Playing in Church.

[bass_dinger]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

People turning up without their instrument and then wondering why they can't play.

Please, can you share how that works!

 

Do they  stand at the front, looking at their empty hands, and wonder why nothing is happening?

 

Do they say "but why am I not allowed to play!?"

[Risk101]

Sounds like a lack of leadership to me. The kind of stuff you mention would just not be accepted at our church. The time for giving people an “opportunity” to learn or hone their skills is the mid week worship team evenings not a public service!

[Nice Guy Rich]

My Pros list only consists of;

1. I love playing as music is my passion.
2. I get to serve God and the church.
3. I'm improving as a musician.

There isn't actually anybody officially in charge but, I honestly doubt that it would change anything if there was.  I could run the Worship Team but I know that I'd end up losing people by telling a few home truths.  The general consensus is that it's voluntary so we can't ask too much of people and, everyone has lives outside the church and so what if they miss a few rehearsals and pull out at the last minute.

 

I had to lead worship two Sundays running because somebody else, who was down to lead that week, didn't want to, they felt that because they had led worship three weeks before, it was too close to the last time.....well me leading two Sundays running is a lot closer together than three weeks apart you knob.  It drives me f**king mad and all I get told, is to relax and don't get stressed.  I get stressed because I actually give a f*ck, I take my music very seriously and when I play, I give God the best I can offer.

 

I'm easy going but, even I've come close to punching people due their lack of commitment and how they don't give a sh*t.  I get to every rehearsal and every service at least 30-40 minutes early, I turn everything on, set up the PA and get everything ready, the others then rock up 10-20 minutes after we were due to actually start playing and then the usual bullsh*t begins; "sorry I'm late", "l need a coffee before we start", "what songs are we playing?", "how does this song go?", "I forgot my [BLANK] can I borrow yours?", "has anybody got the music, I never printed it off", "I haven't even listened to the songs yet", "I've just go to take this call"....

 

Sometimes we don't even have a rehearsal before the Sunday because most of the others have something more important to do, we then all turn up on Sunday morning with no time to run through the songs and I know that someone won't have even listened to the songs and will play bum notes throughout the entire service and make us all sound like idiots.

 

I really don't want to quit but it's getting close to it.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Nice Guy Rich

[ezbass]

5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

There isn't actually anybody officially in charge but, I honestly doubt that it would change anything if there was.  The general consensus is that it's voluntary so we can't ask too much of people and, everyone has lives outside the church and so what if they miss a few rehearsals and pull out at the last minute.

Sounds like the whole thing should be scrapped. I don’t get the sense that these folk care much about their worship. 

[Nice Guy Rich]

They say that they care but, their actions say otherwise.

 

I refuse to give in and be beaten by the apathy of others, I'm going to pray long and hard and, if God wants me to put myself forward to run the Worship Team, I will.

 

[Nice Guy Rich]

18 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

Please, can you share how that works!

 

Do they  stand at the front, looking at their empty hands, and wonder why nothing is happening?

 

Do they say "but why am I not allowed to play!?"

 

Luckily for them, it wasn't a rehearsal that I was at.  I would've verbally torn them to shreds and made them sing the basslines.

[ezbass]

29 minutes ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

They say that they care but, their actions say otherwise.

Not my first exposure to that scenario.

 

30 minutes ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

if God wants me to put myself forward to run the Worship Team, I will.

And the potential alienation that goes with it? Be very careful, the whole thing could sour your relationship with the church. You might find yourself on the end of some very unchristian behaviour - "They say that they care but, their actions say otherwise," the evidence is already there. Best of luck with what you decide.

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

My Pros list only consists of;

1. I love playing as music is my passion.
2. I get to serve God and the church.
3. I'm improving as a musician.

There isn't actually anybody officially in charge but, I honestly doubt that it would change anything if there was.  I could run the Worship Team but I know that I'd end up losing people by telling a few home truths.  The general consensus is that it's voluntary so we can't ask too much of people and, everyone has lives outside the church and so what if they miss a few rehearsals and pull out at the last minute.

 

I had to lead worship two Sundays running because somebody else, who was down to lead that week, didn't want to, they felt that because they had led worship three weeks before, it was too close to the last time.....well me leading two Sundays running is a lot closer together than three weeks apart you knob.  It drives me f**king mad and all I get told, is to relax and don't get stressed.  I get stressed because I actually give a f*ck, I take my music very seriously and when I play, I give God the best I can offer.

 

I'm easy going but, even I've come close to punching people due their lack of commitment and how they don't give a sh*t.  I get to every rehearsal and every service at least 30-40 minutes early, I turn everything on, set up the PA and get everything ready, the others then rock up 10-20 minutes after we were due to actually start playing and then the usual bullsh*t begins; "sorry I'm late", "l need a coffee before we start", "what songs are we playing?", "how does this song go?", "I forgot my [BLANK] can I borrow yours?", "has anybody got the music, I never printed it off", "I haven't even listened to the songs yet", "I've just go to take this call"....

 

Sometimes we don't even have a rehearsal before the Sunday because most of the others have something more important to do, we then all turn up on Sunday morning with no time to run through the songs and I know that someone won't have even listened to the songs and will play bum notes throughout the entire service and make us all sound like idiots.

 

I really don't want to quit but it's getting close to it.

 

 

Maybe a comparable analogy…

 

You join your pub Sunday league football team. Everyone rucks up on Sunday, some hung over, some just wscaping the kids for a bit. 
where’s the training, where’s the physio? The game plan and organised automations like you used to work on back when you used to play for West Ham?

 

it’s different - maybe you turning up early and working so hard means the rest of the team don’t pull their weight cos you are always doing too much for them? Maybe a break would be good for everyone, you unwind and enjoy a rest, they realise how much you contribute and when you come back the understanding of your value is there, and maybe also it’s Sunday league - not West Ham level 

[Rich]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

There isn't actually anybody officially in charge but, I honestly doubt that it would change anything if there was.  I could run the Worship Team but I know that I'd end up losing people by telling a few home truths.  The general consensus is that it's voluntary so we can't ask too much of people and, everyone has lives outside the church and so what if they miss a few rehearsals and pull out at the last minute.

 

This alone would infuriate me beyond words, and make me walk without looking back. It's not even an amateur attitude, it's a disrespectful one.

[Dad3353]

I'd respectfully suggest an anger management course. 

[Rich]

[Nice Guy Rich]

@LukeFRC  If I stopped getting there early, nobody else would step up and then, we'd be starting 40-60 minutes late.

 

@Dad3353 I can assure you that I'm not angry, I'm passionate.

 

@Rich It's beyond disrespectful, it's sometimes seems like it's done on purpose.

 

Part of the problem is that I'm thorough, I send my songs out at least a week in advance (others do it 2-3 days before the service and then wonder why we can't play a seven song medley of songs we've never played before).  I print out in advance, a detailed sheet for the Tech Team of how I've structured the songs (verse 1, chorus, verse 2 etc) whilst others try to write it on the back of fag packet, 2 minutes before the service starts.

 

I try to lead by example but unfortunately, most people see my efforts as a chance for them to do bugger all and they want everyone else to come down to their level. 

 

 

[Dad3353]

40 minutes ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

... most people see my efforts as a chance for them to do bugger all and they want everyone else to come down to their level. 

 

This is exactly the type of reflection that Anger Management can help with. Still, your call. Peace. 

[Rich]

I see that as exasperation, not anger. Entirely justified exasperation, if you ask me.

[Nice Guy Rich]

To save my sanity, I've decided to work to rule and only do exactly what I'm asked to do and nothing more.

 

If there's a gap that needs filling...not my problem.

 

If someone forgets their music...not my problem.

 

If someone forgets their instrument...not my problem.

 

If someone can't make rehearsal...not my problem.

 

It's not for me to wipe the behinds of others, I'm going to sit back and watch the chaos unfold.

 

[bass_dinger]

In normal bands, or in football clubs, the better players would graduate to better set ups, and the poor quality players would be kicked out, or leave.  That would allow @Nice Guy Rich to work with people at his level.

 

In a church, you are stuck with the people in the congregation - it's a small pool of talent, with a big shallow end.  Thus we find people who are taking YouTube lessons on the instrument that they got for Christmas, in the same band as a professor of jazz drumming....

 

 

[ezbass]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

To save my sanity, I've decided to work to rule and only do exactly what I'm asked to do and nothing more.

 

If there's a gap that needs filling...not my problem.

 

If someone forgets their music...not my problem.

 

If someone forgets their instrument...not my problem.

 

If someone can't make rehearsal...not my problem.

 

It's not for me to wipe the behinds of others, I'm going to sit back and watch the chaos unfold.

 

Very wise.

[Dad3353]

[oldslapper]

“Unrealistic expectations are the building blocks of resentment”. Some insightful person once said.
 

It appears your expectations are unrealistic my friend. Been there, done that, gave them all a big hug and walked away.
There are many ways to express your faith through your gift/passion. Find (or create) an opportunity that doesn’t make you unhappy. 
You’ll not change people through “tearing them a new one”.
It’s a culture, don’t take it personally. 
Hugs. 

[Richard R]

I would have a chat with the minister as well. It may be that worship isn't considered as important in your church compared to teaching, or mission, or helping the poor for example. Different churches are good at different things, or emphasise different things. (One body, many parts sort of thing, but at a bigger scale).

The minister may not wave a major wand/ verse of scripture/ ruddy great stick  and sort things out, but they may have an insight more personal to your church.

 

(If you're happy for me to do so then  I'll share this post with our worship group. They would definitely want to pray for your group).

[Risk101]

If this was happening at my church, then I think I would want to take a break/stand back a bit, and if I was in a large enough town/city spend some weeks attending another church to allow myself to gain some sanity and perspective.  I see you are in East London, so there should be loads of places to go and get some refreshment? The bottom line is that we are there to offer up our skills and serve, but if the attitudes and approach of others are as toxic as you indicate, I don't see how that can happen without some sort of divine intervention!

 

You clearly feel very passionately about the musical element of worship and so I wonder if there is a leader or leadership team that you can ask to meet to share your frustrations - they might equally want to see what happens change for the better. 

 

Thinking of you - if you want to meet up for a chat I'm in London Tues-Thurs for work near Liverpool St Station.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Risk101

[Nice Guy Rich]

@Risk101 As much as it would be good to meet up, I work nowhere near the City.

 

I'm fine, it's just that sometimes I naively assume that others will have the same passion, focus, enthusiasm, drive and commitment as myself, talk about setting myself up for disappointment LOL.

 

I just needed to have a rant to likeminded musicians to get it out of my system.

 

I initially joined the worship team as a bass player but now, I play bass, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, I sing lead vocals and I lead worship.  I suppose it's because I fill a lot of different roles that more gets asked of me.  I LOVE playing in the worship team and I'm going to focus on the fact that I'm playing more music now at 55 than I ever did when I was in my teens and 20's.  I will continue to serve God and my church, I will continue to "praise him with the strings." Psalm 150:4 😃

Edited November 2, 2023 by Nice Guy Rich

[LukeFRC]

29 minutes ago, Nice Guy Rich said:

@Risk101 As much as it would be good to meet up, I work nowhere near the City.

 

I'm fine, it's just that sometimes I naively assume that others will have the same passion, focus, enthusiasm, drive and commitment as myself, talk about setting myself up for disappointment LOL.

 

I just needed to have a rant to likeminded musicians to get it out of my system.

 

I initially joined the worship team as a bass player but now, I play bass, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, I sing lead vocals and I lead worship.  I suppose it's because I fill a lot of different roles that more gets asked of me.  I LOVE playing in the worship team and I'm going to focus on the fact that I'm playing more music now at 55 than I ever did when I was in my teens and 20's.  I will continue to serve God and my church, I will continue to "praise him with the strings." Psalm 150:4 😃

You’re doing too much.
 

I’ve had spells where I end up over committing to things, been too busy. The first sign you can tell is getting impatient and having a lack of compassion and care for others. 

 

which is ok, it happens: step back and refocus in a positive way. 
 

also the Message translation/paraphrase of Amos 5:21-24 is worth a read.

[GoodShowSir]

Just echoing others here. Don't be afraid to take a break for a while if its all getting to you! When I got to a certain point a while ago my wife wisely said, "There's a difference between needing to take a break and having to take a break." I would recommend to protect yourself a little and try not to get to the point where you are forced to take one.

 

Go on sound desk where no one takes note or thanks you

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by GoodShowSir

[jimbobothy]

Luke FRC's suggestion:

 

21 "I can't stand your religious meetings. I'm fed up with your conferences and conventions.

22 I want nothing to do with your religion projects, your pretentious slogans and goals. I'm sick of your fund-raising schemes, your public relations and image making.

23 I've had all I can take of your noisy ego-music. When was the last time you sang to me?

24 Do you know what I want? I want justice - oceans of it. I want fairness - rivers of it. That's what I want. That's all I want.

 

The modern translation certainly hits home more that others!