Maude Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I've just watched this on YouTube and thought I'd share. Really quite interesting and some useful information, but mainly just enjoyable and the sound they got in the end was almost bang on, if being critical it still sounded too clear and modern/hi-fi but maybe that's just unavoidable with today's digital way of recording and consuming music, computers rather than tape/vinyl. 🙂 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 It's not the digital aspect at all, that's a huge myth. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, 51m0n said: It's not the digital aspect at all, that's a huge myth. Yeah I've no real idea, I'm not that up on the engineering side of things, which is probably why I found the clip interesting. I do know though that if I play the same bass through the same preamp into my old Yamaha MT8X and my almost as old Fostex DMT8, the cassette doesn't sound as clean a reproduction as the digital. Surely that's the result of digital over cassette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Ok so cassette is not reel to reel for one thing. The noise floor on reel to reel is way way way lower than cassette. Tape compression and saturation is a huge part of the sound of vintage recording techniques. I can't stress that enough. People didn't have millions of plugins. They didn't even have dozens of pieces of outboard gear. Even Motown. They built what they needed themselves. Including the DI that Jameson used to get his bass down, yep Motown bass was DI'ed! But they did have tape, which as you start to drive it saturates really nicely and compresses too. But these days you can get lovely tape compression/saturation emulation on all channels. It's more the room and players IMO. Watch Standing In The Shadow of Motown. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, 51m0n said: Ok so cassette is not reel to reel for one thing. The noise floor on reel to reel is way way way lower than cassette. Tape compression and saturation is a huge part of the sound of vintage recording techniques. I can't stress that enough. People didn't have millions of plugins. They didn't even have dozens of pieces of outboard gear. Even Motown. They built what they needed themselves. Including the DI that Jameson used to get his bass down, yep Motown bass was DI'ed! But they did have tape, which as you start to drive it saturates really nicely and compresses too. But these days you can get lovely tape compression/saturation emulation on all channels. It's more the room and players IMO. Watch Standing In The Shadow of Motown. Absolutely, and SITSOM is essential viewing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 ...and buy the book. You get lots of stuff to practise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 And I'm going to be crude, but those guys at Motown had ears which is something that seems to be disappearing in this digital world. If you've got some (ears), you can get that Motown sound without any problem even with totally digital gear. Do we have to start that compressor and digital versus analogic war again ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 There's a ton of great engineers and producers with good ears. Most people aren't looking to sound exactly like Motown these days. And very very few players that sound even close to the real essence of that Motown Funk Brothers greese.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Interesting video. Much cleaner than the original recordings. Also interesting that Motown high passed the tracks at 70hz. They had world class songs and singers, but boil it all down, what really makes Motown sound like Motown? IMO it starts and ends with James Jamerson's bass playing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Bob Babbitt on line two for you... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalpy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Doctor J said: Bob Babbitt on line two for you... Is that via Derek Acorah? Oo, hang on a minute.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Fascinating clip. Must have been great fun to make. Ain't No Mountain High Enough is a few BPM short though, isn't it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 What struck me was how 'simple' / easy/uncomplicated it all was (aside from the actual studio clockwork of course). At the end of the day, the Funk Brothers were Motown, and Motown was the Funk Brothers......... If you've not watched Standing in the Shadows of Motown, just do it (please!) 😎 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Doctor J said: Bob Babbitt on line two for you... The Funk Brothers put in thousands of hours playing together, in the studio and on gigs. They supported Jamerson with his complex "issues" and when his confidence and ego reached a tipping point he burst out with his world shattering bass lines. Bob Babbitt was very good, Midnight Train To Georgia has a great bass tone, but take Babbitt away and you still have Motown, take Jamerson away and you just have another, albeit very good, recording label. Without Jamerson we'd just be taking about the songs and the singers, not the label. Babbitt, David Hood, Tommy Cogbill, Mike Leech, Duck Dunn, Carol Kaye are the cream of studio bass players but none of them changed bass playing. James Jamerson did, and made it look easy. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 hours ago, taunton-hobbit said: What struck me was how 'simple' / easy/uncomplicated it all was Anything is if you have the right ingredients. They could all properly play. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalpy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, owen said: Anything is if you have the right ingredients. They could all properly play. Quality material as well- the most important and over looked ingredient. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, scalpy said: Quality material as well- the most important and over looked ingredient. Exactly this, if the songs weren't any good we wouldn't be discussing the musicians today. It was just one of those things when all the right ingredients were in the bowl at the same time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 https://www.popmatters.com/motown-music-money-sex-and-power-2496243571.html .......... worth a read ........... 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford13 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Loved this video. I am a studio geek and really like watching what gear people are using to get sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 ^ ^ you might like this ? http://evestudios.co.uk/studios/ 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 14 hours ago, chris_b said: Interesting video. Much cleaner than the original recordings. Also interesting that Motown high passed the tracks at 70hz. We do something similar, but at a round 30/35hz. It really makes a difference, and we don`t use a lot of low-end in the first place. Maybe without doing it at 70 the Motown recordings - due to the amount going on - sounded muddy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 hours ago, taunton-hobbit said: https://www.popmatters.com/motown-music-money-sex-and-power-2496243571.html .......... worth a read ........... A forthright article, pulling no punches. Sadly Gordy's business style wasn't unique. He was only one of many business men and managers in the music business who was seriously ripping off the artists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Lozz196 said: We do something similar, but at a round 30/35hz. It really makes a difference, and we don`t use a lot of low-end in the first place. Maybe without doing it at 70 the Motown recordings - due to the amount going on - sounded muddy? They were in a loudness war with the Beatles. Loudest single sounded the best on a jukebox. An HPF meant you could cut louder without the bass popping the needle out of the groove.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 13 hours ago, Doctor J said: Bob Babbitt on line two for you... Much as I love Jamerson's bass playing, Signed, Sealed Delivered and Inner City Blues remain two of my favourite songs and both have Bob Babbitt on bass. From a UK perspective, volume wars on singles on juke boxes would have featured few Motown singles (probably half a dozen) until the very late 60s - the Beatles possibly had that many singles in the charts at the same time in the early 60s. They were in competition with bands like the Hollies, Herman's Hermits and other acts like Lulu and Tom Jones. Motown was very obviously important but let's get things in perspective. We all noticed the bass playing (even though it wasn't very audible to us at the time). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) Motown was in a loudness war with the Beatles in the US matey. There is documented evidence that they could not get their releases as loud as the Beatles' 7" singles in an article by their mastering engineer at the time. Search for Bob Ohlsson on Gearsluts IIRC... Edited January 5, 2020 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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