Disappointing experiance with new basses.

[FinnDave]

20 minutes ago, Maude said:

After a little Sunday drive over dartmoor last summer if found myself in Ashburton, the music shop was closed but a guitar in the window caught my eye with it's quirky design. The scratchplate, along with pickups, electrics and controls was screwed to a section of bodywood which popped out and was interchangeable to achieve a strat, tele, Les Paul etc configuration. Hard to explain but it looked really cool and I thought it was a great idea. 

The guys there are musicians and enthusiasts first and foremost - every time we go to Devon, a trip to Ashburton is essential. My wife had a favourite coffee shop there, and I am always warmly welcomed at WM.

That guitar sounds like just the sort of thing that would appeal to them. They have a well equipped workshop and very experienced staff there as well. 

I have no connection with the shop other than being a very happy customer.

[Stub Mandrel]

I've played quite a few different basses in a few different shops over the last year. From the great to the horrific.

One memorable experience was trying a £1,400 Warwick which had a horribly feel, poor fret ends and you could feel the unevenness of the neck laminations, then tried a £220 Squier Jag with a spotless neck, smooth as silk with beautifully rolled edges. This wasn't  a case of setup, but rather poor QC by a high-end manufacturer.

That said, I think the setup and fret finish probably make the biggest difference to your perceptions of an instrument, along with whether you can get the sound you want. It's pretty obvious from a cursory examination whether a shop is setup one or a 'don't touch them' one, and shops that fail to do at least a rudimentary check of the action give me an impression of probably not having any regard for their customers. I suspect some shops are terrified of dropping the action so far that they get fret buzz, others may assume if they set up the cheap guitars they will show up the better more expensive ones.

In my experience, the best shops for setting up guitar are actually the ones that have guitar techs in house; rather than looking to make an extra buck I think they realise well set up guitars can lead to impulse purchases!

I tried out lots of acoustic basses, most had awful setups, the worst were always the Tanglewoods. I think shops are more reluctant to adjust plain saddles because it's irreversible. The irony is that Tanglewoods are shipped with shimmed saddles, but I reckon most need 1-2mm shaving off the saddle.

One shop I mentioned this in took it off me and brought it back ten minutes later set up much better, I think it was just truss rod. I ended up buying a s/h Tanglewood for £70, the action was awful but after rather more than ten minutes on the nut and saddle as well as Truss rod, it was also set up nicely (how did some poor soul cope with it being like that for 13 years?)

In another shop, I commented on the sound I wanted and they swapped the amp I was using for one more like my own, which made a big difference.

A s/h Squier Jazz bass was quite nice in the shop, but after a few weeks the action had become far too high; this one needed a washer on the truss rod which had run out adjustment. A reminder that guitars set up nicely might not stay that way if they are on the rack for months.

My Flea Jazz felt good, but after a week I did drop the action a touch and tweak the truss rod, but that was about personal preference.

 

[MikanHannille]

I pretty much gave up trying basses on big music shops. No matter how I wanted to try a specific bass. I  find that the setup is just rubbish. Well of course as some people have already pointed out that it's different for specialised shops like Bass Direct and The Bass Gallery.  

I've seen this US Geddy Lee which for the longest time I'm so curious about but when I tried it in a bigger shop in Birmingham, I was just disappointed. I know it's only a setup but it kills your keen-ess towards the instrument.

[binky_bass]

To be honest, all of this pretty much confirms what I've been doing since starting to play bass some time in the Edwardian era. 

Buy pre-owned.

Well, with two exceptions... having custom instruments made. One by Bee Basses and one by ACG. Both spectacular instruments.

Buying pre-owned might be inadvertently assisting in the death of the high street, but there are some incredible deals to be had out there and I'd sooner buy from one of you fine folk knowing its come from a good home and going to a good home with me!

[Hellzero]

So you are going to buy me another bass these days ? 😁

[prowla]

1 hour ago, binky_bass said:

To be honest, all of this pretty much confirms what I've been doing since starting to play bass some time in the Edwardian era. 

Buy pre-owned.

Well, with two exceptions... having custom instruments made. One by Bee Basses and one by ACG. Both spectacular instruments.

Buying pre-owned might be inadvertently assisting in the death of the high street, but there are some incredible deals to be had out there and I'd sooner buy from one of you fine folk knowing its come from a good home and going to a good home with me!

I've bought a few new guitars/basses in my time

1. my first bass, a Columbus Jazz (which I replaced with a Rickenbacker),
2. some time later an Aria Pro SB700 (nice bass but big),
3. a Hohner Jack, black with a red strap, which matched our band's outfits for the middle set,
4. a Washburn Status headless (which I replaced with a real Status Graphite).

Otherwise everything else has been used.

Dunno about death of the high street, as buying from someone presumably frees up funds for them to buy another...

[dave_bass5]

Although  I'm more than happy to do my own setups, i would be more worried about hidden issues if a bass really couldnt be played. High or low action i can fix, but if i was looking to try a bass in a shop and it was impossible to play (strings on the frets, neck warped badly) I'd pass. 

[Dan Dare]

This thread does illustrate the benefit of buying from a specialist. That will usually (if not always) mean a smaller shop and you will almost certainly pay more for the privilege. However, there are benefits to doing so. The larger shops depend on volume for their turnover. They buy in larger quantities at lower cost, enabling them to charge less. However, their tighter margins mean they spend less on set-up and detail and will not be able to offer such a personal service. This applies especially to the predominantly online retailers. If you don't mind taking a chance that you will have to either do set-up and finish yourself or pay someone else to do it, you may save some money by buying from them.  If, on the other hand, you value service and want your purchase to be a pleasant experience and to get an instrument that is right first time that you can just play and enjoy, you will be better off supporting that specialist who tries harder. Given that a good instrument is generally not a frequent or cheap purchase, I know which option I prefer.

[BlueMoon]

I was staying for a business trip one time in the mid-west U.S.A. in a small sleepy town. Main street was dying, but they did have an active music store. I was in there having a noodle on some 2nd hand basses. The staff were very helpful and I finally settled on a nice Ric 4003. While doing the prep work for sale, the knowledgeable and helpful tech looked the bass over, played it and confidently concluded that the truss rod(s) needed a tweek. I hadn't noticed that the neck was off. You guessed it, he went at it like a gorilla and, ping..........the deal was off.

I was glad that he did it at his behest rather than me asking for it to be done.

i guess that helpful staff can be sometimes just that bit too helpful.

 

[uk_lefty]

I've bought two new basses recently. A Sire arrived from Thomann with the most perfect setup, no complaints at all, ready to play out of the box. I bought my MM Stingray in Wunjo's, it was nicely set up in the shop, so no complaints. They did me a full set up for free and I get that for life from them if I can haul my bass back and forth to London! However if the action was ridiculous or intonation off I wouldn't gave hesitated to ask them have a look because it was a serious investment and I want to properly test drive it. If I were just tinkering with no intent to buy I wouldn't bother but if you're serious about buying an instrument I expect the shop to help and the customer to be able to wait a short while. 

[Monkey Steve]

3 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

I've bought two new basses recently. A Sire arrived from Thomann with the most perfect setup, no complaints at all, ready to play out of the box. I bought my MM Stingray in Wunjo's, it was nicely set up in the shop, so no complaints. They did me a full set up for free and I get that for life from them if I can haul my bass back and forth to London! However if the action was ridiculous or intonation off I wouldn't gave hesitated to ask them have a look because it was a serious investment and I want to properly test drive it. If I were just tinkering with no intent to buy I wouldn't bother but if you're serious about buying an instrument I expect the shop to help and the customer to be able to wait a short while. 

yes, excellent point.  If you're serious about buying a bass, there's no harm in discussing what you don't like about the instrument and seeing if the shop can sort it out before you part with your cash (or leave) - they want your money after all

[FinnDave]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

yes, excellent point.  If you're serious about buying a bass, there's no harm in discussing what you don't like about the instrument and seeing if the shop can sort it out before you part with your cash (or leave) - they want your money after all

A shop in Lahti, Finland did just that for me when the Jazz bass I was interested in had a rather high action. They sorted it while my wife and I had lunch nearby, when we returned the bass was perfect, so I bought it. 

[Monkey Steve]

A bit off topic, but an ex-guitarist of mine (I won't call him a friend...because I can't stand him) would take a set of screwdrivers and hex keys with him whenever he went to buy a guitar, so that he could dismantle it and make sure that it was as described.

He once left the salesman in a vintage guitar shop in Denmark Street with a '70's Strat in several pieces when he removed the neck to check that it was as "all original" as claimed and could see that it had been refinished and the date on the neck didn't match with the date on the body.  Told me that he'd normally politely point it out, reassemble the guitar and decide whether to ask for a discount, but on this occasion he'd had half an hour of being told that it was definitely all original, they knew what they were talking about because they were the experts, so he just gave him a look of disgusted contempt and walked out.

[thodrik]

2 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

A bit off topic, but an ex-guitarist of mine (I won't call him a friend...because I can't stand him) would take a set of screwdrivers and hex keys with him whenever he went to buy a guitar, so that he could dismantle it and make sure that it was as described.

He once left the salesman in a vintage guitar shop in Denmark Street with a '70's Strat in several pieces when he removed the neck to check that it was as "all original" as claimed and could see that it had been refinished and the date on the neck didn't match with the date on the body.  Told me that he'd normally politely point it out, reassemble the guitar and decide whether to ask for a discount, but on this occasion he'd had half an hour of being told that it was definitely all original, they knew what they were talking about because they were the experts, so he just gave him a look of disgusted contempt and walked out.

Hmm, the thing is that a lot of late 70s Fenders could be made parts from various years, so body and neck dates didn't always match even on the 'original' models. Late seventies Fenders were (or are?) notorious for this practice.

[Monkey Steve]

20 minutes ago, thodrik said:

Hmm, the thing is that a lot of late 70s Fenders could be made parts from various years, so body and neck dates didn't always match even on the 'original' models. Late seventies Fenders were (or are?) notorious for this practice.

Yes.  His explanation wasn't that it was definitely wrong, but that it wasn't definitely right so he wasn't going to pay top dollar.  Plus the refinish, and the attitude of the salesman

There's a good post on the Roman Guitars website from a few years ago basically saying that vintage guitars aren't worth the money, but pointing out that in the days before they were worth stupid prices, Fender necks got swapped all the time, guitars were resprayed, pickups were taken off one vintage guitar and put onto another, tuning heads were upgraded because the standard ones were rubbish, etc, and nobody thought anything of it. And add to that the fact that manufacturers were often quite pragmatic - got a load of ten year old parts you found at the back of a cupboard?  Put them on to this year's model.  So nobody can say for sure whether a vintage guitar is right or not

[DoubleOhStephan]

8 hours ago, BlueMoon said:

You guessed it, he went at it like a gorilla and, ping..........the deal was off.

Can't help think he's inadvertently helped you dodge a bullet there. A truss shouldn't be that fragile should it? Seems it was gonna go at some point. 

[4000]

9 hours ago, BlueMoon said:

I was staying for a business trip one time in the mid-west U.S.A. in a small sleepy town. Main street was dying, but they did have an active music store. I was in there having a noodle on some 2nd hand basses. The staff were very helpful and I finally settled on a nice Ric 4003. While doing the prep work for sale, the knowledgeable and helpful tech looked the bass over, played it and confidently concluded that the truss rod(s) needed a tweek. I hadn't noticed that the neck was off. You guessed it, he went at it like a gorilla and, ping..........the deal was off.

I was glad that he did it at his behest rather than me asking for it to be done.

i guess that helpful staff can be sometimes just that bit too helpful.

 

Similar thing happened to me once many years ago in Musical Exchanges in Brum, though not with regards to a setup. I’d gone in to pick up a Jaydee GA24 I’d reserved and there was an issue with the pickup selector. Instead of taking it to the repair guys the salesman took it upon himself to “fix” it and the electrics went off completely. After spending some considerable time trying to fix it, he gave up and took it to the repair section and was summoned by the manager, who bollocked him. In the meantime Id tried another Jaydee Supernatural and decided to go home with that instead, so it worked out ok for them. Unfortunately the one I bought proved to have an iffy neck that would never settle, but by the time I’d worked that out it was too late to take it back. I wish I’d stuck out for the first one, but I was really annoyed at the time, having had a 3 hour train journey down, and didn’t want to have to go home with nothing. 

[BlueMoon]

15 hours ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

Can't help think he's inadvertently helped you dodge a bullet there. A truss shouldn't be that fragile should it? Seems it was gonna go at some point. 

Yeah...........I'd say those truss rods were either maxed out, corroded or whatever to snap like that. He was embarrassed enough to ask if I wanted a discount and he'd get it fixed ASAP. I was on the plane out the next day..............and, to be honest, my confidence was shot by then.

[basskit_case]

On 07/01/2020 at 06:33, NancyJohnson said:

Pretty much everything I picked up was unplayable, worst of the bunch being one of the Gibson Grabber reissues; horrible front bow on the neck and I swear the action midway was about 3/4" off the board, dead strings, didn't intonate.

Was this one of the Gibson Grabbers from '09 or have they been re-relased again?

[NancyJohnson]

1 hour ago, basskit_case said:

Was this one of the Gibson Grabbers from '09 or have they been re-relased again?

One of the reissues from a few years back.  A G3.

[Chewie]

On 06/01/2020 at 13:12, FDC484950 said:

If you went to try a new car and all of the cars had flat tyres and no petrol would you buy from them? A baseline setup can be done pretty quickly - other than the neck moving what else cannot be done by the factory and be ready to play? It’s not like they’re selling millions of them. Each instrument should have a final inspection including setup to known specs. Assuming the neck hasn’t moved (and a quick tweak of the truss rod can fix that), all new basses should be ready to play out of the box.

+1

I’m so glad I stumbled on this.

I went to a vintage instrument place in Cheltenham and they didn’t even have a bass amp.  The basses all need setting up too.  Some of them were terrible - strings at different heights, alsorts...... I was really surprised.

I should’ve took out a screwdriver and adjusted them myself......!!!

To make it worse, matey just sat there opposite, watching me.   That grips me, I’ll tell you.  Give a bloke 5 minutes peace with an instrument.

I wish they had a few private rooms in Bass Direct actually.  I love it up there but it’s tight.

[chris_b]

On 06/01/2020 at 13:04, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

. . . . . . . . the Gallery charges £35 when you bring your own instrument in for a setup.

I have Martin set up and check the frets on every bass I buy. It doesn't matter how good they are going in, they always come back playing better.

If the guys working in these shops aren't bass players then they won't have a clue what we want from our instruments. Which is another way of saying poor customer service.

[Trueno]

I bought a Squier Jag SS from Keith Dawson Music in Huddersfield (not to be confused with Dawsons... the chain). Cost me £170 and I'm pretty sure he gave it a decent fettling before he put it on display. I gave it a slight tweak when I put my fave strings on, but it was pretty much there. Nice guy too... and he does repairs.

[Davo-London]

I'm a fan of used basses.  I just prefer the feel of them.  If it's a good one it isn't going to change.

Peace

Davo