Jakester Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jack said: Nice setup, Jakester. I keep thinking it can't be that hard to do a feedback destroyer in software for the X-Airs. I wonder why there isn't one, especially as I'd hazard a guess that most X-Airs are used by bands running their own sound, often from the stage. I did check to see whether it could do it - apparently from the Behringer forums there was a suggestion they’d been working on it, but nothing more since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Jakester said: Well, there we go - racked in with the feedback destroyer for the singer's wedge monitor (which I think I got from you, Happy Jack!) and a random rack effects unit which was lying around looking lonely. The instant I saw that Sabine, I thought "hang on, I know that ..." Great piece of kit, that is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakester Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 Yep, it works a treat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Very handy little box for small gigs. I've drilled the rack ears out on mine to fit some connectors, so there's a Powercon in and through, feeds a junction box fitted in the back that powers the XR and a 13a socket to charge a tablet from. TP Link micro router velcroed in the back too, and the tablet, charger, and 13a > Powercon cable all live in a zip pocket in the case lid. I'll have to get a better pic when I'm down at the lockup over the weekend, the only one I can find appears to have been taken with a potato... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewblack Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, mike257 said: the only one I can find appears to have been taken with a potato... Absolute genuine tea spitting lol. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaytonaRik Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) I started with, and still have my XR18 although that's now relegated to a backup and a small acoustic trio desk duties. After 12-18 months I bit the bullet and upgraded to the X32 Rack. Think of it as an XR18 on steroids - 32 inputs, 8 FX slots (4 for insert type FX, 4 for traditional sends such as reverbs, delays etc), 12 Aux sends (possibly to use 14 is you only have a couple of send/return FX slots) enhanced routing options, AES50 digital stageboxes running over a single CAT5. I run an SD16 to the drum/backline and an SD8 to the FoH - wired vocal mics, wedges and main L/R from the SD8 and backline, kit mics and drum wedge from the SD16. Edited March 4, 2020 by DaytonaRik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Would love the rack, but don't really have a need for it. I have an X18 - the desktop shaped one, otherwise the same as an XR18, except it gives you a few other monitor options but the aux outs are on TRS instead of XLR. It has an area on the front I think the original design idea was that you placed an ipad, except it is too small if it is plugged in. I had (in fact I still have, hoarder as I am ) an XR16 that I started with. I am not sure but I think i ahve had problems with it on two occasions recently. The first was a gig just after christmas, we set the sound up and the singer said that it wasn't coming out of the left PA. I listened and it was coming out but it was really low, So i turned the PA itself up from its own knob (which I never do ). Come the show, unmute and major feedback. Turned stuff down and got it under control but unbalanced, then I realised it was because the 'quite' pa was now deafening and clipping, so turned it back to normal, put the mixer levels at normal and sound was good (lucky I make a scene save everytime I get it where I am happy just incase). At practice for my other group, one of the PA speakers didn't appear to be working, so I muted and unmuted and it was back. But I was doing other things, so I didn't really pay much attention. This is however the same PA and the same leads, so it is hardly a conclusive test. I tried it at home and everything seems fine. I have been storing it out in an outbuilding which is cold and possibly damp, and both of those events would have been in an unusually warm area so a big change of temperature. However, after a couple of hundred gigs and the fact it has not been treated well in its life (and it was second hand when I got it), if it died tomorrow, I wouldn't feel cheated and would go out and get another one. There are very few technological things that promised as much and actually delivered like this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakester Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) Hmm, so took it out again to rehearsal with a view to getting a rough guide vocal EQ for our next gig. I struggled to get anything even half decent - in the end we just used the studio PA which was miles better. It’s really odd - last time it sounded great, used exactly the same settings (ie saved the file) but this time sounded bum. Even resetting to default didn’t help. Only thing (absent my incompetence) it could have been was it was different PA speakers on both occasions (I basically used the house PA as a power amp) but the difference seemed more than that to me. The reverb was uncontrollable and the vocals sounded really boxy irrespective of the EQ. Its quite knocked my confidence and I’m worrying about our gig next weekend. 😬 I’m going to start again. Does anyone have a good baseline starting EQ for a female vocal using an SM58? Edited March 5, 2020 by Jakester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Can't help with your last question, I'm afraid, but I just wanted to reassure you. The XR18 usually works fine - the problems come from the operator (don't ask @Happy Jack and me how we know!). Since the instructions and manuals are unadulterated cr@p, and the interface is far from intuitive, it's very easy to press the wrong buttons or forget to press the correct ones. The hardware is usually not at fault, when used correctly. It just takes a lot of patience to get it right, and testing in the rehearsal room will help, but can't be the be-all and end-all. It has happened to us more than once that everything sounded glorious in our home studio, only for the band (and yours truly on the tablet) to have to contend with - for instance - screeches, hisses and horrid feedback of all kinds when set up in a different room. So the saved scenes are always just a starting point, and your sound engineer will have to re-work EVERYTHING according to the particular room you're gigging in. It's a steep learning curve, but worth it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakester Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 Thanks! I fully appreciate its operator error - my issue want I couldn’t get to the bottom of why it had happened, whereas with an analog mixer you can see immediately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Yes, there are quite a few features you can only see if you bring up one channel at a time on screen and navigate through all the tabs, checking that the values entered make sense. But it's still worth it - I don't think we would want to go back to an analogue desk, ever, except in an emergency (for which we are indeed prepared, with a spare, analogue desk!). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaytonaRik Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 We have a default scene which was created in a large, bright, cavernous hall with a high vaulted ceiling at the loudest monitor and FoH levels we could tolerate - the theory being that if we started a gig with the desk set for the most unfriendly conditions we could think of then we're not starting off the night fighting feedback etc. So far this approach has worked well with monitors rung out, channel EQs sorted and in reality apart from a few gain/EQ adjustments the only real change we make to each gig is the FoH EQ curve which has a significant bass boost to compensate for the bright 'setup' venue. It's worth investing some time and maybe even bringing in a local sound engineer to help steer you in the right direction. We took this approach and it saved us hours of experimentation/head scratching. He also pointed me in the direction of a few tricks that I'd quite likely never have found or thought of myself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Jakester said: The reverb was uncontrollable and the vocals sounded really boxy irrespective of the EQ. Its quite knocked my confidence and I’m worrying about our gig next weekend. 😬 Remember even with the same PA, every room is different. There is one pub i always have a problem with, shiney floors, walls ceiling. The guitarist keeps nagging to turn the reverb down 'there is no reverb on!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 5 hours ago, Jakester said: Does anyone have a good baseline starting EQ for a female vocal using an SM58? The big one is to keep it simple. If you do too much to it, you'll get so far away from a natural sound that it'll never feel quite right. It's something I see a lot when people go to digital - the temptation to use all sorts of processing just because they can. Flatten it all off, and start with the High Pass Filter at around 120, and cut some of the low mid mud out around 250ish, and see how it sounds from there. Less is often more. Go easy on the reverb - maybe shorten the reverb time but try increasing the pre-delay a little. This can help get it "out of the way" of the initial transients of the vocal sound, so you get a little more clarity. I often find myself cleaning up the low mid of the reverb returns too, in similar areas to the main vocal channel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 I think there's a female vocal preset here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, Jack said: I think there's a female vocal preset here. I'm always a little wary of presets. If it's a full channel preset, with EQ, compression, gating etc dialled in, it's often hard for someone inexperienced to spot where the issue is if something doesn't sit right, and whilst there's starting points I'll work from for many sources, there's definitely no one size fits all and every voice or instrument will be a little different. By all means have a play with them, but I definitely think keeping it simple is a smart approach, at least while you're getting a feel for the desk and the depth of capabilities available compared to the simple analogue set ups most people are used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakester Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, mike257 said: I'm always a little wary of presets. If it's a full channel preset, with EQ, compression, gating etc dialled in, it's often hard for someone inexperienced to spot where the issue is if something doesn't sit right, and whilst there's starting points I'll work from for many sources, there's definitely no one size fits all and every voice or instrument will be a little different. By all means have a play with them, but I definitely think keeping it simple is a smart approach, at least while you're getting a feel for the desk and the depth of capabilities available compared to the simple analogue set ups most people are used to. Yup, tried these as they’re just not what we’re going for. I think it’s start from flat again - thanks for tips I’ll give that a go too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 15 hours ago, mike257 said: I'm always a little wary of presets. If it's a full channel preset, with EQ, compression, gating etc dialled in, it's often hard for someone inexperienced to spot where the issue is if something doesn't sit right, and whilst there's starting points I'll work from for many sources, there's definitely no one size fits all and every voice or instrument will be a little different. By all means have a play with them, but I definitely think keeping it simple is a smart approach, at least while you're getting a feel for the desk and the depth of capabilities available compared to the simple analogue set ups most people are used to. I concur - its better to have a channel with no processing on it, rather than introduce processing that can bring with it more troubles than benefits. Presets don't take into account mic types which can greatly influence gain, eq, thresholds... I think you need to understand the processing and what every control does before even contemplating using them. The amount of times I've seen people struggle with PA because of poor use of compression and EQ, I'm thinking to myself, concentrate on the bassics of getting things balanced before heading into the likes of compression and gates. For people new to PA, I always advise to get themselves some raw tracks and try mixing them in the DAW and understanding how things like gates, side chaining and thresholds etc work. And then take into account what works in a DAW doesn't necessarily work live. If you start compressing the hell out of stuff and adding a load of make up gain for example... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 15 hours ago, mike257 said: I'm always a little wary of presets. If it's a full channel preset, with EQ, compression, gating etc dialled in, it's often hard for someone inexperienced to spot where the issue is if something doesn't sit right, and whilst there's starting points I'll work from for many sources, there's definitely no one size fits all and every voice or instrument will be a little different. By all means have a play with them, but I definitely think keeping it simple is a smart approach, at least while you're getting a feel for the desk and the depth of capabilities available compared to the simple analogue set ups most people are used to. This was SO what we crashed into when we first tried to use the XR18. "Oh look!" we said, "They've already got the perfect configuration for vocalists - let's start with that!". So we held a technical rehearsal in a village hall to test everything. Cue an appalling evening of howls, wails and shrieks from the system while @Silvia Bluejay tore her hair out (I haven't any to tear) and we tried to work out WFT was going on. System reset, start all over ... greatly improved by keeping everything 'vanilla' until we had a clue what we were doing. In our defence, I will repeat Silvie's earlier point about the manual being the most hopeless piece of 5h1t I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Incidentally, WFT is a bit like WTF, only with added typos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Does everyone use their Hi-Z inputs the same as all the others? For historic reasons, I have never used input one. On the XR16, the first input was labeled Hi-Z, so I thought I would leave that for an acoustic guitar or something (that never came along), and I guess I moved this practice when I went to the 18. Now after owning it for the best part of 3 years, I notice writing this post that both 1 and 2 on the 18s are labeled HiZ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Try plugging an acoustic guitar or a double bass through the Hi-Z input ... you'll be very pleasantly surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Happy Jack said: Try plugging an acoustic guitar or a double bass through the Hi-Z input ... you'll be very pleasantly surprised. Well, that is what I was leaving it for. In my previous group before I got the XAIr, the guitarist had an acoustic, we don't have one in this group, and I don't have (and wouldn't be allowed) a double bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 We keep those Hi-Z inputs as emergency for plugging the double bass (in the rockabilly band) in case of partial or total failure of the regular, highly expensive DB rig we normally use. In our tests, the difference we heard between the two setups is minimal. 😮 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Not so good on spares, 3 vocs, guitar/sax/bass 2x stereo keys and up to 5 for drums when they are used. Ooh, I could use the phono for keys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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