EssentialTension Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I have never been a big prog fan but my favourite bassist in that genre was always Ray Shulman of Gentle Giant. I'd call him funkier than the average and no trebly Ric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StickyDBRmf Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I was a real big fan of John Wetton...until King Crimson was no more. Oh, and coming from a jazz background, when I picked up the upright, Charles Mingus. Talk about gritty. And BTW, I became jaded w/ the jazz world (seemingly stuck in the Real Book) when I was introduced to the album "Starless and Bible Black". THAT was progressive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 32 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said: I was a real big fan of John Wetton...until King Crimson was no more. Oh, and coming from a jazz background, when I picked up the upright, Charles Mingus. Talk about gritty. And BTW, I became jaded w/ the jazz world (seemingly stuck in the Real Book) when I was introduced to the album "Starless and Bible Black". THAT was progressive. Big fan of John Wetton here too but more so his work with UK and Asia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 minute ago, dmccombe7 said: Big fan of John Wetton here too but more so his work with UK and Asia I saw JW at The Fairfield Halls with Quango (basically Asia without Downes and Howe), absolute quality gig. JW was also with Wishbone Ash for a while too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, ezbass said: I saw JW at The Fairfield Halls with Quango (basically Asia without Downes and Howe), absolute quality gig. JW was also with Wishbone Ash for a while too. Yes he was also with Uriah Heep for a bit. Fantastic player and great singer. Shame his personal issues got the better of him for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I've been really enjoying Bob Drake's solo stuff lately. He plays a Ric and will happily talk about his Squire influence, but I'd say it doesn't really come out as derivative. https://bdstudio.bandcamp.com/album/arx-pilosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 It's quite easy to find non-squirealike bassists in prog if you just listen to whatever bands Mike Portnoy has (or is) drummed for. Currently spinning Flying colors - Dave la rue. Very musical and sounds nothing like squire. then there's Dream Theater - Myung is in a class of his own regards tone. The Neil Morse band has Randy George on bass - again, not a squire clone. Then you have his heavier bands like Sons of Apollo with Billy Sheehan and so on.... Unsurprisingly there's no sign of any rickenbackers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 4 hours ago, Jus Lukin said: That is probably a thread all its own, but it is worth considering whether Prog Rock is a permanent state of change, as it were, or has become a genre in itself, with certain factors which make it 'Prog' rather than any other kind of rock music, or kind of music full stop. If constant progression is the only goal, then the music should be unrecognisable compared to that of the prog heyday of the 70's and, on first thought, the logical conclusion is a transition to very avant garde music. Yes to Steve Reich, to that guy who set a load of vibrating dildos on timpani, to The Gerogerigegege, to white noise? How many times could one listen to a record before it has ceased to be a progression and becomes stagnation? It's all rather problematic, and it makes more sense to view Prog, like any of these names coined by journalists rather than musicians, as a particular way of making rock music which was at the time, a progression of the style and was, for a time, progressing. Prog Rock, I would posit, is very much an idiom struck in the 70's, and if I'm in the mood for some prog I don't look for the most out-there thing I can find. I want to hear the sound of Yes, or Pink Floyd, or Gentle Giant, etc. There is nothing wrong with loving those old records, or wanting to make music in a similar vein- in fact it's only the 'progressive' title which suggests it could be out of the spirit of the thing. It wouldn't have sounded so cool, but had it been called 'Classical Rock, or 'Compositorial Rock' or somesuch, then the development of a style in itself wouldn't feel like the movement letting itself down somehow. Now you would be talking "Classic Prog" It was Prog in the late 60s to early 80s but you cant blame the old bands for the stagnation of the genre now. Because some music journalist called it Progressive has rather lumbered the music with a title that demands it constantly evolve. Is that possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) - Edited March 4, 2022 by Jus Lukin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 5 hours ago, Jus Lukin said: It wouldn't have sounded so cool, but had it been called 'Classical Rock, or 'Compositorial Rock' or somesuch, then the development of a style in itself wouldn't feel like the movement letting itself down somehow. Good point. In my own circles, we decided some decades ago that "progressive rock" was rock that changed the face of music, and "prog" was that certain style we love or hate - - whether it was progressive or not. Worked for me. BTW, another vote for @EssentialTension's Ray Shulman of Gentle Giant. Monster player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 5 hours ago, Bilbo said: As well as being before a Squire fan, my favourite bass sound is Martin Brierley on Greenslade 'Time and Tide' which is a Ric. The gritty bass referred to throughout this thread is the problem. I think the nuanced differences some of you reference goes over my head as, I would argue, the idea that other fusion players not sounding like Jaco does people who don't listen to a lot of those kinds of music. Beggs is a gritty growler, Jon Poole of Lifesigns. What set this off is the recording I did recently with a Prog band and the suggestion made during those sessions that the toppy growl was great because it 'cuts through' (the assumption being that cutting through was important. I always considered Geddy Lee to be a Squire disciple, even to this day. I suspected that this was the problem, that they're all "gritty growl" and therefore much the same. And I do feel much the same about the millions of "back pickup burp" guys, but not really for those reasons; I have a good enough ear to separate them, and I have listened to a lot of jazz and fusion (which is what I grew up with, before I ever discovered Prog), but that approach, bass-wise, has just never really grabbed me, with a few exceptions. I have never, for instance, listened to Jaco and thought "what a great sound!"; in fact I remember listening to "Jaco" (1st solo album) for the first time and thinking his sound was just a blurry mess (yes, I know!). To give some context, I also remember hearing Jack Bruce on the OGWT many years ago and thinking "that bass sounds like a fart!". Ironically I rather like that sound now. I think, for me at least, how a band or instrument or player sounds, in terms of the actual noise being made, rather than just the notes being played, is extremely important to me. If I don't like the sound someone is generating I find it very difficult to listen to them, and even more difficult to enjoy them. Getting back to the original point, I think because most (although by no means all) of my favourite players come under the gritty, trebly heading, its easy for me to see the differences, as it will be for most who have the same leanings. Geddy Lee is absolutely influenced by Chris, and openly admits it. But to me they have very different sounds, just as Chris, who was openly influenced by Entwistle, sounds nothing like Entwistle at any stage of his career. To me, they sound at least as different as Marcus and Stanley; again, whilst Marcus is obviously influenced by Stanley, to me his sound is very, very different. But everyone hears things differently, and I'll admit to being somewhat anal about these things. And of course its all about context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Bassman Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Pete Trewavas lays down some fab bass for Marillion, Transatlantic and Kino. Always a great tone and feel...currently playing a Thumb Bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Steven Wilson played bass on most of To The Bone and used a Ric (at least that’s what he is using in the video of the making of), no homages to the CS tone there IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Urban Bassman said: Pete Trewavas lays down some fab bass for Marillion, Transatlantic and Kino. Always a great tone and feel...currently playing a Thumb Bass. Early JD Thumb isn’t it? Actually, I think we’re all missing the point. Given that Chris said he went out and bought a a Ric, Marshalls and Rotos because that’s what Entwistle was using at the time and he liked his sound, it’s obviously all Entwistle’s fault.😉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikNik Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 On 14/01/2020 at 18:37, fleabag said: I saw Jack Casady and Jorma Kaukonen back in the 70's when i was embryonic Band was Hot Tuna - heady days indeed The Flying Vee bass days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 3 hours ago, BassTractor said: BTW, another vote for @EssentialTension's Ray Shulman of Gentle Giant. Monster player. And he also doubled on violin and trumpet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 minute ago, EssentialTension said: And he also doubled on violin and trumpet. Aye. Somebody (not me) counted that the band used 30 different instruments on stage. Ray also sang difficult parts in polyphonic and poly-rhythmic segments, IMS whilst playing bass. Mind-boggling. Monster musician, whilst not being Chris Squire. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Urban Bassman said: Pete Trewavas lays down some fab bass for Marillion, Transatlantic and Kino. Always a great tone and feel...currently playing a Thumb Bass. Unfortunately I can never hear past Ian Mosley's skittish shed building. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Can't remember the original question, but get some Richard Sinclair in as well. Incidentally, many of these prog bassists - eg Squire, Wetton, Sinclair, others = all have a chorister/church-based musical beginning. There's the origins of your contrapuntal multi-part harmony thingy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 I recall someone saying that Prog is the only popular music that does not originate in dance. Which is why a lot of us gravitate to it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 3 hours ago, NikNik said: The Flying Vee bass days? I was too off me face to remember the bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectoremg Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 On 14/01/2020 at 16:28, Bilbo said: My passion for Jazz is taking a knock lately for reasons that are to do with the dearth of meaningful playing opportunities where I live and the disconnect between the amount of time you need to spend keeping your chops together and the amount of work you get. Anyway, I have been revisiting an old friend in the form of Prog Rock and started looking at what's new out there and I am enjoying checking out stuff I have missed over recent years. Whilst there are a lot of interesting things out there to take stock of, one of the things that I am finding a little tedious is the over-reliance on Chris Squire-esque bass playing whether it is the ownership of a Rickenbacker 4001 or just the purloining of Squire's rattly, crunchy sound. One of the attractions of Prog originally was the diversity. It seems like a lot of the New Prog is arguably derivative but, whereas no-one steals from Steve Howe, Alex Lifeson, Peter Banks, Steve Hackett or Bill Bruford, Alan White, Phil Collins etc, every other bass player wants to be Chris Squire. Is it me or am I just seeing ghosts? No-one steals from Steve Hackett... have you ever listened to Marillion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectoremg Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I saw this band on YouTube the other day. Pensioner on guitar who was the spit of Steve Howe and four people I didn't recognise. They were even calling themselves Yes! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, spectoremg said: I saw this band on YouTube the other day. Pensioner on guitar who was the spit of Steve Howe and four people I didn't recognise. They were even calling themselves Yes! They're utterly dreadful. They really need to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelDeVille Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Alan Parsons is coming through town next month, are there any new prog rock bands around? Imma go see him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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