that would be the bomb. 

Anyone tried those "whack one of these lenses on your phone and make it super zoom" doobries? Honestly, if it functioned then we would be good to go. 

[Risk101]

15 hours ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

My church are looking to get IEM’s (in ear monitors), if your church uses them, which ones do you use?

 

I’m thinking that a wireless IEM would be the best option to eliminate more cables trailing around.

Hi , for bass I’ve been using KZ ZS10 which give a great response and come with a range of ear fittings. At c£45 they’re pretty good value. I tried others but none could match the bass response.

We all have Behringer P1 units which work well. I have a 3m mini-Jack extension lead for the IEM in case I wander around!!

We all mix our own sound using the visi-listen app - I use an old iPad for that.

[nilorius]

Never had those 23 years that chance, but would absolutely love to !!!

[Ralf1e]

On 22/04/2023 at 16:56, Risk101 said:

Thanks for sharing this - all came across really well and nicely put together. Great team effort!

This is our today's effort with the first outing for the fretless P base bitza I recently showed on here in the build thread  and do understand this is the first time I played public fretless in about 30 years lol. It went well and felt blessed.

All constructive comments and advice warmly welcome. We are here to learn.

 

[Risk101]

Thanks for sharing! I do love the way your services are put together, with very professional pre-service material etc. 

The sound mix is also good and nice to hear the BVs clearly and to see their smiling faces.

In terms of the bass stuff, wow! If that’s the first time in some years on fretless you nailed it! Pitching sounded spot on. In terms of how it sounded though, I wonder if it could have been a bit more “legato” for the material? (Imo) The tone was strong on mids and hardly any low end (was listening on Bose QC45) so with a bit of tweaking it might sit better in the mix?

Thanks again for sharing

Edited May 23, 2023 by Risk101
Typo

[Ralf1e]

3 minutes ago, Risk101 said:

Thanks for sharing! I do love the way your services are put together, with very professional pre-service material etc. 

The sound mix is also good and nice to hear the BVs clearly and to see their smiling faces.

In terms of the bass stuff, wow! If that’s the first time in some years on fretless you nailed it! Pitching sounded spot on. In terms of how it sounded though, it could have been a bit more “legato” for the material? (Imo) and the tone was strong on mids and hardly any low end (was listening on Bose QC45) which made it sound a little “clunky” at times rather than blending into the mix. I’d stick to the Spector!!

Thanks again for sharing

Thanks for that. Andy who led it said previously he wanted to do it as a kind of acoustic thing hence my offer to go fretless or ubass for him. He also asked for held notes in certain parts and to the beat in others. I don't know where the bottom end went. Maybe just because I wasn't using the 5 string. I do just 12 oclock the tone settings on the little valve amp and the desk do thier thing with what's di boxed out of the effects send at line level.

I like the way we can share with each other on here and get encouraged and advised. It's good for me to get feedback from a pair of ears that wasn't there.

Sometimes when things could be better and peple don't say so, kindness can kill you 😀.

[Richard R]

Today was fun. I was on FOH sound, for a band comprising 4 vox, keys, acoustic rhythm guitar, violin and drums. At the practice on Friday the WL asked if I could play bass on Oceans, as it needed depth (his pun!). 

Two options, play from the back, or set up on stage and take the iPad to do the mix from there. Our services are now quite free-flowing,  so I opted to stay at the desk where I could see and hear everything. Come the song, the first line was just the vocals then  I came in on the second line with the low B, C#, D.  Which sounded great, but confused at least some of the congregation who wondered where the bass was coming from. 😁 

 

Happy Pentecost Sunday everyone!

[IanA]

A bit rough and ready but this is our livestream from last night… bass player needs sacking😂

 

[LeftyP]

I am very blessed to be part of a thriving and active church.  Each Sunday morning we have over 100 people in our cramped building (we are looking for larger premises) with dozens of children, students and young adults.  At 72 years of age I am old enough to be most of the congregations granddad!  There are many activities during the week for all age groups and this weekend we had our Weekend Away.

The church decamped to a facility run by the Scouts/Guides just out of town and what a time we had!  The weather was hot and sunny and some people camped while others used the on-site dormitories.  My wife and I live ten minutes away so we slept in our own beds!

 

We were playing in the small band made up of semi-acoustic guitar, keyboard, Cajon, bass guitar (me) and vocal (my wife).  What a response we had from our members who sang the choice of songs with gusto. You don't need a big band when the congregation don't hold back.  Friday night started with a ceilidh which was preceded by a meal.  Saturday morning brought two meetings with good Bible teaching and singing and the youngsters had their own Bible themed activities out in the sun.  After lunch the afternoon was full of fun with adventure games (water was involved) and a chance to explore the vast fields and woodland paths.  Another early evening meeting was followed by another meal!  We returned to our church building for the Sunday morning service before returning to the site for a lunchtime picnic.  The whole event was a great way to get to know the wider church family and enjoy good Christian fellowship.  The weather could not have been better! 

 

Playing in the church band is a great privilege and it certainly keeps me on my toes and makes me pick up the bass every day.  Much of what I play is pretty simple because that is all the songs need but I do slip in the odd riff now and again.  I would recommend anyone here who attends church to join the music group.  I only play about once every three weeks as we have a rota but I practise the songs for the weeks I am not scheduled for just in case I get called in at the last minute.  Roll on the next event!

 

 

 

[Richard R]

Church Weekends Away are fabulous events. Glad your Church was able to do this, and you enjoyed playing. 

[Minininjarob]

On 01/05/2023 at 23:38, Owen said:

Anyone tried those "whack one of these lenses on your phone and make it super zoom" doobries? Honestly, if it functioned then we would be good to go. 

At our church we started with nice consumer level digital video cameras which had to be manned and did take a lot of setup - we had an analogue vision mixer which was pretty limited but we were chuffed to have it as it was more than a lot of churches have. When we moved to our new built for us building they soon started to struggle to get a decent image from the back of the auditorium (we won’t have cameras at the front as it would be distracting) but we persevered until they eventually broke and we have to buy something new. 
We now have couple of Black Magic design studio 4k cameras for the camera operators and another smaller static BM camera (don’t know the model). It’s all controlled from our vision desk with a touch screen PC controller (and various other complex boxes I don’t understand). We use long zoom lenses to get to the stage which isn’t perfect and is t cheap but it works for us. 
The only negatives they have don’t really make a difference to us and I’ve been impressed with their quality, we’ve had them 4 years now and they are rock solid. 
Worth a look I think. 
Pic shows control desk. Right hand side is Mac which controls all the words/PowerPoints/backgrounds etc. left hand side is mixer side, one screen for inputs, other screen is outputs and screen at bottom is controller. Run off a Mac Mini. Little screen in the centre is a Black Magic mobile recording thing which we put in SD cards to record each service live, hopefully good enough so it doesn’t need much editing  (maybe not when I do the mixing!)

Edited June 12, 2023 by Minininjarob

[Minininjarob]

I am a relative beginner bassist and I would really love to play in our church band, we are a bit short on bassists so I need to put a lot of practice in!

We have been really blessed to be able to put in an amazing PA in our new building. We have a couple of pro audio engineers in our congregation who have been so invaluable to making the most of our system, teaching people how to use a system which I would never stand a chance of understanding. 
Info here if you are interested, I don’t understand what most of the set up is! I just know there’s a lot of flashy lights. 
https://www.sseaudio.com/Installations/Churches-Cathedrals/Cathedral-House-Huddersfield