Disappointing experiance with new basses.

[binky_bass]

I went into a large, well know, music store over the weekend to get rid of one of my basses (for a very good price surprisingly!), naturally while I was there I had a play on a few basses, and naturally gravitated towards the more expensive side of things! I played 3 different basses, all between £1400 and £2000 in price, and I was utterly disappointed with all of them! Each one clearly had absolutely no kind of set up whatsoever, the action on all of them was sky high, the fit and finish of two of them was really quite poor and they just felt cheap in hand...

The fit and finish isn't the stores fault, but I would really expect the store to look at the 'delivery set up' of these expensive basses and adjust them where necessary, the Ibanez I played (which had a price tag of £1399) was borderline unplayable. I know action is reasonably subjective, but this was silly... In order to sell these basses, surely they need to present them in a manner that befits the price they are asking? As mentioned, the finish was particularly poor too, the rear of the bass looked pitted with noticeably uneven lacquering. The other two basses weren't much better, one being a Dingwall, which I was surprised at.

With the Ibanez, if I was blindfolded, given it to play and then asked how much I though it was worth, I would have absolutely said sub £200 at a push.

I was considering putting it down to being a bit spoilt in terms of what I'm used to playing, but I don't think that's the case as I have a mid-nineties Tanglewood Baron 6 string bass, and have owned a couple of Cort A6 basses and the build quality and general finish and tone (particularly on the Tanglewood) is remarkably good, better than some well know, eye-wateringly expensive basses I've played and FAR better than the three I played over the weekend by several country miles.

Has anyone else experienced this? Playing 'expensive' instruments and being left utterly underwhelmed and somewhat surprised at the general lack of quality? Maybe the three I played were just not great examples, but I suspect that isn't the case.

 

[ambient]

They’ve probably been unpacked and put straight out on display.

This is why I like Bass Direct. Everything I’ve ever played there has been looked at and setup prior to going on display. It might not be set up how I want it, but we’re all different.

The Bass Gallery is the same.

 

[binky_bass]

See that is exactly what I would do if I owned such a store... god know this particular store had enough employees lurking around. If I was management I'd set someone to work at setting up (to a reasonable degree) all the instruments as and when they are delivered. 

There's a little music shop near me in Billericay and they sell your typical Squires, Epiphones and other such low cost instruments, but they set up every single one of them regardless of their retail cost and you can absolutely tell. It also give the buyer (often a total newbie player) a fair chance at playing an instrument and liking it. If you buy a squire or similar with sky high action I can see people being out of from playing due to the difficulties in actually playing the instrument without pain and intonation issues. 

[Len_derby]

4 minutes ago, ambient said:

They’ve probably been unpacked and put straight out on display.

This is why I like Bass Direct. Everything I’ve ever played there has been looked at and setup prior to going on display. It might not be set up how I want it, but we’re all different.

The Bass Gallery is the same.

 

I agree with this one. One the reasons I haven't bought a new instrument from a retailer (online or bricks n' mortar) since 2005.

[Maude]

The cynic in me says they're left like that as most folks looking to spend that kind of money aren't beginners and will know a good set up to their preference will sort it, so the shop can then sell a set up for £80 or whatever it costs. 

The £80 set up is actual money in the shops till whereas profit on the £2k bass might not be much more. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Maude

[krispn]

1 minute ago, Maude said:

The cynic in me says they're left like that as most folks looking to spend that kind of money aren't beginners and will know a good set up to their preference will sort it, so the shop can then sell a set up for £80 or whatever it costs. 

I was just about to say the same thing!

[binky_bass]

That to me is false economy. I'm not prepared to spend that level of money on a 'brand new' bass without being damn sure it can do what I want it to do. To buy it with a terrible 'as delivered' set up means I'm not buying it period. I may as well just spend my money (which I always do!) on the second hand market, at least that way if I buy something and it's set up poorly, and I then set it up, if I STILL don't like it, I can sell it without losing and arm and a leg and a kidney.

A good shop should present their instruments in the best way to get them sold, so you can play a bass and 'fall in love', having a target market of people who can do their own set up is a little short sighted and quite foolish in my humble opinion!

[Burns-bass]

I went to PMT and was prepared for this experience but thankfully, the bass I played was well set up and the guy working there very helpful.

I’d be disappointed if I’d gone to a shop and had this experience, but they’re not all the same.

[Maude]

2 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

That to me is false economy. I'm not prepared to spend that level of money on a 'brand new' bass without being damn sure it can do what I want it to do. To buy it with a terrible 'as delivered' set up means I'm not buying it period. I may as well just spend my money (which I always do!) on the second hand market, at least that way if I buy something and it's set up poorly, and I then set it up, if I STILL don't like it, I can sell it without losing and arm and a leg and a kidney.

A good shop should present their instruments in the best way to get them sold, so you can play a bass and 'fall in love', having a target market of people who can do their own set up is a little short sighted and quite foolish in my humble opinion!

I totally agree, but lots of different types of shops do lots of things that make me walk out without considering buying anything. 

I certainly wouldn't put an instrument on the wall without it being set up and in tune, with in reason, if I had a shop. 

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Who'd pay £80 for a setup on a new instrument? Seems a bit high when the Gallery charges £35 when you bring your own instrument in for a setup.

Surely a bass should always have a 'one size fits all' set up if its on the shop floor for people to try out.

A beginner probably won't be able to tell the difference between a decent bass that badly needs a setup and a crappy bass.

[Maude]

1 minute ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

Who'd pay £80 for a setup on a new instrument? Seems a bit high when the Gallery charges £35 when you bring your own instrument in for a setup.

I don't know, I've never paid for a set up. It's one of the simplist things in the world to do so I'd never pay someone, hence why I said, "or whatever it costs". 

[Guest]

If you went to try a new car and all of the cars had flat tyres and no petrol would you buy from them? A baseline setup can be done pretty quickly - other than the neck moving what else cannot be done by the factory and be ready to play? It’s not like they’re selling millions of them. Each instrument should have a final inspection including setup to known specs. Assuming the neck hasn’t moved (and a quick tweak of the truss rod can fix that), all new basses should be ready to play out of the box.

[FinnDave]

16 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

I went to PMT and was prepared for this experience but thankfully, the bass I played was well set up and the guy working there very helpful.

My experience of the Oxford PMT is the same - everything I have tried there has been well set-up. I tried and then bought a fairly expensive Sandberg there last Saturday and have since gigged it happily without touching the set-up at all.

[Burns-bass]

4 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

If you went to try a new car and all of the cars had flat tyres and no petrol would you buy from them? A baseline setup can be done pretty quickly - other than the neck moving what else cannot be done by the factory and be ready to play? It’s not like they’re selling millions of them. Each instrument should have a final inspection including setup to known specs. Assuming the neck hasn’t moved (and a quick tweak of the truss rod can fix that), all new basses should be ready to play out of the box.

Surely set up is a matter of preference too?

Many shops assume that the factory QC would have done this.

[Muzz]

I was in PMT to try out combos, but the first bass I was handed was a Fender Precision of some sort (not too sure the exact model, but it was £899), and it was a dog of a thing, setup-wise. The G string was choking on the plastic cover for the pickup which had wrinkled, so I said "D'you want me to take this off?" and the answer was "Erm, no..."  It went back on the wall without being touched...

I got a BB434 next, which was better (the strings were in the same post code as the fretboard, at least), but if anything, this was too low, as it was a bucket of buzzes...and I don't mind a bit of fretbuzz...

If I'd been in the market for a new bass, I really wouldn't have bothered...

I also ordered a brand new 4003 a few years ago from GAK (at £1600), and that was terrible, too...it went back the next day...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Burns-bass said:

Surely set up is a matter of preference too?

Many shops assume that the factory QC would have done this.

That’s why I said baseline (geddit ;)) setup. If it’s in the middle then those that prefer a lower or higher setup can at least play it. If the neck is shaped like a banana or the strings are choking on the top fret the majority of bass players will find it almost unplayable. Factory QC is for another thread but in theory it makes sense (other than temp and humidity changes in transit making the neck move). 

[Muzz]

3 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Surely set up is a matter of preference too?

Many shops assume that the factory QC would have done this.

Preferences aside, anyone who works in a music shop with any sort of interest in their job who actually played either of the basses I was handed should have spotted a badly set up instrument immediately.

[Dood]

IMHO, after factory set up, every instrument should be looked at once they have settled wherever they are going to be sold (shop etc).

The "final" set up here should be, as FDC suggests a middle ground where the set up is as low as it can be but still allow for no buzzes, rattles and produce a good tone. Everyone then will know the action can go higher to suit them.

 Conversely, when taking an instrument off the hook whose action is sky high, well, the alarm bells start ringing. Why? well, just one example would be that a much higher action at the bridge could suggest a problem with the finish of the fretwork. Lifting the action higher can hide those poorly installed frets causing rattle like nobody's business. Buyer won't know this until they have got the bass home for a tweak. 

So, if a bass plays badly off the hook, there's a good chance I will leave it, unless a set up is offered for free. Like FDC says, if I want to buy a new car, there's a difference between just having to move the seat back/ adjust the mirrors, verses the clutch biting point being right at the top of the pedal travel, or the headlights facing the sky. 

 

 

[hooky_lowdown]

1 hour ago, Maude said:

The cynic in me says they're left like that as most folks looking to spend that kind of money aren't beginners and will know a good set up to their preference will sort it, so the shop can then sell a set up for £80 or whatever it costs. 

The £80 set up is actual money in the shops till whereas profit on the £2k bass might not be much more. 

Someone buying a £2k bass should know how to set it up themselves, or rich enough to have their own tech. Either way I don't see the buyer paying a shop which doesn't look at details, to set up the bass for them.

[odysseus]

5 hours ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Was the Dingwall new? I don’t think there are that many UK dealers and the ones I know of are reliable.

Sheldon would have a stinky poo fit if he heard one of his dealers was this bad.

I got a new Dingwall 5 string from Bass Direct just over a year ago - set up was perfect for me and the thing was perfectly in tune straight out of the box. Mucho respect to BD!

[Bassfinger]

The OPs observations are all well and good, but set up is subjective.  The type of strings used, the amount of permissible fret buzz, and action are all individual choices.  If the shop had set them all up to suit  me then the OP would likely find it indifferent at best, and vice versa.

First thing I do on any new bass, and guitar prior to that, is bin the strings and fit my own favoured variety.  That immediately throws any existing set up straight out the window, so what the big deal?

It's like bicycles of any real value come with cheap saddles and pedals, or even no pedals at all, because they know the first thing the rider will do is fit their own favoured pedal system and seat.  If customers, be they cyclists or bassists, all performed with exactly the same ability, had exactly the same tastes, and exactly the same hands and bodies then a universal set up prior to sale would be super smashing lovely.  Unfortunately they don't, so it's pointless.  

Edited January 6, 2020 by Bassfinger

[Chris2112]

One of the issues with shops dealing in any sort of volume of instruments is that their margins probably don't account for fine tuning or even basic setup in some cases. Added to that, they often don't have staff who know how to make a decent job of a setup. Sometimes you get a decent setup out of the box and the bass will play nicely, sometimes it's crap. 

[binky_bass]

29 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

The OPs observations are all well and good, but set up is subjective.  The type of strings used, the amount of permissible fret buzz, and action are all individual choices.  If the shop had set them all up to suit  me then the OP would likely find it indifferent at best, and vice versa.

First thing I do on any new bass, and guitar prior to that, is bin the strings and fit my own favoured variety.  That immediately throws any existing set up straight out the window, so what the big deal?

It's like bicycles of any real value come with cheap saddles and pedals, or even no pedals at all, because they know the first thing the rider will do is fit their own favoured pedal system and seat.  If customers, be they cyclists or bassists, all performed with exactly the same ability, had exactly the same tastes, and exactly the same hands and bodies then a universal set up prior to sale would be super smashing lovely.  Unfortunately they don't, so it's pointless.  

Hugely disagree.

The basses in question have potential, but they were so poorly 'set up' (or whatever better use of words there are) that the bass didn't shine to anywhere near close to its potential and just played like a dog.

I will not buy a bass brand new where I don't know (to at least some degree) what it is capable of. A: its foolish as you're essentially buying blind and B: to me it shows the shop has no real care over their trade.

Yes, of course set ups are subjective, but playing a bowed neck, a rattley fretboard, with dying batteries, crackly pots, biting strings, bad intonation etc etc are not subjective. 

The comparison to a car is quite apt, would you buy a car with four flat tyres, iffy breaks and a cracked windscreen? Doubtful.

Set ups are subjective, but there is a degree of 'set up' that will show case a bass's best side to 90% of punters, having £1500+ basses hanging from a wall that play like a piece of Far Eastern tripe does no one any favours.

[binky_bass]

1 hour ago, Chris2112 said:

One of the issues with shops dealing in any sort of volume of instruments is that their margins probably don't account for fine tuning or even basic setup in some cases. Added to that, they often don't have staff who know how to make a decent job of a setup. Sometimes you get a decent setup out of the box and the bass will play nicely, sometimes it's crap. 

My job requires a huge learning curve, even if you have the core skills my employer would look for, you wouldn't be able to use our bespoke systems or have any idea whatsoever on how to achieve what is required, it takes learning and training. Something that you would gain on the job.

This shop had a good number of employees rattling around the shop, they are employed by a music shop, they should have at least a basic understanding of how to set up and demonstrate an instrument in order to make a sale. If they don't, then they should absolutely be trained to do so. If the shop hired them and just left them to it then that's their massive downfall, they should train their staff to do the set ups and put them to work doing them. 

If you were an employer would you rather your staff mill around the store like lost children, or have them do something that actively helps the business and assists with pushing sales? 

Edited January 6, 2020 by binky_bass

[dave_bass5]

6 hours ago, Maude said:

I don't know, I've never paid for a set up. It's one of the simplist things in the world to do so I'd never pay someone, hence why I said, "or whatever it costs". 

I always do mine, after all, no one knows what works for me other than me, but I'd expect to walk out of shop paying ticket price with a bass that is set up as close as possible to my liking. Ive not brought a bass from a shop for a few years, but those i have (and none have been expensive basses) ive always been offered a free set up before leaving.