Blues ain't that easy..

[niceguyhomer]

My band might be splitting up soon - it's only a matter of time. We play classic soul and proper RnB and during my time with 'em, I've developed quite a busy, funky bass style.

Anyway, there's a bit of a chance I might have an audition for a really good blues band so I thought I'd better start learning some blues and I'm finding it quite hard to play. I haven't been learning stock bass lines - I've just been jamming along to things like EC's Cradle to the Grave trying to get a feel for it.

I used to think it'd be a doddle but it's a totally different feel to soul and I find myself doing too much.

Any tips blues brothers?

[GreeneKing]

Shuffle!

Blues scale?

Turnarounds?

Triplets (no not Grandchildren)?

Any help?



Seriosly Alan I have the definitive collection of instructional media with several Blues 'How to's' if you wanna borrow some.

Edited January 28, 2009 by GreeneKing

[niceguyhomer]

Thanks Pedro - yeh I understand all that and have tuition material and can do scales and the typical blues bass lines etc, but I want to develop a feel for it and be able to improvise on the hoof, which I think is really important for blues and the books don't do that.

[OldGit]

Less is more, Brother.

Eric's a bit, er, "English" some times ..

Try these guys:

Howlin' Wolf
John Lee Hooker (esp The Healer)

Gary Moore (Esp Still Got the Blues)

The Kings:
BB King
Freddie King
Albert King (Flying V and pipe on stage, what a dude!)


Stevie Ray Vaughn

Some of this stuff was played on upright bass which means lots of open strings, a lot lese notes, walking, riffs and space ...

[The Funk]

Simplify.

EDIT: Essential listening - Elmore James, Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf.

Edited January 28, 2009 by The Funk

[Beedster]

A huge +1 for Albert King's music, some great bass lines and great blues feel generally. For years I felt I knew what blues should sound like, but had yet to find the performer or band who encapsulated this sound. Then I bought some Albert King....

[Mr.T]

[quote name='OldGit' post='393496' date='Jan 28 2009, 10:36 AM']Less is more, Brother.[/quote]

+1..... That's blues bass in a nutshell.

I 'cut my teeth' playing bass in blues bands around South London, and was never ever asked to play more notes.
Sometimes it felt to me that some of my lines were too simple, but I remember a time when a more 'Jazz-funk' oriented player (Yes, I am talking a long time ago) depped for me while I was on holiday.
I was concerned that I would be rumbled for not being a particularly great player... (I was new to bass at the time).
Anyway...
On my return, the band said "Thank God you are back, *** played too much and it sounded a mess" (Or something similar).

So my advice would be:
Go for a nice deep tone.
Keep it simple and avoid the temptation to play more then is needed.

[RayFW]

For a more 'modern' blues setting, Dave Bronze playing with Robin Trower is a great indication of what is needed.

Can't get on Youtube as at work but there are some great clips on there of Dave playing in Robin's band.

[EBS_freak]

Try and get more familiar with the not so 12 bar blues... it's those that are going to catch you out.

Need Your Love So Bad and Story Monday are the two obvious ones to have under your belt but then maybe look at Be-Bop blues turn around... off the top of my head, check out Kidney Stew on YouTube with a student from MI.

Obviously check out people pushing away from cliche blues like Robben Ford and the like....

[Eight]

Put Willie Dixon "The Chess Box" compilation on loop and sit there for at least 24 hours.

Then move on to Otis Spann - piano based so hopefully you can stop thinking about bass and soak up the blues.

[Rich]

Robert Cray has some cracking stuff in his back catalogue too. 'The Forecast Calls For Pain' is a belter.

[skankdelvar]

One approach is stick to simple repetitive, even hypnotic patterns, with more interesting supporting passes when shifting between chords and on turnarounds. That's the thing about blues - unless the band's billing itself as being [i]different[/i], there'll probably be an expectation that 'stock phrases' will form part of your repertoire.

Also, keep it low down. For a lot of songs, I don't go past the 5th fret. If the key forces it (say, D), I might start the root high then run the pattern back up to it from underneath, rather than the classic root [i]up[/i] to root octave. Def worth checking out SRV's bass player, Tommy Shannon. Some nice loping grooves, partic Pride and Joy.

Good point from EBS-freak about non-trad-stuff. Def worth checking out structure variations such as the 8 bar (keys to the highway) also alternative beats e.g yer 2 basic Bo Diddleys, Two-steps etc.

The other key thing is "helping" the drummer to (1) swing it a bit and (2) lay back off the beat in the classic slow trip shuffle. Lots of Brit drummers hit everything spang on, which makes things a bit metronomic and also have a tendency to overplay e.g over-complicated fills through turnarounds.

Although it's a bit of a generalisation, Brit Blues Bands (even the best) can be a bit stiff at times...check out the Fab T-Birds, Jimmie Vaughan solo stuff, even Johnny Winter, for a more "rubbery" approach.

IMHO, the best blues rtm sections are the ones where you don't even notice they're there, but the song would die without them.

Edited January 28, 2009 by skankdelvar

[niceguyhomer]

All good stuff lads - ta muchly and keep it comin'

[spinynorman]

For bass, Tommy Shannon with Johnny Winter (Second Coming) and with Stevie Ray Vaughan.

For blues generally, Elmore James, Buddy Guy, all those Kings, Gary Moore ("Blues for Greeny" and the live CD of "Best of the Blues").

+1 on Fleetwood Mac's "Need Your Love So Bad", nice understated bass and great timing. For fun, Leslie West's "Stormy Monday" on "Guitarded".

And check this out

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqAuuIDU2sw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqAuuIDU2sw[/url]


The hard bit is not playing the same bassline for every song

Edited January 28, 2009 by spinynorman

[acidbass]

Rory Gallagher is one of my personal favourites, but there are loads of people from the 50s and 60s that influenced him that you should check out, most have already been listed but I'd highly recommend -

BB King
Howlin' Wolf
John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers
Robert Johnson
Buddy Guy
Chuck Berry
Little Richard
T-Bone Walker
Elmore James
Leadbelly

The thing I love about playing blues is that you can take a back seat in the band, yet have such an impact on the overall sound. It's probably the most understated instrument in a blues band. If you're used to playing rather busily (is that a word?), then you'll probably take a little time to adjust to the different playing style, but it's really not a hard genre to play once you're into it! I certainly enjoy playing blues more than some genres, always puts food on the table too

It's amazing how many different ways the simple I-IV-V thing can be played too. I'd recommend just messing around with it until you hear new patterns emerging, it's always great fun this way and good for ear training too!

[hubrad]

All of the above! It's not so much about technique as feel and groove. Sounds like you can groove already, so you just have to soak yourself in the best blues artists' vibes and off you go.
I came from folk-rock and folk-punk, and answered an ad years ago while pro in a touring band. I was thinking 'oh, yes, just turn up on the odd occasion, walk the standard pattern all night and a few extra quid in the coffers'. My education started there, and I actually started to appreciate blues rather than thinking of it as an easy middle ground as so many do.
Mind you, if you can play funky stuff too, you can add further textures which make you as a bass player and hence the bands you play with just that bit different!
Have fun!

[david_l_perry]

Alan, check out the Robben ford stuff, its great for playing along to, the bass player is great, plenty of scope to do your own thing and just jam along with this gear.

Its anything but ' keep it simple' bass playing, as the guy does some amazing chord stuff, but its not in yer face stuff.... its pucker good bass playing....

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixOm4WTupfw&feature=related"]Robben ford - You Cut Me to the Bone[/url]

And this is another great track:- [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgJudyJfXQA"]Robben ford - Indianola[/url]

Dave

Edited January 28, 2009 by david_l_perry

[The Funk]

We're also quite lucky to have one of the highest bassist:blues jam ratios in this country. Get down to a few blues jams and try to stay up there for as long as possible. I pop into a blues jam every now and then just for fun. I do love playing the blues.

[artisan]

"chill out,feel the song & keep it flowing along,but above all DON'T BLOODY SLAP IT."

this was the advice i got given by my brother when we formed our blues band 15 years ago as he was big into blues but i'd not really listened to it before.
i listerned to a lot of Tommy Shannon's SRV stuff,Jimi Hendrix (especially when Billy Cox was playing bass) & of course Jack Bruce's Cream stuff. also listen to anything by a band called "THE HOAX" their bass player,Simon Davey,playes some really nice lines.

[OldGit]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='393589' date='Jan 28 2009, 12:47 PM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqAuuIDU2sw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqAuuIDU2sw[/url][/quote]

Ah yes Subtle but effective. It's important to lay back on the beat on that one. It tends to get kicked along a bit fast ...

Speaking of space .. on one of the original BBK recorded versions the [i]snare[/i] drops out on the 2 beat in the first verse - now [i]that[/i] is effective use of space.
Here
[url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6tHI6FPrQdg"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6tHI6FPrQdg[/url]

[chris_b]

Don't overplay, underplaying is better, after all that's what Duck Dunn, John McVie and Willie Dixon did.
Blues is so much easier with a good drummer.
There will be lots of fret-w@nking to get through.
Audiences love busy blues bass players but they are generally not liked by the other musicians.

Learn the groove/feel of a shuffle. You can then adapt it to any other shuffle feel or tempo.
Don't be afraid to play one note bass lines in a shuffle. Do it right and it really works.

See what I mean about a good drummer!!

Learn the groove /feel of a slow blues. Guitarists love them and you just have to reach the end still awake.


A funky blues depends on the guitar riff, but keep it solid and simple.


Walking bass lines can be jazzy


simple



or, just follow a riff


Blues can be rough and ready


or smart and cleaver



Most blues bands in Britain these days are blues rock, so listen to Gary More, Stevie Ray Vaughn. Then check out The Fabulous Thunderbirds, Freddie King, Albert King, Albert Collins, Little Milton etc.

Just remember this is blues, and bum notes are always forgiven if you get the groove right.

[Dr.Dave]

Practise scales and technique regularly

Don't compete with the guitar player

Never , ever show off ................


are three things totally alien to me!!!!!!

I just go for it , Al. Where there's a hole - I'll fill it. The basics can be very easy and I stick to those til we've done a new tune 2 or 3 times then I just let it develop. If I cock something I do it in the next verse too and everybody thinks it was deliberate. Eventually Martin and I click with the drum bass fills and the song works. If it doesn't sound like anyone expected we care not a jot.
Do not be afraid to roll your own , it's very easy for the bass player in a blues band to be the forgotten man at the back. That doesn't suit me and from what I know of your guitar playing history and entertainment/enjoyment factor it won't suit you either. I think this could put a smile back on your face which will put smiles on your audiences faces too. That's the job. That's how you do it in the venues you'll likely be playing.

I'm not making a gag of this and in no way trashing the sensible comments of others - I just think you could really shine at this if you don't play it too safe and treat your mistakes as a learning process with a wry smile at yourself.

[acidbass]

[quote name='chris_b' post='393682' date='Jan 28 2009, 02:13 PM']Audiences love busy blues bass players but they are generally not liked by the other musicians.[/quote]

+1 on that point. It's got a lot to do with the ego of the band leader sometimes (in that they don't want any spotlight taken away from them), but the bassists who get the most work in a blues environment are always the ones who don't play overly busy.

Of course it's all about taste. If the song needs more energy, you know how to add it by playing a few more notes here and there to drive it. I always find it's easier to get busier when required than to get less busy, if you get my drift.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Have a listen to Andy Pile's playing on Gary Moore's Blues Alive album. That's about as much as you'll [or everyone else will] want to be doing in a blues band. Easy life! LOL

If you read notation I can do you the two/three architypal blues bass lines. It's just sitting on the roots, lots of chromatic fills and the obvious fills with thirds & octaves.


Rich.

[Born 2B Mild]

Here's a point not covered so far Al. You and I have both added a fifth string this year, and your new direction is relevant to my observation...

I've played blues, off & on, since 1974 when I learned [i]Red House Blues [/i]by Jimi Hendrix (and it still sends me). In 2008 I started using 5-string bass for the first time in ernest, and this coincided with me joining/forming a secondary band that does some blues.

What I have found is that the low B is [i]so cool for blues [/i]...really suits it when wanting go down and moody (especially with flats). But there weren't fivers around in the decades when blues went electric ...so which way do you go?

Maybe 5-string Jazz Bass? Oh dear ...GAS alert!