Blues ain't that easy..

[casapete]

[quote name='OldGit' post='393496' date='Jan 28 2009, 10:36 AM']Less is more, Brother.

Eric's a bit, er, "English" some times ..

Try these guys:

Howlin' Wolf
John Lee Hooker (esp The Healer)

Gary Moore (Esp Still Got the Blues)

The Kings:
BB King
Freddie King
Albert King (Flying V and pipe on stage, what a dude!)


Stevie Ray Vaughn

Some of this stuff was played on upright bass which means lots of open strings, a lot lese notes, walking, riffs and space ...[/quote]


+1 to the above, BUT!
Whilst maybe agreeing with Eric's 'Englishness', what is it with Gary Moore?
Am guessing that for the people who missed out on the Kings and the other great bluesmen, then Gary Moore was the most easily available
'blues' player for many guitarists. Trouble for me is he can't stop himself from widdling all over the place, with masses of distortion too.
And did anybody see the interview with him in last months Guitarist mag, where he pretty much disses Joe Bonamassa?
Very unprofessional in my view.
Give me Eric anytime.

[The Burpster]

1. try not to get too caught up on 'who's blues is best' listen to the original greats but remember alot of that real early stuff was done on uprights, so dont get too hooked up in trying to get 'that sound'..... (unless you have an EUB )

2. Dont be busy unless the piece demands it... its better to leave gaps as long as the timing stays put. Try to avoid fancy fills when the g'tarist is doing his iddly widdly bits (its wasted) and remember you can alter the mood by altering your volume ( I love my vol. pedal ).

3.Feel the music as a whole and try not to be too technical, it sounds forced.....

MHO FWIW

[teej]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='393480' date='Jan 28 2009, 10:22 AM']My band might be splitting up soon - it's only a matter of time. We play classic soul and proper RnB and during my time with 'em, I've developed quite a busy, funky bass style.

Anyway, there's a bit of a chance I might have an audition for a really good blues band so I thought I'd better start learning some blues and I'm finding it quite hard to play. I haven't been learning stock bass lines - I've just been jamming along to things like EC's Cradle to the Grave trying to get a feel for it.

I used to think it'd be a doddle but it's a totally different feel to soul and I find myself doing too much.

Any tips blues brothers?[/quote]

Feel.

That's what it's all about. You can't play the blues unless you got the blues. Sounds like a cliche but it's the truth.

The blues is a beautiful free art form, with improvisation at its heart. It has a simple structure precisely to facilitate that freedom of expression.

My advice would be to not listen to anything after the '50s for a while, head back to the '30s and dig deep and wide into the blues canon: delta, piedmont, new orleans, chicago, memphis; and don't get hung up on guitarists - check out the stomps and boogies on piano. Also the jump jive and rhythm'n'blues bands (Louis Jordan, Big Joe Turner). The bass player to look out for is Ernest 'Big' Crawford, played with Muddy and Big Bill Broonzy, and lots of other people (that's him on Muddy's 'Can't Be Satisfied' (circa '46?), recommended listening for anyone who thinks blues bass is straightforward or simple). Don't bother learning any of this, just enjoy it, and let it inform your improv.

Of course all this effort might not help if the band is just playing Jimi Hendrix and ZZ Top, but at least you'll know where it came from.

[OldGit]

"Whilst maybe agreeing with Eric's 'Englishness', what is it with Gary Moore?"

Well he's Irish and lived throughout the Troubles and was disfigured in a face bottling.
I reckon that's probably enough to give you the blues ..

However I don't believe you need to have the blues to play the blues ...

Gary Moore may play a lot of notes but the excitement and energy is fantastic (IMHO of course). For me he's in the same blues subsection as Stevie Ray Vaughn.
I'd say a contemporary blues set should have a few tunes from each.

Remember to add light and shade too.. Bass and drums can add dynamics that can really make a difference to the tunes.

[teej]

[quote name='OldGit' post='394188' date='Jan 28 2009, 11:20 PM']"Whilst maybe agreeing with Eric's 'Englishness', what is it with Gary Moore?"

Well he's Irish and lived throughout the Troubles and was disfigured in a face bottling.
I reckon that's probably enough to give you the blues ..

However I don't believe you need to have the blues to play the blues ...[/quote]

Well, I've heard Willie Dixon very eloquently disagree with you there, as well as a whole host of genuine blues artists. That doesn't mean that you have to be suicidal or a manic depressive. It means you have to have the blues in your soul, in your blood. Maybe you get chills listening to Robert Johnson, thrills listening to the Wolf or Hound Dog Taylor, whatever, but it's not just an interesting musical exercise. If you don't feel that way about blues, don't play it: play whatever does give you the chills and thrills. There's a world of difference between playing blues and playing AT blues.

[quote name='OldGit' post='394188' date='Jan 28 2009, 11:20 PM']Gary Moore may play a lot of notes but the excitement and energy is fantastic (IMHO of course). For me he's in the same blues subsection as Stevie Ray Vaughn.
I'd say a contemporary blues set should have a few tunes from each.[/quote]

Here I'd completely disagree. Why any contemporary blues act would want to cover either SRV or GM beats me. Surely that's what every blinkered pub-rock blues band does; wouldn't you want to mark yourself out as different? It also suggests that contemporary blues sounds like these guys: what about Little George Sueref, Big Joe Louis, Errol Linton, Ian Siegal, The Spikedrivers, Red Jackson (*hem hem* )? That kind of blues rock would be completely out of place in sets by those artists, especially since the latter four if anything sound MORE contemporary than the blues-rockers, not less.

SRV and GM may seem a good 'in' to the blues for those coming from rock, but remember the original poster was coming in from soul/r'n'b. I'd say he's over half way there. It should swing. Listening to a good range of traditional blues will open up a whole world of grooves that are largely missing from mainstream post '60s brit blues.

[quote name='OldGit' post='394188' date='Jan 28 2009, 11:20 PM']Remember to add light and shade too.. Bass and drums can add dynamics that can really make a difference to the tunes.[/quote]

+1 for that . Hopefully the drummer is sensitive enough to work with you on this, and the rest of the band can follow, lots of eye contact is key here.

[OldGit]

[quote name='teej' post='394375' date='Jan 29 2009, 10:22 AM']+1 for that . Hopefully the drummer is sensitive enough to work with you on this, and the rest of the band can follow, lots of eye contact is key here.[/quote]


Cheers Teej
Some eye openers there.

Oh and I'd add some Hendrix too Maybe I just don't have the blues in my soul, but then the last time my people were enslaved was during the Roman occupation ...

[OldGit]

It's a broad church and I think there's room for the SRV/GM/Jimi end of things as much as the Robert Johnson, Big Momma Thornton, Muddy Waters stuff.

I guess too it will depend on the venue and audiences.

Oh, and BB King thinks Midnight Hour is a blues song .... or he says he does here

[ezbass]

[quote name='david_l_perry' post='393614' date='Jan 28 2009, 01:02 PM']Alan, check out the Robben ford stuff, its great for playing along to, the bass player is great, plenty of scope to do your own thing and just jam along with this gear.[/quote]

The brilliant Roscoe Beck, check out his [url="http://www.roscoebeck.com"]website[/url]. He has a great instuctional vidoe (DVD?) which has something for all levels of players. One of my favourite players ever and a real nice guy.

Tommy Shannon with SRV, Johnny Winter and Storyville is another great source of inspiration.

Randy MacDonald with Tommy Castro is worth a listen too for how to mix funk with the blues.

Playing blues doesn't mean you don't get to be busy, but what you play must be appropriate, same as any genre.

Edited January 29, 2009 by ezbass

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='OldGit' post='394475' date='Jan 29 2009, 12:35 PM']I guess too it will depend on the venue and audiences.[/quote]

+1 - that's the key. It's down to the audience's familiarity with the material.

No question that there are (different / better / whatever) artists than GM / SRV / EC - but it's down to what the paying punters want - and lots of 'em want to hear re-treads or covers of covers of covers of the aforementioned covering other artists. So, tough...

Somewhere else, like a 'proper' blues club / venue, you'd maybe get canned off for playing that stuff because the punters are more ..er...scholarly? It's happened to me.

OTOH, in pubs or general music venues, if you take it out of the mainstream many punters just glaze over.

Walter Trout (has he been mentioned yet?) once said he was too 'rock' for the 'blues police' and too 'blues' for the rock audience, and there's definitely a fault line in this marketplace. Bonamassa and Sherman Robertson have expressed similar views. Clearly, to appeal to a crossover audience, you have to walk a fine line.

As regards "having the blues", IMO that's synonomous with the idea of playing with passion and commitment. If it's about more esoteric issues of background, ethnicity and authenticity, then we're in danger of getting into a sort of "Can Blue Men Play The Whites?" debate; at which point I'm running a hot bath and cutting my wrists...

Or we could start a whole new thread - maybe take it over to the 'technique' section - pretty quiet down there, I hear

But back to the OP - good point about the soul background. Definitely helps to start from there rather than, say, odd-tempo'd Swedish Metal.

Frankly, for a man of your calibre, it'll be a piece of p*ss and you'll love it.

Edited January 29, 2009 by skankdelvar

[teej]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='394529' date='Jan 29 2009, 01:32 PM']+1 - that's the key. It's down to the audience's familiarity with the material.[/quote]

Maybe. I think there's a broad church in the audience as well. I play regularly to probably the most mainstream audience going - a random selection of the general public in busy shopping centres (yeah, I'm a busker). And my contemporary take on blues from the '30s-'50s is popular enough in that context for me to make a living out of it. Many of them won't know any of the songs we play. I don't think the audience is as narrow minded as the promoters in the English blues scene.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='394529' date='Jan 29 2009, 01:32 PM']As regards "having the blues", IMO that's synonomous with the idea of playing with passion and commitment. If it's about more esoteric issues of background, ethnicity and authenticity, then we're in danger of getting into a sort of "Can Blue Men Play The Whites?" debate; at which point I'm running a hot bath and cutting my wrists...[/quote]

+1 Absolutely. Why would you even want play music that you didn't feel passionate about? Money I guess...

[The Funk]

Right, I'll give you the advice I gave my band members on playing the blues. They all come from different musical backgrounds which have elements of blues in there (hard rock/metal, gospel, soul, r&b, jazz), so they have the right vocabulary and play all the right notes. With your musical background and level of experience you will also have all the right notes.

So when everyone says it's about feel, they're right. It's about dynamics and intensity. That's what I love about 12-bar blues.

The place I'd use to either build things up or calm things down is the V-IV-I turnaround at the end of the sequence. And you can build it up or calm it down not just by playing louder and softer (which is important - a good blues band will have 3 different settings, a great blues band will have 5+), but also by changing things up rhythmically. Get your drummer to mimic the things you do (or mimic the things he does) by going from quarter notes to eight notes, triplets, sextuplets etc. to build it up or down the other way for the reverse effect. (When it gets really quiet, sometimes I'll go to whole notes or drop out altogether). And as a rhythm section you'll follow the soloist (be it the vocalist, guitarist, keyboard player) to see which way he wants it to go.

That's what it's all about. Dynamics and intensity and developing a feel for which way to go and when.

Oh, don't forget about breaks and stops! Not enough blues bands use them.

[Beedster]

All of the above + a Telecaster Bass mate. Nothing more blue and bassy

[niceguyhomer]

[quote name='Beedster' post='394800' date='Jan 29 2009, 06:42 PM']All of the above + a Telecaster Bass mate. Nothing more blue and bassy [/quote]

Spectors no good then?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='394830' date='Jan 29 2009, 07:18 PM']Spectors no good then? [/quote]

As long as you don't mind assisting the Blues Police with their enquiries.

Edited January 29, 2009 by skankdelvar

[iamthewalrus]

[quote name='ezbass' post='394511' date='Jan 29 2009, 01:13 PM']The brilliant Roscoe Beck, check out his [url="http://www.roscoebeck.com"]website[/url]. He has a great instuctional vidoe (DVD?) which has something for all levels of players. One of my favourite players ever and a real nice guy.

Tommy Shannon with SRV, Johnny Winter and Storyville is another great source of inspiration.

Randy MacDonald with Tommy Castro is worth a listen too for how to mix funk with the blues.

Playing blues doesn't mean you don't get to be busy, but what you play must be appropriate, same as any genre.[/quote]

Roscoe Beck is one of my all time favourite Blues bassists - I loved all the Blue Line albums, it's a real shame Robben Ford never continued that band (probably the best Blues trio since the original version of SRV's Double Trouble).

Have really enjoyed reading this thread as there's been loads of really good advice, & given me some food for thought about my own playing where the Blues is concerned (not that I'm playing in a band at the moment....).

Cheers,
iamthewalrus

[teej]

[quote name='BeLow' post='394962' date='Jan 29 2009, 09:24 PM']First think about being the rhythm engine - your job is to be rock solid with the drummer absolutely seamless practice alongside some tracks and try to think like a drummer (do drummers think?)[/quote]

Oh yes - I often describe our drummer, Mr Chicken-King Schultz, as 'the thinking man's drummer'. He won a BBC Radio 3 writing competition (first 3 pages of a novel), coming first out of 10 000!

[niceguyhomer]

[quote name='BeLow' post='394962' date='Jan 29 2009, 09:24 PM']I am no expert, although I love blues, but I am probably a bit too busy too.

Couple of thoughts which may sound a bit whacky

First think about being the rhythm engine - your job is to be rock solid with the drummer absolutely seamless practice alongside some tracks and try to think like a drummer (do drummers think?) or think how you can make your bass sound more like the drum kit? Experiment with that plectrum as well.

Second try some slow blues (Need Your Love So Bad - was the one that helped me) and for this concentrate on perfecting the tone and timing for each note.


Good luck with the band thing by the way.[/quote]


Thanks Jon

[spinynorman]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='394905' date='Jan 29 2009, 08:30 PM']QUOTE (niceguyhomer @ Jan 29 2009, 07:18 PM) *
Spectors no good then?

As long as you don't mind assisting the Blues Police with their enquiries.[/quote]

I've played blues on my Rebop 5 and didn't get my collar felt. Although, having removed the pre-amp, wired it passive and strung it with La Bella flats, it's the Spector Police I'm more worried about.

[Dr.Dave]

Where is it written that a particular type of music has to have a particular type of bass sound requiring a particular instrument.

This is 2009. Music develops as time goes by , so do instruments and sounds. If you play the instrument you like you've more chance of creating good music.

Besides - don't most modern basses have tone controls??

[tauzero]

I play the blues on a fretless Warwick Thumb, mostly above the 5th fret. But then I'm awkward. When playing duo I play melodic bass lines with fills to compensate for the absence of a lead instrument. Playing in a trio+ with the guys I normally do this with, we tend to weave what we're doing around each other.

[chris_b]

Hi Alan, are there any blues jams in your area? I would go along and try out what you have learned. If you screw up it won't matter, just make a few adjustments and keep going back until you're happy with what you are playing. I know a couple of good guitarists who are coming along to our jams to practise their singing and they are getting better every time.

[niceguyhomer]

[quote name='chris_b' post='395465' date='Jan 30 2009, 03:15 PM']Hi Alan, are there any blues jams in your area? I would go along and try out what you have learned. If you screw up it won't matter, just make a few adjustments and keep going back until you're happy with what you are playing. I know a couple of good guitarists who are coming along to our jams to practise their singing and they are getting better every time.[/quote]

Good idea Chris - I'll have to make some enquiries sir

Have to say - this is all good stuff this fellas. Thanks.

[wayne58]

Fabulous Thunderbirds, 3 Kings, Ronnie Earl & The Broadcasters, Albert Collins, Duke Robillard.
I would learn as much of their material as possible and you will have a stock of tasty blues bass lines.
Learn Stormy Monday, Need your love so bad etc.

Slow blues bass lines, swings and shuffles are in abundance on any albums by the above.

Johnny B Gayden (Albert Collins )Tommy Shannon (Stevie Ray Vaughan), are the two blues bass players that rule the roost IMHO.

Edited January 30, 2009 by wayne58

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' post='395391' date='Jan 30 2009, 01:46 PM']Where is it written that a particular type of music has to have a particular type of bass sound requiring a particular instrument.[/quote]

I reproduce the following from Barry Chinstroker's seminal publication "Guide to British Blues Bass Playing" (Hi! Tone Publishing, 1995):

[i]"....New-boy bluesers soon discover that a 'bells and whistles' 5-string bass is a major solecism (or 'faux-pas' as our Jazzbo friends might say).

In 1978, well-known Chicago bassist Eddie 'Po'Boy' Sandwich turned up for a gig toting one such instrument. Bandleader, Howling Lemon Balsam shot him dead on the spot and the audience ripped his bleeding corpse to shreds before dining on his vital organs. It should be noted that British 'blues buffs' show far less restraint.

....The ideal bass tone should resemble the sound of a large, empty wooden box being struck by a good-sized possum. "[/i]

Edited January 31, 2009 by skankdelvar

[markytbass]

I love playing the blues, I am currently in a blues trio looking to start gigging in a month or so. There is a great book/CD collection by Chris Rea called Blue Guitars that goes through different eras and styles of blues, worth a listen.