A very very late new bass day...and first foray into fives

[LukeFRC]

18 minutes ago, Icunningham said:

I have also played this bass many many times, I really wanted to buy this from Jamie but I live in the states and have Basses I still need to ship here. I always loved it ever since I first played it, it’s a very well played bass and Jamie is one hell of a player too! 

I get the feeling that Jamie may be a lot more famous player than I realised...

[peteb]

7 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I get the feeling that Jamie may be a lot more famous player than I realised...

More infamous really…!

Jamie and his brother JP are reasonably well known local players that float between being sort of pro and semi pro. They used to be in a function band that played a lot of corporate events a bit ago, but you will also see them playing in pub bands and in Jamie’s case, the odd metal tribute and very occasionally depping in all sorts of other bands (such as touring Europe with Chantel McGregor, etc).

You will have met Jamie, so I’m sure that you will be aware that he is not the least eccentric character around. One of the very few people who can act daft and still be funny…

[LukeFRC]

so update on this - a few months on, a few conclusions 

5 strings: not life changing, not awful. Switching now from 5 back to 4 the "oh this is simpler" is now mixed with "oh there's not the notes where I want them." Glad I am trying it out!

This bass: jury is still out. The instrument itself is amazingly lovely, but not loving either/both the preamp and pickups. I understand why prominent 55-94 player @lowregisterhead had switched them. I find the preamp just a bit annoying. Whereas my two other active bass have a great sound passive and the active lets you tweak that in a nice way this 3 band seems a lot harder to coax nice sounds out of.

[LukeFRC]

One month later... 

With some bass preamps you boost the bass or treble it makes them louder. With this Bartolini on you turn it up and it makes them sound fatter too and adds harmonic content... which is fine, but I was setting it flat and not liking it... my big penny drop moment was that "flat" on the bass seems to be cutting it a little bit. I was all ready to give up and move it on up till then. 

what I really really like about this bass is the fact that it's got loads of low mids - if I set it right I can get passably into the way that a P bass sits in the mix. - which is amazing. Now I've got the preamp kinda figured the tonal range of the thing is really really nice. What it doesn't have much of is aggressive or cutting  high mids and digging in doesn't give you any more of them either. 

In terms of the 5th string. It feels normal now. BUT for the first time I was playing something fast tonight and I noticed the 35inch scale and I was stretching more, and some bits couldn't move my hands quick enough. That's not anything to doc with having a B string, just small hands! 

[Richard R]

I'm glad you're posting these updates. I have an irrational desire to play a 5 string, despite my solemn oath to learn to play the bass I have before buying another. So following someone getting to grips over time has been interesting. I only played a couple briefly in Bass Direct before Christmas, both 35 and 34 inch. 34 felt easy, 35 felt a bit odd. Which is very strange as the only bass I own and play is 35" 😕

 

[Geek99]

4 minutes ago, Richard R said:

I'm glad you're posting these updates. I have an irrational desire to play a 5 string, despite my solemn oath to learn to play the bass I have before buying another. So following someone getting to grips over time has been interesting. I only played a couple briefly in Bass Direct before Christmas, both 35 and 34 inch. 34 felt easy, 35 felt a bit odd. Which is very strange as the only bass I own and play is 35" 😕

 

I had this same urge and unwisely gave in. It was a dead end 

[LukeFRC]

17 minutes ago, Richard R said:

I'm glad you're posting these updates.

Aww cheers. I think I'm outwardly processing with this bass quite a bit. There's the 5 string thing. (which I'm fine with and like) the 35 inch scale thing (which I'm only now getting used to the bass enough to go 'erm' with) and the sound of it (which I don't like, and love all at the same time) and the preamp and switching (which I've got my head around now) And it's trying to get my head around it all - there's been enough times that if someone offered me a half decent 4 string Precision bass in trade I might have taken them up on it... but also wanting too persevere and not take the easy route. 

Musically and having the notes on hand I'm a fan of 5s. The trade off is hand size needed. It's a really easy bass to play... but it seems to lend itself to a certain style of playing... 

 

[lozkerr]

13 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

Musically and having the notes on hand I'm a fan of 5s. The trade off is hand size needed. It's a really easy bass to play... but it seems to lend itself to a certain style of playing... 

Aye, the hand size is deffo a factor. My Fender Jazz Deluxe V has a 34" scale length, which I'm used to now after playing it exclusively for a couple of years now, but the stretch can sometimes be a bit much, as I have quite small hands and short fingers. I get round it by using the 1, 2, 3&4 double-bass technique instead of trying to stick to one finger per fret, and it makes a big difference. I don't think I could go back to a four now. 

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, lozkerr said:

I get round it by using the 1, 2, 3&4 double-bass technique instead of trying to stick to one finger per fret, and it makes a big difference.

This.

One finger per fret is not a good bass technique, even on short scale basses.

[krispn]

I recall seeing Dave Marks teaching the one finger per fret method as warm up/finger exercises but starting up around the 10th fret as the spacing was just more comfortable/practical. 

[Owen]

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

This.

One finger per fret is not a good bass technique, even on short scale basses.

I am not wanting to disagree in any contentious way, but am keen to not see things become internet folklore. I think one finger per fret is entirely plausible both on Bass Guitar and (per semitone) on DB.

Obviously everyone one is different and no one size fits all.

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, owen said:

I am not wanting to disagree in any contentious way, but am keen to not see things become internet folklore. I think one finger per fret is entirely plausible both on Bass Guitar and (per semitone) on DB.

Obviously everyone one is different and no one size fits all.

I have no problem with a finger a fret on a 34inch scale, I’ve been doing it on a 35inxh scale without thinking since November and it was only yesterday where I was doing something Fast  that was having me stretch Over two frets that I noticed the extra scale length. 

[LukeFRC]

So update time (for @Richard R if no one else)

So you might have noticed the "might sell this and get a Precision" vibe in the previous posts, to be honest that was what was on my mind for a while. I had got more or less used to the 5th string, was starting to change my playing style to suit it and was quite enjoying it. 

The bass though I was struggling with. It was like it had a eq on it with finger style where the low mids got massively boosted, and the high mids and some of the top end disappeared. I know these pickups are supposed to be 'dark', but theres something in that which should suit my playing style, not loose the definition. Interestingly pick and slap (neither of which I'm great at) sounded great. Very odd.

I started looking at precision basses.

While I did that the Lakland was sat beside me as I worked. Every so often I've been picking it up to play, and it plays amazingly. It just feels perfect. Unplugged I was liking the bass more and more. Experimenting I also found that if I cut the top end I liked the sound passive too (though it is low output). 
So the problem seemed to be the preamp... 

Way's to fix it #1:
Turn the gain up inside... this meant that the high mids came back. Seems almost obvious! So this meant I could get it sounding good. BUT generally the treble control was fine, the bass control cut was fine, the boost made it flabby. And I was having problems with the mid control... any cut was fine but seemed to cut too much of it's musical tone, and any boost seemed to be what was needed but to my ears at least seemed to be adding loads of harmonic overtones and made the sound really "wide" 

Way's to fix it #2: 
I just stuck a East Uni Pre in it. I need to fiddle a bit more - but it sounds awesome. Why every preamp doesn't have a passive tone control as well I don't know!

[chris_b]

John East pre amps are fantastic. I've only heard 2 in the flesh, both with Bartolini pickups, and the sound was the best. Good move.

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

John East pre amps are fantastic. I've only heard 2 in the flesh, both with Bartolini pickups, and the sound was the best. Good move.

I’ve just been playing it and it’s phenomenal. 
ive played a few of his preamps and this is the second I’ve owned - I think he might be the only UK bassed bass manufacturer who is world leading in his field

 

EDIT: Plus status for graphite?

Edited July 16, 2020 by LukeFRC

[Owen]

5 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

Why every preamp doesn't have a passive tone control as well I don't know!

Very much this!

[LukeFRC]

 picture cos why not?

[peteb]

I did once have an East J Retro Deluxe preamp in an active jazz (with Bartolinis) and my experience was somewhat mixed.

PROS:

Yes, it did sound great

The mid-sweep control is great and allows you to easily find the right mid frequency to cut through a mix in a difficult room

CONS:

There is so much boost and cut across so much frequency range, much of it unusable, which makes it is very easy to get a bad sound

I once passed the bass to a very good American pro player who was sitting in with a band I was playing with. The first thing he did was to turn up the bass control, as he would on any other jazz bass and immediately nearly blew my speakers! A friend of mine, who is a well-known luthier, says that he doesn’t generally recommend or use them on his own builds unless specified by the customer, as it is too easy to get a bad sound out of them. He reckons that there are more ‘musical’ preamps around, which I have agree with (for example the EWS Tri-logic).

TL;DR – they sound great but be careful out there…

[ezbass]

43 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

 picture cos why not?

And because it's in the rules.

[Old Horse Murphy]

I'm slightly late (as always) to this thread but have been reading it with a lot of interest. I've had numerous forays in to 5 Strings and have always beaten a hasty retreat back to the land of 4 strings because a) its what I'm used to b) struggled with the width of the extra string on the fingerboard (an old hand injury) and c) never had the courage to gig with one and always reverted back to my P Bass at the last moment (this last one has often been an 11th hour decision that has cause me a couple of stressful moments trying to effectively adapt my neck geography the spot rather than stick with the 5).

Lockdown has given me time to re-evaluate a lot of things, including my bass playing: that and joining a new band just before the world went crazy (crazier) which actually justified the low B.

Now having had some decent time to play a 5 string and develop my own technique that doesn't hurt my left hand (certainly not trying to stick to the one finger per fret method) and to really "learn" the 5 string has been a revelation. The scales have certainly fallen away from my eyes and I actually find it more intuitive than a 4 string to such an extent that I haven't really picked up a 4 string for the last couple of months and just concentrated on the 5 string. As someone on this thread said and I couldn't put it better myself, sticking with it and not trying to switch back and forth between a 4 and 5 has helped me massively. Having played bass for many years and considering myself to be pretty competent on the 4 string I'm sure I'll switch between a 4 and 5 at some point but at the moment, running back to Mummy is too tempting and I really need to work on the muscle memory to play a 5 string, especially if I intend to gig with it at some stage (fingers crossed). I certainly won't be taking a 4 string with me when I gig just to avoid all temptation.

35" is just a bit too far out of my comfort-zone and I really notice a massive difference when playing a 35" scale bass, so I'm sticking with the venerable SR5 for the time being.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Old Horse Murphy

[Owen]

Oooh! Cracking colour scheme!!

[LukeFRC]

Update from me.

this week I tried to learn a new song. It took me a while as I’m so out of practice.

oddly I found it as easy to practice it on the 5 string as the four. (The Odd low C instead of F excepted) 

i don’t know if I’m a “5 string player” yet, I can now move interchangeably from one to other, i will play across the strings a bit more on the 5. Lockdown and staying at home with no playing means I’ve practiced on it more and not had the “arghhh fingers strings WTF” moments mid song that would have put me off.

I guess I’m now adequately mediocre on both four and five strings. If anything it’s how this particular instrument sounds that I like, it’s so fat and loud sounding. 

[mcnach]

28 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Update from me.

this week I tried to learn a new song. It took me a while as I’m so out of practice.

oddly I found it as easy to practice it on the 5 string as the four. (The Odd low C instead of F excepted) 

i don’t know if I’m a “5 string player” yet, I can now move interchangeably from one to other, i will play across the strings a bit more on the 5. Lockdown and staying at home with no playing means I’ve practiced on it more and not had the “arghhh fingers strings WTF” moments mid song that would have put me off.

I guess I’m now adequately mediocre on both four and five strings. If anything it’s how this particular instrument sounds that I like, it’s so fat and loud sounding. 

 

I've been playing 5 string exclusively for just over a month. By now I find it quite comfortable as long as I am playing something new. The minute I try to play songs that I already knew 'on autopilot'... it's like I haven't played in years, arghhh!!!

I intend to keep using the 5 string exclusively until I'm equally comfortable. I thought I was getting pretty good, my muting is not yet perfect but I would get away with it if I had to use it live now and even slap is not great but ok, I don't miss the strings half the time like I used to  But last night I went through a bunch of songs from my band, songs I have played a million times and I made those basslines... and I just kept losing myself. I think part of the problem is I was trying to think too much, because at the end I just decided to play whatever felt right, and it started sounding ok again.

Funny thing, that extra string eh? 

[LukeFRC]

5 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

I've been playing 5 string exclusively for just over a month. By now I find it quite comfortable as long as I am playing something new. The minute I try to play songs that I already knew 'on autopilot'... it's like I haven't played in years, arghhh!!!

I intend to keep using the 5 string exclusively until I'm equally comfortable. I thought I was getting pretty good, my muting is not yet perfect but I would get away with it if I had to use it live now and even slap is not great but ok, I don't miss the strings half the time like I used to  But last night I went through a bunch of songs from my band, songs I have played a million times and I made those basslines... and I just kept losing myself. I think part of the problem is I was trying to think too much, because at the end I just decided to play whatever felt right, and it started sounding ok again.

Funny thing, that extra string eh? 

I think I'm lucky in that my 5 string has about the same string spacing at the nut and bridge as a 4 string, so feel wise it's ok, so the only times I get really messed up is when I over think not thinking about it.
I think I've probably started thinking about the lines I know how to play loads based on the G string down, rather than the E string up. 

[Richard R]

9 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I think I'm lucky in that my 5 string has about the same string spacing at the nut and bridge as a 4 string, so feel wise it's ok,

If the string spacing is the same, does that must make the neck 25% wider than the 4 string, and did you find playing a much wider neck a problem?

I'm particularly interested as the opportunity to buy a 5 string version of my Brawley has come up. Fabulous instrument, great condition, I know it will sound marvellous, but it's 50mm at the nut. It looks like the decision was to keep identical string spacing, but I am concerned I won't be able to play it. Thoughts welcome.

(The 5th string and muting doesn't worry me, I use sliding thumb anyway and I don't have a repertoire of songs already learned in muscle memory)