Tinman Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Ok, so I have a brass nut fitted to my Shuker and I'm interested to find out your opinions on what the tonal differences would be if I fitted a standard bone one. Ta Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bass Doc Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 [quote name='Tinman' date='Jan 31 2009, 05:28 PM' post='396269'] Ok, so I have a brass nut fitted to my Shuker and I'm interested to find out your opinions on what the tonal differences would be if I fitted a standard bone one No noticable difference as far as I know - in the 70's when people like Di Marzio and Mighty Mite were pushing replacement parts in brass they claimed such things would increase sustain. I tried them for a while and realised the bridges in particular seemed to 'deaden' the sound compared to steel - it is after all a fairly soft metal. When you consider the job a nut does, once you fret ahead of it it's out of play as part of the sound path and therefore of no effect. If we concede that increased sustain occours when playing an open string, who needs it? I guess most players would prefer the note to die just as quickly as any other because sustain (much loved by gu****ists) can translate to 'drone' on a bass and I find most guys concentrate on good dampening technique to achieve a clean punchy sound Sorry to all the fans of my famed SOH to make a serious observation without including a joke - oh alright then - Roy Rogers - doesn't everyone? ( it also works with Samanatha Fox) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Thanks for that Doc, I appreciate the advice. The main reason for asking is because I'm experimenting with my sound. I'm wondering whether to swap my pickups out (emg P and DC) for a pair of EMG 35J's as I'm not enormously happy with the tone at the mo. I swapped the DC into the neck position yesterday but haven't had the chance to try it out properly yet. BTW has anyone any idea why Jon would have fitted 5 and 6 string pickups into a 4 string bass? What are fitted are a 40P and 40 DC. Cheers Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bass Doc Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 EMGs have a particular character that people either like or dislike. In your case changing from P & DC models to J types will have the effect of thinning the sound a bit but I doubt the actual tone will alter much - they will still sound like EMGs. Maybe you can describe the tone you have in mind and hopefully members will chip in with advice. I don't think there's any special reason for fitting pickups that are wider than standard string spacing - it may be just 'being on the safe side' - I have fitted 6-string pickups to a 5 knowing that it had particularly wide spacing. There should certainly be no 'tonal' difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 The tone may be different but I doubt my ears would discern it. As soon as you fret a string they certainly wouldn't! I think there's a fair deal of hype around nuts to be honest. Both mine work fine. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I think part of the point of brass for nuts is that aside from being hard, it is quite slippery, which is good for nuts. Hmmm, not sure how I could have worded that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Fair play on the point about the nut. It never occured to me that it's out of the equation when you fret a string, DOH! I guess I'm just getting itchy about my overall sound. (This site doesn't help one bit ) I think a bit more experimentation with the onboard preamp, amp settings etc, is what is needed. Maybe the cabs I'm using are not right for me (dear God!! where will it end?) Cheers Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 [quote]dear God!! where will it end?[/quote] ACG with an ACG01 pre? Then I'm biased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo200sx Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 [size=3]The main thing people forget is that the tone (unless playing an open string) comes off the contact point either the fret or finger if fretless. I built a few guitars up and always replaced the chrome saddles with either brass or once even titanium ones. This made a massive difference to the tone but the nut didn't much. I asume the same would apply to bass. The best way to change your tone would be experiment with different strings, this makes on hell of a difference.[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) This is the instrument in question. I'm starting to think that the pickup routs are in the wrong positions for jazz type pickups anyway (I could be wrong though ). I've put the DC in the neck position now so I'll see how that sounds before I make anymore decisions. Cheers Pete Edited February 1, 2009 by Tinman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Pete - if your Shuker's anything like mine bare this in mind. Because the bridge is made up of individual saddle pieces screwed to the wood rather than the conventional bridge type where the saddles rest on a plate , Jon has to find a different way to 'earth' all 4 strings. A wire taken to the g saddle only earths the g string. To get round this he puts a brass shim in with a bone nut , then the earth path runs up the g string to the nut and back down the other 3 strings. In your case , if you have a brass nut fitted , it's doing the same job. So - if you replace it with a bone nut alone you've broken that earth path. Just something worth your consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 [quote name='Dr.Dave' post='396952' date='Feb 1 2009, 04:01 PM']Pete - if your Shuker's anything like mine bare this in mind. Because the bridge is made up of individual saddle pieces screwed to the wood rather than the conventional bridge type where the saddles rest on a plate , Jon has to find a different way to 'earth' all 4 strings. A wire taken to the g saddle only earths the g string. To get round this he puts a brass shim in with a bone nut , then the earth path runs up the g string to the nut and back down the other 3 strings. In your case , if you have a brass nut fitted , it's doing the same job. So - if you replace it with a bone nut alone you've broken that earth path. Just something worth your consideration.[/quote] Thanks Dave. I'm convinced that it wouldn't make any tonal differences, from what the other guys have said and certainly, what you have just said there has convinced me not to change it. I'm actually starting to think that I need to change my cabs. Aluminium cones aren't exactly the the most forgiving or mellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bass Doc Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 You're dead right about the position if the pickups Mr. T. A Jazz bass sounds like a Jazz bass mainly because of the placement of the pickups - if you note the distance of the bridge pickup from the bridge itself on the real thing it's not as close as some people think, certainly not as close as on your bass. I seem to recall Leo Fender having a test rig consisting of a neck bolted on to an open frame with only a bridge terminating it and using this to slide a pickup whilst plugged in to judge the best position (to his ears) for optimum tone - something to do with being beneath a particularly lively harmonic I reckon. It looks as though you are after a warmer tone which might only be achieved by playing around with pickups, circuits and amp settings etc.. Unless of course you come to the conclusion that you should have a Ja.....oh dear I really shouldn't go there when you've got such a beautiful instrument Good luck in the never-ending search which is the curse of most of us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Pete , I take your point about alu coned drivers but I think a bit of eq experimentation costs nothing and will probably chill your tone out to near where you want it. I go through periods of finding my Shuker too bright , too middly , whatever. I just pick up another bass for a bit and appreciate the different sounds rather than seeing some of them as unsuitable if you catch my drift. Someone suggested string changing - there's another good call , easy and cheap - massive difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 [quote name='The Bass Doc' post='396974' date='Feb 1 2009, 04:25 PM']..... Unless of course you come to the conclusion that you should have a Ja.....oh dear I really shouldn't go there when you've got such a beautiful instrument Good luck in the never-ending search which is the curse of most of us![/quote] Haha, don't even get me started on that subject. Can you believe I actually went and sold one? I've regretted it ever since. Thank you for the compliment on my bass, it is a beauty and I love it but, as you succinctly put, we are cursed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Dr.Dave' post='396994' date='Feb 1 2009, 04:45 PM']Pete , I take your point about alu coned drivers but I think a bit of eq experimentation costs nothing and will probably chill your tone out to near where you want it. I go through periods of finding my Shuker too bright , too middly , whatever. I just pick up another bass for a bit and appreciate the different sounds rather than seeing some of them as unsuitable if you catch my drift. Someone suggested string changing - there's another good call , easy and cheap - massive difference[/quote] Thanks again Dave. You're absolutely right mate. I'm just being fidgity and I know it. It strikes us all at one time or another <edit> Some string suggestions would be appreciated. I'm using Bass Boomers at the minute, they're about 15 months old. Edited February 1, 2009 by Tinman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Tinman' post='396997' date='Feb 1 2009, 04:52 PM']<edit> Some string suggestions would be appreciated. I'm using Bass Boomers at the minute, they're about 15 months old.[/quote] Just nicely broken in, then You could try a set of groundwounds - not as dark as flats but getting there. I've got Elixirs on my Shuker , which is 3 band - generally I have the mid flat and boost the bass a fair bit and the treble a bit less. Mine's more of a posh Stingray though. In the depths of the control cavity there's another pot which allows you to adjust/set the frequencies that the top side mid pot affects. I haven't messed with mine - because I can't be bothered to be honest - but if your EQ's similar it might be worth a twiddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Ah yes....the onboard preamp. Therein lies black magic and mystery :wacko: I have to admit that I haven't fiddled with the mid control either, I really ought to give it a go. Any idea of the frequency range? I'll have a look at some groundwounds but I think you're right about the boomers, I reckon they're just starting to come into they're own. BTW I had elixirs fitted to both my Ibbys....hated them, the coating flaked off in no time flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Tinman' post='398125' date='Feb 2 2009, 05:42 PM']I have to admit that I haven't fiddled with the mid control either, I really ought to give it a go. Any idea of the frequency range? BTW I had elixirs fitted to both my Ibbys....hated them, the coating flaked off in no time flat.[/quote] Not a clue - Jon started explaining it to me but I got bored and went and played with his dog. I heard that Elixirs last a player about 3 times as long as his or her normal brand strings last - which in my case means I won't have to change them til I'm 148. Must say they've been bang on to press , no flaky coatings or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 [quote name='Dr.Dave' post='398243' date='Feb 2 2009, 07:54 PM']I heard that Elixirs last a player about 3 times as long as his or her normal brand strings last - which in my case means I won't have to change them til I'm 148. Must say they've been bang on to press , no flaky coatings or anything.[/quote] Yeah, it's really odd. They flaked at both the neck end and over the pickups - annoyed the hell out of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 [quote name='BeLow' post='399370' date='Feb 3 2009, 08:17 PM']The search for tone! I rate Jon's corian nut (I think that's what it's called) at first I wanted him to use a one piece brass design but I like the one he supplied, it works. I fiddled with the mid control - a total absence of instructions did not help but I got there in the end and I think it pays dividends to explore it. I seem to rotate through 2 or 3 different basses which seems to stop me wanting to go and buy new ones. I reckon Dr D has given some good advice on this. BTW has Mrs T quizzed you on where this is going yet?[/quote] I'd not heard of corian until now. I'm happy to stick with the brass one really. I'll have a go at the mid control, when I get the chance. It seems a bit remiss of me to have ignored it all this time, when others rave about it. Now - 2 or 3 basses. Hmmm there's an idea Oh and I have no idea where this is going yet, let alone the missus (Well, I do have an idea but funding may be an issue - damn Sri Lankan holidays ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Skipsea's nice ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I have a theory that nuts should be made out of a softer and more self-damped material than frets otherwise open notes will be brighter and have longer sustain than fretted notes (due the the finger behind the fretted note adding a degree of damping). Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinman Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='400018' date='Feb 4 2009, 02:44 PM']I have a theory that nuts should be made out of a softer and more self-damped material than frets otherwise open notes will be brighter and have longer sustain than fretted notes (due the the finger behind the fretted note adding a degree of damping). Alex[/quote] That's an interesting point indeed Alex. I can see the reason behind your thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bass Doc Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Hows about this - the prefect solution would be a zero fret - hence the open string note should sound the same as any other - simple eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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