Open Strings - or not??

[skywalker]

Years ago when I first played bass my teacher told me never never never play on open strings bcoz you can't control the length of the note. (Then in my young days I was playing more rock). Playing again now and learning to play walking lines and sight read, my teacher advocates using open strings to keep the notes phat and long. (He is by trade an upright player in a big band who plays some bass guitar as well). This concept is extremely alien to me and sounds to my ears "Mushy".

What does everyone else think, should I be persevering and learning on to use open strings, playing without open strings, or changiung my teacher??

Steve

[endorka]

[quote name='skywalker' post='41802' date='Aug 6 2007, 08:57 AM']What does everyone else think, should I be persevering and learning on to use open strings, playing without open strings, or changiung my teacher??[/quote]

I use open strings frequently, and don't see a problem with it - the notion that you can't control the length of the note is incorrect, as this can be done by muting the string with the plucking finger (or other fingers) of the right hand. Using open strings is common on double bass since the finger stretch is so large, that below the 12th "fret" you can only finger three notes in sequence without changing left hand position, e.g. F F# and G on the E string. The use of open strings means you can expand that to four notes, e.g. E F F# G, and almost get a full chromatic scale in each position. The result is that you can play just about any walking bassline without shifting the position of the left hand. This also applies to bass guitar whether you use 1-2-4 or 1-2-3-4 fingering on the left hand; in either case your note possibilities is expanded by the addition of open strings.

Open strings are also useful as a bounce point for shifting left hand position, i.e. playing a note on the open string gives you time to make a large shift with the left hand.

In saying that, there are some limitations on open strings, for example it can be difficult to get vibrato with them, and they may sound a little different than fingered notes, so for those reasons I would try to avoid them at the end of a phrase, or in the middle or a very slow phrase. Other than that they are fair game... I sincerely doubt if most people would be aware of the difference between a fingered or open note when you are playing medium to fast lines, especially if you are playing with other musicians.

Jennifer

[url="http://www.jenniferclarkbass.com"]http://www.jenniferclarkbass.com[/url]

Edited August 6, 2007 by endorka

[Lfalex v1.1]

Endorka is dead right.
Plus;

Can play against a drone / pedalled open string for chordal work

The open string gives an accurate pitch as a reference point when playing fretless. Many fretless / upright players use numerous open strings to help them keep in good tune.

[Dood]

[quote name='skywalker' post='41802' date='Aug 6 2007, 08:57 AM']Years ago when I first played bass my teacher told me never never never play on open strings bcoz you can't control the length of the note.[/quote]

Utter tosh. Other than what Jen has added already, I'd mention that your teacher forgot all about right hand muting. Using the fingers or palm muting are just 2 basic examples of controlling any note on an open string or otherwise.

[phagor]

I agree with Endorka and Lfalex.

I try to avoid learning songs using open strings, because I can guarantee that when I get to the gig or rehearsal, the singer will change the key, and I'll be in trouble!

I use lots of open string on the double bass as Endorka describes - it actually makes your walking bass lines more interesting, and it's good to study those lines on the electric bass to get the right feel. But I mostly avoid open strings on the electric to try for a consistent clean sound.

For some songs, however, open strings just sound right... especially the open E string for slapping.

[dudewheresmybass]

an open string is there to be used!!!

[Sibob]

I tend not to learn anything with open strings to much in case someone decides to change the key of a tune. Obviously you can't really avoid it on a 4 string with the low E

I also prefer the sound of fretted notes, I'd have a zero fret on my basses, but I'm playing fender at the mo.
But having said that, if i'm playing a piece and an open note will help me play the line better/smoother/to greater effect, then of course i won't rule them out completly.

The only thing i really use open strings is for peddling off of.

Si

Edited August 6, 2007 by Sibob

[skywalker]

Thanks everybody for your help on this, I will persevere with open strings and see where it takes me.


Steve

[Ghosts Over Japan]

you teacher talks bollocks (y)
listen to some of the old incubus, some of there songs use some well placed open notes
all you have to do is use your left hand to mute them
and the open might be the exact note you need to make that perfect song, because yeah, an open on the E is the same note as fifth fret on the A but even tuned perfect there is still a noticable tone difference
hope i coud help

[Johngh]

[quote name='phagor' post='41923' date='Aug 6 2007, 12:57 PM']I agree with Endorka and Lfalex.

I try to avoid learning songs using open strings, because I can guarantee that when I get to the gig or rehearsal, the singer will change the key, and I'll be in trouble![/quote]

+1 on that, I've had problems just recently with 2 different bands I play in where they have started to play songs in the wrong key. Both times we just carried on playing with the usual "shocked - knowing" glances.
I've not moved away from using open strings with any thought, I just found myself doing it once I moved onto 5 and 6 string basses. Nothing wrong with playing open strings though.

[zero9]

If it wasn't for open strings, some of the 4-string funkateers out there would've been in serious trouble (especially the low E).

[steve66]

[quote name='cai!' post='42423' date='Aug 7 2007, 08:00 AM']..... because yeah, an open on the E is the same note as fifth fret on the A but even tuned perfect there is still a noticable tone difference
hope i coud help[/quote]

I think you got it backwards. The fifth fret on the E string is the A which is the same note as the open A string. An open E is the lowest note available on the 4 string bass. The 7th fret on the A string is the E octave. Pedaling the open E and playing the E on the A string is totally Steve Harris

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Not only do I use the open E & A strings very often, I tend to slip in a low D by flipping the hipshot D-tuner to go lower than the open E on a few songs.

Teachers (not specifically music teachers) sometimes present opinion as fact without backing it up withthing resembling common sense.

Sometimes its nice to play both the open A and the A at the 5th Fret of the E string within a line because of the different feel it lends at different points of the line/riff.

[Tait]

I try not to use open strings because my bass teacher thinks its better not to, but he has never said "don't use open strings". he just says that you should try not to just in case you have to change position, for instance, but its ok to use them if you find whatever you're playing easier that way.

[jakenewmanbass]

I cannot believe that there are ''teachers'' out there advocating 'no use of open strings', Its complete crap, tell James Jamerson, Jimmy Johnson, Ray Brown, and any number of the worlds leading bass players out there that the incredible bass lines and musical genius that they have bestowed upon the world of music are somehow invalidated by some jumped up opinionated git who likes to make rules up in order to cover up his or her apparent lack of credible resource when peddling their unmitigated rubbish to poor unsuspecting apiring young musicians who probably pay for this utter drivel.
I'm hoping you can excuse the level of my vitriol, but I am seriously infuriated by the dissemination of such bilge and equally angry at the idiots who spread such inexactitude, not realising the long term harm it can do.
ASK THE GUY FOR A REFUND. ASK HIM WHICH GROUNDBREAKING GENRE OF BASS PLAYING HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR.
You may use open strings
Rant over

Edited September 12, 2007 by jakesbass

[ped]

Lol.

To be honest I would ignore him too - just play what you like doing and if he doesn't like it, well he can deal with it. All to often I see players having lessons from guitar players who also teach bass and seem to think because they play guitar they can do bass too - because its easier, right?? These kind of teachers always try and produce boring root plodders who play like they would rather be on guitar anyway! Such a bass 'teacher' once told me NOBODY uses chorus on bass. I mean honestly.

[FretBuzz]

I usually try to learn songs with out using open strings, but sometimes they are necessary. Try playing Hysteria without using open strings. I can be done, but why make life difficult.

We do a couple of songs that require the use of open strings and when our singer decided to raise the key, I bought a capo. Works beautifully

[Beneath It All]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='59583' date='Sep 12 2007, 11:15 PM']I cannot believe that there are ''teachers'' out there advocating 'no use of open strings', Its complete crap, tell James Jamerson, Jimmy Johnson, Ray Brown, and any number of the worlds leading bass players out there that the incredible bass lines and musical genius that they have bestowed upon the world of music are somehow invalidated by some jumped up opinionated git who likes to make rules up in order to cover up his or her apparent lack of credible resource when peddling their unmitigated rubbish to poor unsuspecting apiring young musicians who probably pay for this utter drivel.
I'm hoping you can excuse the level of my vitriol, but I am seriously infuriated by the dissemination of such bilge and equally angry at the idiots who spread such inexactitude, not realising the long term harm it can do.
ASK THE GUY FOR A REFUND. ASK HIM WHICH GROUNDBREAKING GENRE OF BASS PLAYING HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR.
You may use open strings
Rant over[/quote]
OUCH!!

[Sean]

I was having thoughts about open strings versus fretted strings earlier last week when our band went to see another Blues Brothers tribute band playing (checking out the competition!). The bass player was playing songs in position and fretted "up the neck" whereas I watched Duck Dunn footage and just copied his positions.

I spent yesterday afternoon sitting in the garden playing lots of the Blues Brothers songs without using open strings and it definitely gives a different feel. It was a worthwhile exercise on my part.but for this type of blues/soul I prefer the open string sound and as far as the "other" tribute band were concerned I'll never know as they had the bass buried in a very muddy mix.

[Krysbass]

This issue came up with me the other day at a rehearsal with the covers band I just joined.

One of the songs we do is Stealer's Wheel's "Stuck in the middle", (not my choice) for which I was fluently and accurately doing my stuff using open strings. Our lead guitarist, who is also a bassist in another band and a professional muso of some experience, proceeded to demonstrate the same line minus any open strings.

I have to say I was impressed and later at home tried to do this, but only to find I was getting myself tied in knots and liable to do my fretting hand some permanent damage!

The way I see it is that if you can play whatever line you need to with the desired phrasing using open strings, then why not? I'm just a "Weekend Warrior" bassist going with the path of least resistance to cope with a song I don't especially like, so the end really justifies the means.

[MacDaddy]

Everyone seems to have missed the most important point about using open strings - the more open strings you use, the more time you have to wave your hand in the air making rock/metal symbols!

[ahpook]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='83139' date='Nov 3 2007, 01:52 PM']Everyone seems to have missed the most important point about using open strings - the more open strings you use, the more time you have to wave your hand in the air making rock/metal symbols! [/quote]



you're not wrong \m/

i don't [i]avoid[/i] playing open strings, but somethimes they're just a bit easier.


and i agree with what's been said about playing fretless...you need them imho to keep things in tune.

[G MAjor]

[quote name='skywalker' post='41802' date='Aug 6 2007, 07:57 AM']Years ago when I first played bass my teacher told me never never never play on open strings bcoz you can't control the length of the note. (Then in my young days I was playing more rock). Playing again now and learning to play walking lines and sight read, my teacher advocates using open strings to keep the notes phat and long. (He is by trade an upright player in a big band who plays some bass guitar as well). This concept is extremely alien to me and sounds to my ears "Mushy".

What does everyone else think, should I be persevering and learning on to use open strings, playing without open strings, or changiung my teacher??

Steve[/quote]
why can you not control the length of the note oh an open string? i hope your teacher has evoled a little since those days'' when i began with bass, i was promted not to play open strings so that any lick/pattern could be transposed around the neck, whith is a good thing but never say never !

[Krysbass]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='83139' date='Nov 3 2007, 02:52 PM']Everyone seems to have missed the most important point about using open strings - the more open strings you use, the more time you have to wave your hand in the air making rock/metal symbols! [/quote]

+1

...and of course being able to take a quick swig from the bottle/glass strategically placed nearby. It's good to be the bass player.

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='Krysbass' post='83948' date='Nov 5 2007, 01:09 PM']+1

...and of course being able to take a quick swig from the bottle/glass strategically placed nearby. It's good to be the bass player.[/quote]

Hell yeah!