Darkglass / NeuralDSP moving into hardware???? UPDATE: The Quad Cortex

[Cuzzie]

6 hours ago, Kev said:

Is it though? Always the default response to anything Doug is involved with, but this is in direct competition with Fractal and Kemper and it’s cheaper than both?

Is it the default response because it’s true?!

On the recent tech21 SH1 pedal thread the same response was shared by a lot of people with it being £399.

£1600 is an eye watering amount of money whatever you say. I am sure @krispn would say that the Fractal and the Kemper are both eye watering amounts of money too! It is entirely likely most people would not use the whole abilities of this unit, so if someone said to you, please give me 1600 bits for a piece of equipment where you will only use 10% of its capabilities, and for that 10% you use you may be able to spend considerably less, you may think twice. It’s not a DG/neural criticism, it’s a practicality of spending money and diverting where you do or don’t have it.

I know one is a floor unit and the other a rack unit but any idea on how the QC compares to the Axe FXIII  in terms of processing power etc? If the Axe FXIII is more powerful/useable/quicker yet, is it not fine to have a slightly higher price?

[fretmeister]

9 hours ago, krispn said:

That price though It’s eye watering!

I thought it was lower than expected.

I thought they were going to pitch it at Fractal levels at £2000+, and they didn't.

They've gone straight for the Kemper Profiler - their regular unit and the new floor unit are £1500 ish and the DG tech is 3 or 4 years newer.

 

It's more than Helix, but Yamaha have huge economies of scale and the product is now mid life too, and Helix doesn't do profiling at all.

 

I think it's well priced.

[EBS_freak]

9 hours ago, bjelkeman said:

But a lot of people have been wondering if the prototypes actually make a sound.

That would be a cruel trick!

[krispn]

9 hours ago, Kev said:

Is it though? Always the default response to anything Doug is involved with, but this is in direct competition with Fractal and Kemper and it’s cheaper than both?

Yeah it is! Same way a Kemper is expensive as is an AxeFX is. DG pedals have always been top end prices. Sure they’re good for many folks and especially the heavier genres and I don’t think I’ve read of many, if any product failures.

The latest, newest gear will always have a cost due to its latest chip set, cutting edge this and that and hopefully it’s sound quality.

The product looks great as does its integration, innovations and its overall Darkglass ‘sheen’ but you’re not seriously gonna say £1500+ isn’t expensive? I’ve used some DG pedals and they’re good, the AO being my preferred pedal in the range. I’ve tried out some Neural software plug ins and again they’re easy to navigate, well designed but not tones I’d really gravitate to in my gigging environment.  
 

And as for price I’m happy to throw a wedge at a piece of gear I really fancy trying out and have done so in the past. Identifying that something is expensive isn’t a criticism as much as it is a statement of fact- DG gear always tends to be spendy!

Edited January 15, 2020 by krispn

[Cuzzie]

19 minutes ago, krispn said:

Yeah it is! Same way a Kemper is expensive as is an AxeFX is. DG pedals have always been top end prices. Sure they’re good for many folks and especially the heavier genres and I don’t think I’ve read of many, if any product failures.

The latest, newest gear will always have a cost due to its latest chip set, cutting edge this and that and hopefully it’s sound quality.

The product looks great as does its integration, innovations and its overall Darkglass ‘sheen’ but you’re not seriously gonna say £1500+ isn’t expensive? I’ve used some DG pedals and they’re good, the AO being my preferred pedal in the range. I’ve tried out some Neural software plug ins and again they’re easy to navigate, well designed but not tones I’d really gravitate to in my gigging environment.  
 

And as for price I’m happy to throw a wedge at a piece of gear I really fancy trying out and have done so in the past. Identifying that something is expensive isn’t a criticism as much as it is a statement of fact- DG gear always tends to be spendy!

Get it second hand in 2021 for £1499 - cheap as chips

[fretmeister]

Quite.

After a year there is always someone claiming they have the insider knowledge on a replacement and there's always someone who sells quick to be ready!

 

If it sounds good today, it will still sound good tomorrow when the new one comes out.

[Kev]

4 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I thought it was lower than expected.

I thought they were going to pitch it at Fractal levels at £2000+, and they didn't.

They've gone straight for the Kemper Profiler - their regular unit and the new floor unit are £1500 ish and the DG tech is 3 or 4 years newer.

 

It's more than Helix, but Yamaha have huge economies of scale and the product is now mid life too, and Helix doesn't do profiling at all.

 

I think it's well priced.

A sensible response 👍🏻

The implication always seems to be that Darkglass and the like are more expensive than they should be, which in reality their growth in the market suggests that is entirely not the case.  In this specific case, the Neural seems to be priced very competitively  in comparison to its main rivals, so again is not expensive for what it is.  Of course, it’s expensive in general, but that’s just the level we are now at for the kind of gear you can get now.  If it’s not affordable , look at Helix.  I am sure there are Zoom users that find the Helix expensive too, and that’s fine.  Different markets.

Rickenbacker is an example of an eye wateringly expensive product 😉

Edited January 15, 2020 by Kev

[fretmeister]

47 minutes ago, Kev said:

A sensible response 👍🏻

The implication always seems to be that Darkglass and the like are more expensive than they should be, which in reality their growth in the market suggests that is entirely not the case.  In this specific case, the Neural seems to be priced very comparatively in comparison to its main rivals, so again is not expensive for what it is.  Of course, it’s expensive in general, but that’s just the level we are now at for the kind of gear you can get now.  If it’s not affordable , look at Helix.  I am sure there are Zoom users that find the Helix expensive too, and that’s fine.  Different markets.

Rickenbacker is an example of an eye wateringly expensive product 😉

Expensive is just expensive.

 

Eye-wateringly expensive is when the product doesn't seem to go with the price... so you are completely correct!  

[EBS_freak]

Given it's specs, if it delivers the goods, I'd say it's pricing is spot on in competing with the rest of the market leaders.

[Cuzzie]

I get the whole expensive is expensive, and the semantics of one persons eye wateringly expensive, is another man’s just expensive (bear in mind it was never said it’s not possibly value for money), but a lot of people I know use gig money for funding gear, as in general the day to day wage is taken up with living.

Is an average gig payment approximately £50 after expenses?

If so you would have to gig every single weekend without a break practically until it’s release to pay for it.

Thats eye watering......

[EBS_freak]

8 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

I get the whole expensive is expensive, and the semantics of one persons eye wateringly expensive, is another man’s just expensive (bear in mind it was never said it’s not possibly value for money), but a lot of people I know use gig money for funding gear, as in general the day to day wage is taken up with living.

Is an average gig payment approximately £50 after expenses?

If so you would have to gig every single weekend without a break practically until it’s release to pay for it.

Thats eye watering......

Function scene money can be around 250 a gig. And gear is a tax deductible expense. So it depends on the stature of your gigging... hobbyist, semi-pro (with secondary income), pro. I suspect these things will become common place on the wedding and corporate scene, just like the Helix and Kemper is.

Edited January 16, 2020 by EBS_freak

[Cuzzie]

5 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Function scene money can be around 250 a gig. And gear is a tax deductible expense. So it depends on the stature of your gigging... hobbyist, semi-pro (with secondary income), pro. I suspect these things will become common place on the wedding and corporate scene, just like the Helix and Kemper is.

Yep I get all that and can’t disagree. It of course depends on your status, and if you declare the gigging money for tax purposes!

Maybe all that £250 can be spent purely on gear and not on living, family holidays, kids clubs, car bills etc. The £50 sum per gig was taken as disposable. 

Yes its tax deductible, but it’s not free money, so whatever your fee it’s still got to be earned before you can then declare it as a legitimate expense you need not be taxed on before we get into running your company at a loss blah blah etc.

It was a viewpoint from your average person, but not trying to besmirch the product.  

[Al Krow]

32 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Function scene money can be around 250 a gig. And gear is a tax deductible expense. So it depends on the stature of your gigging... hobbyist, semi-pro (with secondary income), pro. I suspect these things will become common place on the wedding and corporate scene, just like the Helix and Kemper is.

Same thought processes must come into play whether you are pro, semi-pro, or passionate hobbyist if you're ever considering getting a high-end bass, particularly if there's no 'need' for an addition to your herd?

It's not always just about the money.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Al Krow

[EBS_freak]

21 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Same thought processes must come into play whether you are pro, semi-pro, or passionate hobbyist if you're ever considering getting a high-end bass, particularly if there's no 'need' for an addition to your herd?

It's not always just about the money.

Absolutely. A car is car, right?

[Kev]

44 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

I get the whole expensive is expensive, and the semantics of one persons eye wateringly expensive, is another man’s just expensive (bear in mind it was never said it’s not possibly value for money), but a lot of people I know use gig money for funding gear, as in general the day to day wage is taken up with living.

Is an average gig payment approximately £50 after expenses?

If so you would have to gig every single weekend without a break practically until it’s release to pay for it.

Thats eye watering......

Even that though, it depends on what gear you need.  Add up the cost of a good varied effects pedal laden board, power supply, patch cables, recording interface, headphone amp, cab simulator, tuner e.t.c. and, if you have decent gear, you can't be far off.

On the gig payment front, how many gigs do you need to do to pay for the other tools you use, your basses and your backline?  IEM's?  Lights? PA?

Your comments would suggest being a musician is eye watering in itself...

Edited January 16, 2020 by Kev

[Cuzzie]

39 minutes ago, Kev said:

Even that though, it depends on what gear you need.  Add up the cost of a good varied effects pedal laden board, power supply, patch cables, recording interface, headphone amp, cab simulator, tuner e.t.c. and, if you have decent gear, you can't be far off.

On the gig payment front, how many gigs do you need to do to pay for the other tools you use, your basses and your backline?  IEM's?  Lights? PA?

Your comments would suggest being a musician is eye watering in itself...

First sentence - need and want are 2 interchangeable 4 letter words.

Being a musician (I wouldn’t call myself that btw, I just like playing) can be eye watering if you sit back and look at what money you may have invested amongst GAS, which is part of the reason we are all here!

Crikey, my gear is far far far too good for me.

Is the money spent on backline, PA, lights etc. An initial outlay and float for an all purpose loan you intend to pay back to yourself, or is it something you write off for your hobby/semi-profession/profession/enjoyment?

Kids are an eye watering expense, but the benefits far far far outweigh it all.

Its the Mrs Cuzzie test

”Mrs Cuzzie, I’d like to spend £1.5k on a bit of equipment for my enjoyment. It could potentially replace all my other stuff.”

”That’s nice dear, will you then sell all your other stuff off to pay for it in the 9 month lead time, or in fact ever?”

”Errrrrr.......Unlikely.....”

Bonafide stern look and kick in the nuts - hence an eye watering expense

[Kev]

14 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

First sentence - need and want are 2 interchangeable 4 letter words.

Being a musician (I wouldn’t call myself that btw, I just like playing) can be eye watering if you sit back and look at what money you may have invested amongst GAS, which is part of the reason we are all here!

Crikey, my gear is far far far too good for me.

Is the money spent on backline, PA, lights etc. An initial outlay and float for an all purpose loan you intend to pay back to yourself, or is it something you write off for your hobby/semi-profession/profession/enjoyment?

Kids are an eye watering expense, but the benefits far far far outweigh it all.

Its the Mrs Cuzzie test

”Mrs Cuzzie, I’d like to spend £1.5k on a bit of equipment for my enjoyment. It could potentially replace all my other stuff.”

”That’s nice dear, will you then sell all your other stuff off to pay for it in the 9 month lead time, or in fact ever?”

”Errrrrr.......Unlikely.....”

Bonafide stern look and kick in the nuts - hence an eye watering expense

Valid stuff, but I am just saying it applies to everything in the same sense.  £100 bass would do that same as a £4000 bass from the perspective of 90% of people in the crowd, yet how many of us on here play what we strictly need, not want?

This is no different.  For me, the QC costs less new than my pedalboard added up and adds a LOT more I don't already have as I have made do without (want/need), the difference being buying it all at once.  I could never have afforded that or justified buying all from scratch, but selling all second hand now will still pay off the QC.  Yeah, if you don't actually sell it off then its a big investment for little gain, but otherwise it's just swapping gear, losing a little in finesse and gaining a lot in practical function.  A lot of it is looking at it logically vs emotively.

 

And yes, the quality of my gear ludicrously outweighs my skills as a bassist.  And my own financial position.  But hey ho!

Edited January 16, 2020 by Kev

[Cuzzie]

Don’t think we can argue with each other on any of that!!!

I would  defo love at least a go on it for an extended period, or even own, but know I would not use even a quarter of its capabilities.

I am now trying to be a good boy with balancing ins and outs.

About the only pro active thing I can do is secretly list the actual price of all things so that if I pop off before Mrs Cuzzie, she doesn’t sell it off too cheap and could at least have a decent holiday on the proceeds!

[Kev]

7 minutes ago, Kev said:

And yes, the quality of my gear ludicrously outweighs my skills as a bassist.

 

2 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Don’t think we can argue with each other on any of that!!!

Savage.

😂

[Cuzzie]

The beauty of a selective quote

[Cuzzie]

9 minutes ago, Kev said:

Valid stuff, This is no different.  I already could never have justified buying all from scratch, but if you don't actually sell it off then its a big gain, gear finesse and practical function.  look at it logically, the quality of my ludicrous skills as a bassist. 
 

 hey!

There you go

[krispn]

So in summary we can say the Quad Cortex is an expensive unit, not dissimilar to other high end processors. Taken in the wider scheme it could potentially be replacing multiple items which collectively would have a similar total value. 
 

Plus it’s new and shiny and kids are a financial abyss! 

 

[Cuzzie]

An eye watering financial abyss

[Cuzzie]

And it doesn’t replace unless your significant other catches on

[Kev]

I’ve got a bank statement saying £170 odd, it’s just out of stock so may take a while to arrive ...