Pedal DI Outputs - Are they all line level?

[adamg67]

I've never really undertood DI on pedals and amps being line level when a DI box, with the same output jack, produces mic levels. It's easy enough to use an XLR -> TRS cable and I do at home, but for gigs it seems to throw some (admittedly fairly amateur, or maybe just old school) sound engineers. Just the thing of having the same connector handle two kinds of signal seems weird.

Case in point is the DG Vintage Microtubes Ultra I just bought, where the DI is line level. Are all powered DI pedals like that? It seems like when the stage has a snake the XLR cables all go to the mic inputs on the desk, so if you have line level DI do you put it through a nice clean passive DI box, or do you try and get it run into a  line input on the desk? Or am I just missing something?

My passive Radial JDI is mic level, as are most things that call themselves "DI Boxes" as far as I can tell, and that has caused way fewer problems than anything else, no power required either, but obviously not much flexibility which is why I was after a pedal with a few more options and DI out. Are there any like that which produce mic level?

Edited January 5, 2020 by adamg67

[itu]

The main issue here is that the signal of the bass is transformed to low impedance. Lo-Z signal suits desks.

The level of the signal can be tweaked in the mixer input with an adjustable gain. Easy as that.

[adamg67]

6 minutes ago, itu said:

The main issue here is that the signal of the bass is transformed to low impedance. Lo-Z signal suits desks.

The level of the signal can be tweaked in the mixer input with an adjustable gain. Easy as that.

The DI out from the darglass seems massively too hot for a mic input, it's not a case of tweaking it, it's a case of having to turn everything down to absolute minimum and then if you accidentally press the "bypass" footswitch (or wanted to use just the cab sim) you will suddenly get a signal that sends all the meters very red. It's line level, so literally 1,000 times the voltage of mic level.

[itu]

I read the user manual, which states that some adjustments can be done via USB. It is worth a try.

I do admit that it is somewhat peculiar, that bypass is not adjustable with the master, or like some trimmer like others. If the USB does not solve this, the unit behaves somewhat badly. Please do comment after trying that software.

[paul_c2]

"An XLR socket across different equipment does not a consistent signal level make".

[adamg67]

10 hours ago, itu said:

I read the user manual, which states that some adjustments can be done via USB. It is worth a try.

I do admit that it is somewhat peculiar, that bypass is not adjustable with the master, or like some trimmer like others. If the USB does not solve this, the unit behaves somewhat badly. Please do comment after trying that software.

Ah, it never occured to me that I might be able to change it via USB, I'll check that out.

Doing a bit more reading, it seems like a common problem with amps and DI, many of them use line level from a balanced XLR and at least some sound engineers don't know how to deal with that at the desk. It looks inconsistent with pedals - some definitely do DI like a DI box would (MXR, Palmer pocket amp, Bassbone).

[adamg67]

There's nothing in the Darkglass software to change the DI, I think they have just gone for the amp approach of line level DI, but with an XLR socket. It's probably the same circuit they use in amps.

I might get hold of one of these to stick in my gig bag for the times when the sound bod isn't happy with line level: https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/accessories/a15la

[dannybuoy]

Studio Spares sell a bunch of those cheaply, at different attenuation levels. I bought one for my old Orange Terror Bass which has the hottest DI known to man, but only got a -20dB one which isn't nearly enough!

[adamg67]

21 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

Studio Spares sell a bunch of those cheaply, at different attenuation levels. I bought one for my old Orange Terror Bass which has the hottest DI known to man, but only got a -20dB one which isn't nearly enough!

I think a few people do switchable ones, I'll have a look around.

[Tech21NYC]

Mic, instrument and line level are really operational ranges to consider when interfacing with different gear. None of these levels are constant like a voltage measurement. It helps to understand all the devices you are using to get the optimum signal to noise ratio and levels. If the person at the mixer doesn't know how to adjust for varying levels, that's a problem. You basically want enough gain to match levels with the other inputs and enough headroom so there won't be any channel overload on the peaks. We measured the output level of one of our passive bass guitars. Playing lightly the signal level was around -12dbB which is instrument level. Playing an eighth note pattern a bit harder the level was around -8dB. Slapping aggressively on the low E the level peaked at around 0dB which is considered consumer line level. This is why the channel strip has to be gain staged properly.

Most modern mixers can accommodate a wide range of signal levels from microphone to instrument level. My inexpensive Soundcraft mixer that I use for small gigs has a -15dB pad and 60dB of preamp gain. It easily works with anything I plug into it.