AeroTech cabs from GR. Wow

[Chienmortbb]

On 27/01/2020 at 14:05, Al Krow said:

Oh I dunno, I could name a few high end Italian cars that would leave just about every British made car in the shade for performance and style 😁

Having just looked at a Mark Bass Nano, Italian Style has taken on a whole new meaning. I have nicknamed it the NoNo.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Chienmortbb

[BCH]

On 16/05/2020 at 10:03, BCH said:

Great...do have a look at the light weight cab I got 10 days ago for comparison British hand made. It larger because I wanted to get the full volume recommended by Celestian 

 

At Last....the Scott Dixon web site is live...have a look at the unique Guitar cases & bass cabs

https://www.scottdixoninc.com/

[dave_bass5]

On 08/04/2021 at 12:49, krispn said:

As has been said often at the price points these go for it’d be replacing great cab for great cab. I’m not sure what the berg would offer over and above the tecamp. What was your take on the berg on a gig compared to the F112 or the BF?
 

I've gigged all of those. The main thing i took from those experiences was i too prefer 2x12 and the CN212 blew the others away. In fact my longest lasting cab was my old Schroeder 1212L. I should add I went directly from the F112 to the CN212, with the same head, bass and band, that to me that's a good way to test them. then again, i went from a TCE RS212 to the F112. Go figure lol. The BB2 was a few years ago, but it was was a bit 'meh'. I'd take the F112 over the BB2, although the F112 is a bit heavy, so maybe not.

[CookPassBabtridge]

On 15/04/2021 at 16:44, BCH said:

At Last....the Scott Dixon web site is live...have a look at the unique Guitar cases & bass cabs

https://www.scottdixoninc.com/

Nice! They look great. Although (and I may have not looked properly) I can’t see anything regarding weight on the product pages - which is a bit surprising.

[dave_bass5]

Forgot to say, i had the chance to play through this 1x12 combo a couple of weekends ago. I didn’t get the change to lift so no idea how heavy it is, but it sounded very clear and strong in my mates living room. It was next to two small Ashdown rigs, one of them a tube head, and although ti sounded less authoritative than the other two, it took the Ampeg preamp pedal much better. Its a very cool combo, especially with the lights on the top.

Edited to say small, not smaller Ashdown rigs. 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by dave_bass5

[dave_bass5]

For anyone thats interested. 

 

[BCH]

11 hours ago, CookPassBabtridge said:

Nice! They look great. Although (and I may have not looked properly) I can’t see anything regarding weight on the product pages - which is a bit surprising.

Have chased John...schoolboy omission!!!!! 

[gobasserk]

Did somebody try a GR cab with an "oldschool" analod head? I like the idea of lightweight but concerning bass heads nothing compares to analog for me. So the best light cabs fired with a lightweigtht head will always sound strange for me.  And I think bass head with 10kg more than a class d amp...that's a thing I can handle. 
Did anybody use GR cabs in a more rock style context? All this yt vids of guys fiddling arround in a living room loudness... you can't tell anything from that vids... So ...real experience? 😄  I love the idea of GR...Can it be real?

[Al Krow]

Posted by Ed Friedand on TB a couple of days back:

"Just put up my demo of the AT208... And last week I did three acoustic Mavericks shows with the AT210 with a ONE 800 head, and I loved it! Totally gave me the presence I needed onstage, and we always mic the cab for most of the FOH sound. I played upright, abg, and the Cat bass, and they all sounded perfect. I was going to use an AT112, but the vertical array and slightly larger box were the right choice.

My Guitar tech picked it up the first time bracing for it to weigh about 40 pounds - he almost hit himself in the face with it!"

 

Interesting comments by Ed at the start of the video about the greater consistency of graphite vs wood (and indirectly relevant to @Hellzero and @Killed_by_Death's in depth discussion on Tonewoods and physics!)

I've been corresponding with the GRBass CEO recently and he's mentioned that they're about to upgrade the units with strengthened corners and anti-scratch plastic / rubber bars on the AT models, which should address some of the residual concerns around fragile construction. 

[dave_bass5]

Have you used your cab yet Bas? I can’t see any comments or the usual photos you put up when you get new gear. 

How does it compare the BB2 in your eyes/ears?

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Posted by Ed Friedand on TB a couple of days back:

"Just put up my demo of the AT208... And last week I did three acoustic Mavericks shows with the AT210 with a ONE 800 head, and I loved it! Totally gave me the presence I needed onstage, and we always mic the cab for most of the FOH sound. I played upright, abg, and the Cat bass, and they all sounded perfect. I was going to use an AT112, but the vertical array and slightly larger box were the right choice.

My Guitar tech picked it up the first time bracing for it to weigh about 40 pounds - he almost hit himself in the face with it!"

 

Interesting comments by Ed at the start of the video about the greater consistency of graphite vs wood (and indirectly relevant to @Hellzero and @Killed_by_Death's in depth discussion on Tonewoods and physics!)

I've been corresponding with the GRBass CEO recently and he's mentioned that they're about to upgrade the units with strengthened corners and anti-scratch plastic / rubber bars on the AT models, which should address some of the residual concerns around fragile construction. 

Weren’t the concerns more about stability to be knocked being so lightweight, especially the slim line as opposed to construction (aside from the port position debate), hence why you plumped for the non slimline?

The 8” did wobble a bit when Ed was turning the dials......

[Osiris]

I'm intrigued by these carbon cabs especially in terms of durability. I work with a couple of guys who race carbon bicycle frames which have a habit of transforming into a pile of Lego if you hit a pot hole so it'd be interesting to see how one of these cabs would fare if it was accidentally dropped or fell over in the back of the van, for example. 

[gobasserk]

My concerns are...will the cabs stand knocks like a wooden cab..? Or will they crack ?  And again ..2x8" or 2x10"... are these cabs only interesting for acoustic or Jazz gigs? 

[Killed_by_Death]

 

Graphite is stiff, but SOFT.

They'd be better off using ABS plastic.

 

[Cuzzie]

2 minutes ago, Killed_by_Death said:

 

Graphite is stiff, but SOFT.

They'd be better off using ABS plastic.

 

Better off using my Abs-plenty of cushioning and attached to a big low end

[Osiris]

4 minutes ago, Killed_by_Death said:

 

Graphite is stiff, but SOFT.

And brittle too according to the experiences of my cycling mates.  

[Killed_by_Death]

 

I used to surf in Orange County, SouthEast of L.A. & right about that time graphite surfboards became a thing, they were easier to dent than figberglass boards.

 

 

[yorks5stringer]

44 minutes ago, Killed_by_Death said:

 

I used to surf in Orange County, SouthEast of L.A. & right about that time graphite surfboards became a thing, they were easier to dent than figberglass boards.

 

 

Won't the salt water affect the speaker cone....?

[Killed_by_Death]

 

I remember the rich kids with the graphite boards were extra careful about dings, apparently it was more difficult & costly to repair, in direct comparison to fibgerglass.

I would repair my own with a fiberglass agent made for Corvette body repairs, LOL!

 

[dave_bass5]

I get the impression these cabs are basically Amazon boxes covered with stick on CF mouse matts 😂.

It seems to me some manufacturers are pushing the boundaries of certain aspects of cab design, but at the cost of other aspects. Finding the acceptable balance seems to be a sport these days. 

 

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Have you used your cab yet Bas? I can’t see any comments or the usual photos you put up when you get new gear. 

How does it compare the BB2 in your eyes/ears?

TLDR: I agree with @MOSCOWBASS and @johnpaulbass that the GR cabs stand up on a sound test very well to a high-end lightweight cab such as BF and I think all three of us would say that the GR wins on overall sound quality, with an understandably bigger margin over the Super Compact than its more full range sibling the BB2. If GR can address construction concerns with their AT series cabs, they will most certainly have a winning product on their hands.

Sadly the cab had to go back due to one edge and associated corners being damaged by the courier en route. Tbf I've seen a lot better packaging of cabs from fellow BC'ers than occurred here : the retailer didn't have a particularly well fitting box, no bubblewrap and very minimal use of polystyrene both of which would have shielded the cab a lot better. But I get the sense that courier transport of cabs isn't risk free from comments elsewhere, although this experience didn't help with my concerns regarding the robustness of construction of these cabs.

Barefaced BB2 vs GR AT212-4 mini-shootout

GRBass AT212, 4Ω - 700w, 12.9kg, 4Ω, 35Hz - 222kHz, 102dB. Signal chain: Spector Euro LX5 and DG M900 set flat / clean.

"Lockdown A/B" done with assistance from a family member who is a classically trained musician and undoubtedly has younger and better hearing than my aging ears!

Sound comparison – the GR AT is excellent!

EQ set flat on both amp and bass and played both (i) finger and pick and (ii) at both neck and bridge pups.

Immediately obvious that the AT 212 is louder at a given amp volume setting. This was entirely expected when pitting a quality 2x12 4 ohm cab against a 1x12 8 ohm cab. The amp master volume was adjusted to eliminate the volume difference when comparing the sound/tone of the two cabs.

Overall, there was not a huge amount of difference in tone between the two.

• BB2 mellower and would probably sit better “in the mix”;
• AT212 was richer and more resonant = more “acoustic” / akin to having reverb added to vocals. Its greater clarity and articulation mean that it would likely “cut through the mix” more easily.

Whilst they both handle the open low B well, the AT212 delivered the low B with more punch whereas the BB2 was slightly muddier.

From a sound / tonal perspective the AT212 got both our votes.

Aside: - when I had the amp set up to optimise the tone from the BB2 to my liking (slight boost to 'presence' i.e. upper mids and treble, v slight cut to mids and lower mids and v slight boost to bass at 80Hz to give a bit more low end "weight"), my co-listener preferred the BB2 to the GR Bass as the GR started to sound sound more "metallic" to her ears with those settings. However all that is saying to me is that optimising the sound for one cab with your amp EQ won't necessarily be optimal for another cab!

Construction / ease of "toppling"

I commented earlier about a concern over the GR cabs being easy to topple, based on a couple of YT clips, so I specifically checked for this. The BB2 and AT212 cabs are the same weight, with the weight distributed towards the front panel. This means they are pretty stable in three directions, but both relatively easily topple front-panel-forward if knocked from the back (or possibly tugged at by the lead connected to amp perched on top of the cab, although this is probably very unlikely); the BB2 with its lower centre of gravity is the more stable of the two. But given these are backline cabs this hopefully is not a major concern.

I have reservations about the apparent robustness of the construction of the GR cabs and the CEO is looking to address some of these e.g. with with strengthened corners and anti-scratch plastic / rubber bars. The BF has the feel of a sturdier construction e.g. the additional reinforced side panel on both the Barefaced BB2 and Fearless F112 structurally strengthen and provide further rigidity which the GR cabs could perhaps do well to emulate. He did say that in strength tests (e.g. being thrown 3 metres) the AT cab housing actually came out favourably against wooden housing.

IMO weight advantage is of no major benefit for pure home use and where damage is likely to be minimal; its real benefit is for the (aging) gigging bassist whose backs are not as strong as in their youth! By its nature of use, gigging gear is going to get more knocks and therefore needs to be robustly constructed and designed and which is partly why Boss pedals are so well loved.

[dave_bass5]

Shame about the cab. 

 

I’m not surprised with your findings. Sounds like you were almost there. I felt the same about the low end with my BB2 going to a cab with a bit more driver area, although that was only a 1x15. A small step up, but a step up none the less.

I sort of get the metallic thing. I felt i heard something similar with my mates 1x12, but put that down to it being a lot brighter than his usual rigs and me sitting in front of it, plus it had an amp i wasn’t familiar with in it. Reminded me of those old SWR combo’s. 

 

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

TLDR: I agree with @MOSCOWBASS and @johnpaulbass that the GR cabs stand up on a sound test very well to a high-end lightweight cab such as BF and I think all three of us would say that the GR wins on overall sound quality, with an understandably bigger margin over the Super Compact than its more full range sibling the BB2. If GR can address construction concerns with their AT series cabs, they will most certainly have a winning product on their hands.

Sadly the cab had to go back due to one edge and associated corners being damaged by the courier en route. Tbf I've seen a lot better packaging of cabs from fellow BC'ers than occurred here : the retailer didn't have a particularly well fitting box, no bubblewrap and very minimal use of polystyrene both of which would have shielded the cab a lot better. But I get the sense that courier transport of cabs isn't risk free from comments elsewhere, although this experience didn't help with my concerns regarding the robustness of construction of these cabs.

Barefaced BB2 vs GR AT212-4 mini-shootout

GRBass AT212, 4Ω - 700w, 12.9kg, 4Ω, 35Hz - 222kHz, 102dB. Signal chain: Spector Euro LX5 and DG M900 set flat / clean.

"Lockdown A/B" done with assistance from a family member who is a classically trained musician and undoubtedly has younger and better hearing than my aging ears!

Sound comparison – the GR AT is excellent!

EQ set flat on both amp and bass and played both (i) finger and pick and (ii) at both neck and bridge pups.

Immediately obvious that the AT 212 is louder at a given amp volume setting. This was entirely expected when pitting a quality 2x12 4 ohm cab against a 1x12 8 ohm cab. The amp master volume was adjusted to eliminate the volume difference when comparing the sound/tone of the two cabs.

Overall, there was not a huge amount of difference in tone between the two.

• BB2 mellower and would probably sit better “in the mix”;
• AT212 was richer and more resonant = more “acoustic” / akin to having reverb added to vocals. Its greater clarity and articulation mean that it would likely “cut through the mix” more easily.

Whilst they both handle the open low B well, the AT212 delivered the low B with more punch whereas the BB2 was slightly muddier.

From a sound / tonal perspective the AT212 got both our votes.

Aside: - when I had the amp set up to optimise the tone from the BB2 to my liking (slight boost to 'presence' i.e. upper mids and treble, v slight cut to mids and lower mids and v slight boost to bass at 80Hz to give a bit more low end "weight"), my co-listener preferred the BB2 to the GR Bass as the GR started to sound sound more "metallic" to her ears with those settings. However all that is saying to me is that optimising the sound for one cab with your amp EQ won't necessarily be optimal for another cab!

Construction / ease of "toppling"

I commented earlier about a concern over the GR cabs being easy to topple, based on a couple of YT clips, so I specifically checked for this. The BB2 and AT212 cabs are the same weight, with the weight distributed towards the front panel. This means they are pretty stable in three directions, but both relatively easily topple front-panel-forward if knocked from the back (or possibly tugged at by the lead connected to amp perched on top of the cab, although this is probably very unlikely); the BB2 with its lower centre of gravity is the more stable of the two. But given these are backline cabs this hopefully is not a major concern.

I have reservations about the apparent robustness of the construction of the GR cabs and the CEO is looking to address some of these e.g. with with strengthened corners and anti-scratch plastic / rubber bars. The BF has the feel of a sturdier construction e.g. the additional reinforced side panel on both the Barefaced BB2 and Fearless F112 structurally strengthen and provide further rigidity which the GR cabs could perhaps do well to emulate. He did say that in strength tests (e.g. being thrown 3 metres) the AT cab housing actually came out favourably against wooden housing.

IMO weight advantage is of no major benefit for pure home use and where damage is likely to be minimal; its real benefit is for the (aging) gigging bassist whose backs are not as strong as in their youth! By its nature of use, gigging gear is going to get more knocks and therefore needs to be robustly constructed and designed and which is partly why Boss pedals are so well loved.

Was the BB2 compared tweaking the tweeter across the range?

[gobasserk]

My aging back ist exactly what brought GR to my attention. But I might go for cabs of more traditional construction  - I was thinking on a 410 but it is way to expensive to crack at a gig in the van. 

[Al Krow]

45 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Was the BB2 compared tweaking the tweeter across the range?

The BB2 doesn't have a tweeter control per se. You may be thinking of the crossover knob which I take (maybe mistakenly?) to be the equivalent of a Markbass VLE from the way Alex describes its operation, which is as follows: 

"At the twist of a knob the complex crossover takes you from old school bass cab smoothness to uncompromising studio monitor accuracy"

I had this set at 8/10 throughout which is I how I prefer it, i.e. pretty much at the studio monitor accuracy end. Dialling this back would have given a more "old school" / less bright sound, which would have resulted in an even more relatively mellow tone i.e. exacerbated the differences further that we were already hearing.

41 minutes ago, gobasserk said:

My aging back is exactly what brought GR to my attention. But I might go for cabs of more traditional construction  - I was thinking on a 410 but it is way to expensive to crack at a gig in the van. 

In terms of wooden boxes, I think BF are still top of the pile in terms of power / weight ratio. And frankly you're not going to ever go too far wrong with any of the BF 112s and if you can handle the additional weight a VK 410 LNT (at 52 lbs) would be awesome!

Edited April 18, 2021 by Al Krow