Fodera bass with Mike Pope Design pre-amp

[silverfoxnik]

Hi Folks,

Yesterday I had the opportunity to have a play on flippyfloop's newly acquired Fodera 4 string and it was just stunning!

I'm not sure what the specific model is but it has a mahogony core with beautiful facings, and a set neck that plays really, really nicely. Electronics wise it has an EMG P/J pick up configuration with a Mike Pope Design pre-amp in it..

The passive tones from the bass were gorgeous and when used, the active circuit expanded the tonal possibilities hugely without ever destroying or losing the inherent sound of the bass.. I don't know what Mike Pope does to his circuits to make the sound that good but it made the EMGs sound great (and I don't normally like EMGs)?

I know these basses cost a lot of money and sometimes the cynic in me says they can't possibly be good enough to justify the high price-tags you see, but I have to say this Fodera is one of the best basses I've ever heard or played..

Anyway, just thought I'd share that with you and give flippyfloop's lovely new bass a bit of a rave review here as a thank you for letting me try it out!

Cheers

Nik

[Sibob]

Sounds very cool, and i'm not negating the fact that this was an awesome bass!
But you said "one of the best basses...", would I be right in thinking 'one of the other best basses' you've ever tried have been half the price! lol

FWIW, Mike Pope is a particularly interesting guy, incredibly talented musician, so I'm not surprised that his preamp rocks

Si

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Sibob' post='398423' date='Feb 2 2009, 10:25 PM']Sounds very cool, and i'm not negating the fact that this was an awesome bass!
But you said "one of the best basses...", would I be right in thinking 'one of the other best basses' you've ever tried have been half the price! lol

FWIW, Mike Pope is a particularly interesting guy, incredibly talented musician, so I'm not surprised that his preamp rocks

Si[/quote]
Hi Si,

Good question! I said 'one of the best basses' because there's been such a variety of basses I've tried over the years, that it's difficult to ever say 'the best bass' I think.. Having said that, this bass is one of the most expensive I've ever played, so you're right about that aspect..

Some years ago, I played a Wal 6 string when they first brought them into production and it was again , just stunning! And that wasn't cheap either...

I don't know much about Mike Pope as a musician, but there's some threads on TalkBass which he contributes to a lot and he has some very interesting things to say about gear, particularly electronics..

Nik

[Sibob]

Haha, indeed, I was only playing devils advocate really, I've never tried a Fodera.
Richard Bona's has always sounded stunning live and he tends to run it passively (although his does have a pope preamp also).

Mike is a fanstastic Bass Player and a brilliant Pianist as well!

Si

[Bigwan]

Best bass I've ever played, bar none, was a Fodera Emperor 5 (also with a pope preamp). Good job too since the Gallery was looking £4k for it! Have to say I choke at the thought of anyone paying that for a bass (but someone who is willing to will be along in a minute to remind us that classical instruments cost much more...)

I'd also say that the most overpriced (IMO) bass I've ever played was a Fodera Victor Wooten 4 I played the same day.

Don't mind me... I've got the cold and am feeling a bit sad about it...

[Johnzy]

up until recently I thought fodera were the be all and end all for bass.
I had tried out the wooten model and fell in love. it was the first 4 string that actually made me consider sell all my 5's!!!!
but then last week i went to the gallery to try out the 5 string nyc jazz they've got, man was i disgusted!!! I didnt plug it in, didnt need to. it sucked!!!!
for a couple of years i've had high hopes of saving up for a 5string fodera, but now I'm not going to order it blind if at all.
lets just say fbass blew my mind!!!!

[lozbass]

I've been really impressed by the Mike Pope pre too. I won't get into the 'Foderas overly expensive' argument - yes they're very expensive, but yes, they're generally very good (I do take the point above though - I've played some Foderas I didn't get on with, a friend of mine has just sold all his Foderas to buy F basses, and most Foderas I've come across could benefit from a good set-up). I've found the passive tone with Duncan dual coils is absolutely superb (fat, rich and slightly compressed) - the passive tone circuitry looks pretty sophisiticated but it doesn't seem to make a massive difference as the pot is adjusted: the inherent tone is just lovely. I alternate between thinking I prefer the passive, then the active tone. I suspect that a lot of the quality comes from MP's very extensive experience and experimentation.

On purchasing a Fodera - I've heard a few horror stories (wait time, poor finish, fret problems, hardware problems) - and certainly wouldn't order blind. These are very expensive instruments and I'd want to try before parting with the cash. I'd also be looking towards a second-hand instrument - they come up occassionally in very good condition (let's face it, a lot of people that buy them aren't going to knock them about - they're often a bedroom or trophy bass anyway). With a second hand Fodera, you get a chance to try it and any initial problems should have been ironed-out. I'd also say, it's worth getting a really good set-up from a top luthier (whether you buy new or second-hand) - if you're going to pay £3-7k for a bass, you might as well invest £60 in some decent strings and the expertise of a top tech.

Edited February 3, 2009 by lozbass

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='lozbass' post='398823' date='Feb 3 2009, 12:39 PM']I've been really impressed by the Mike Pope pre too. I won't get into the 'Foderas overly expensive' argument - yes they're very expensive, but yes, they're generally very good (I do take the point above though - I've played some Foderas I didn't get on with, a friend of mine has just sold all his Foderas to buy F basses, and most Foderas I've come across could benefit from a good set-up). I've found the passive tone with Duncan dual coils is absolutely superb (fat, rich and slightly compressed) - the passive tone circuitry looks pretty sophisiticated but it doesn't seem to make a massive difference as the pot is adjusted: the inherent tone is just lovely. I alternate between thinking I prefer the passive, then the active tone. I suspect that a lot of the quality comes from MP's very extensive experience and experimentation.

On purchasing a Fodera - I've heard a few horror stories (wait time, poor finish, fret problems, hardware problems) - and certainly wouldn't order blind. These are very expensive instruments and I'd want to try before parting with the cash. I'd also be looking towards a second-hand instrument - they come up occassionally in very good condition (let's face it, a lot of people that buy them aren't going to knock them about - they're often a bedroom or trophy bass anyway). With a second hand Fodera, you get a chance to try it and any initial problems should have been ironed-out. I'd also say, it's worth getting a really good set-up from a top luthier (whether you buy new or second-hand) - if you're going to pay £3-7k for a bass, you might as well invest £60 in some decent strings and the expertise of a top tech.[/quote]
+1

That's a very sensible way of looking at the issue of buying such an expensive instrument.. Always best to assume it needs a good set up. IIRC, the Fodera I played at the weekend is going to have a good set up done at The Gallery pretty soon..

[lozbass]

Thank you! I use a couple of really good luthiers up here in the North, but I don't think you'd get a much better set-up than one done at the Gallery

[Marcus]

I love Fodera's I've been luck enough to own 2 VW 83 Re-issue Monarchs

Btw a couple of us here in the North East we've had half a dozen, they've just about all ended up in a Hut in Halwhistle getting Fettled by Dave Wilson !!

Class instruments...... would have another at the drop of a hat !!

Edited February 22, 2009 by Marcus

[4000]

[quote name='lozbass' post='399037' date='Feb 3 2009, 03:22 PM']Thank you! I use a couple of really good luthiers up here in the North, but I don't think you'd get a much better set-up than one done at the Gallery[/quote]

You're not wrong there Loz!

I've played a few Fodera's and must say none has really grabbed me, but I await trying Loz's with great aniticipation! (I love the MGs). FWIW, I've preferred most of the Seis I've played (don't get me on to F Bass; I played one in the Gallery the other day and it was everything I don't want in an instrument; I haven't liked any of the others I've played either).

Interestingly my Sei 4 "melt" originally had a Mike Pope preamp in but it was replaced with the Demeter by its original owner. Apparently he much preferred the Demeter.

Edited February 3, 2009 by 4000

[Gwilym]

[quote name='4000' post='399339' date='Feb 3 2009, 07:54 PM']don't get me on to F Bass; I played one in the Gallery the other day and it was everything I don't want in an instrument; I haven't liked any of the others I've played either[/quote]

wow, what didn't you like? and which F bass was it you tried?

please forgive me if this is slightly off-topic

Edited February 3, 2009 by Gwilym

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Gwilym' post='399367' date='Feb 3 2009, 08:11 PM']wow, what didn't you like? and which F bass was it you tried?

please forgive me if this is slightly off-topic [/quote]
It's basses, so it's [i]on[/i] topic!

[4000]

[quote name='Gwilym' post='399367' date='Feb 3 2009, 08:11 PM']wow, what didn't you like? and which F bass was it you tried?

please forgive me if this is slightly off-topic [/quote]

It was kind of a trans white, ash (?) body, bound neck. Looked like an F Bass. Weight like a black hole, neck the size of Jupiter. Hideous to play (for me). I didn't like anything at all about it; nothing.

Edited February 4, 2009 by 4000

[Toasted]

The Fodera that I've played most recently was one of the most touch responsive instruments I've ever used. It was simply fantastic. It was definitely more touch responsive than my Celinder, although overall, I prefered my Celinder more.

[BossHog]

Fodera...

Beautiful basses, In the respect of the too expensive debate IMO any bass is worth the price if the player has the desire to own it. A point of greater relevance as far as Fodera are concerned is are they worth the wait!!! I speak from experience on this having owned four, all brand new two ordered from dealers in the US and two directly from Fodera in Brooklyn. Two of them here...

These basses were played, they excel at this great gigging instruments.

[attachment=19712:DSCN0248.JPG][attachment=19713:DSCN0597.JPG]
[attachment=19715:DSCN0251.JPG][attachment=19714:DSCN0598.JPG]



The other two were a Monarch 83 reissue Flame Top and a Ying Yang four string which I actually returned to Fodera as it had neck issues. The average wait for a bass build is 2-3 years, there is no option to try before you buy as they are all custom builds. They operate a certified used instrument scheme in which they sell on part exchanges this is often a good way to skip lead time on a new bass. I would never go through the build time with them again, PM if anyone wants info on this. I've sold the Fodera's to fund other basses and have to agree they are stunning instruments, I just had my time with them.

It worth noting to any Fodera owners that the new Pope Preamp is now available as a retro-fit for $500.00, sweepable mids and so on...

Edited February 4, 2009 by BossHog

[BossHog]

[quote name='Johnzy' post='398697' date='Feb 3 2009, 10:52 AM']up until recently I thought fodera were the be all and end all for bass.
I had tried out the wooten model and fell in love. it was the first 4 string that actually made me consider sell all my 5's!!!!
but then last week i went to the gallery to try out the 5 string nyc jazz they've got, man was i disgusted!!! I didnt plug it in, didnt need to. it sucked!!!!
for a couple of years i've had high hopes of saving up for a 5string fodera, but now I'm not going to order it blind if at all.
lets just say fbass blew my mind!!!![/quote]

I agree Fbass are great basses, however don't let the Fodera NYC range of basses confuse you into thinking they are representative of the custom instruments they offer. There not. To me they are a reactive measure at a lower price point to try and reach a wider bunch of players by tapping into the Sadowsky NYC, Nordy, custom J bass part of the market. A tough thing to do when there are such benchmark manufacturers such as Sadowsky, Chris Celinder and Jimmy Coppolo already doing this better..

[lozbass]

To take up some of BossHog's points:

I agree entirely that Foderas should be gigged - it's what they're built for and my suspicion is that they're amazing in a live situation: I don't gig mine 'cause (i) I'm sh*te and can't get a gig, and (ii) I'm too old.

I agree too on the price issue - 'certainly worth the outlay if you want one sufficiently (and we're talking seriously good basses here). On the wait and build time, well I'd certainly balk at 2 or 3 years plus. This is one of the reasons that I went down the second hand route. The other reason is that I wouldn't part with the sums that Foderas fetch without playing a bass first. This means that you don't get to spec the bass yourself, but you do get a chance to see if it suits your playing style and tonal needs. It's also likely that any initial problems will have been dealt with. I haven't heard too many horror stories re: Foderas, however, given the price, most players are going to be justifiably picky and require a 'perfect' instrument out of the box (or a quick resolution to any initial dissatisfaction). As BossHog suggests, the 'certified used' scheme is probably a good way of sourcing a great used instrument without a crazy wait. All this said, I've never bought a second hand bass that I didn't take to be set-up to my liking straight away. This is no reflection on the sellers - some basses have been set-up beautifully but not to my (somewhat idiosyncatic) taste.

It's good to have the details of the new MP pre - I knew this was available but didn't know of the cost of retro-fitting. I'm perfectly satisfied with the original version and personally have no need. I also don't want to be without the bass for a number of weeks. I'd considered replacing the pickup covers with wooden versions on the MG but I learned from Fodera (in a very rapid response to my email) that they need the bass on their premises to effect the change. The covers are no big deal and I'd rather have the bass around so that I can play it. I must say though that I'm impressed with the turnaround time on my enquiry (a lot of questions were answered in the message too) - I don't know if anybody else has experience of Fodera's customer service, but it looks good to me.

On the NYC models, I suspect that Fodera is trading on its brand identity and trying to enter the (substantial) market at the $2-3k pricepoint. I've seen NYCs but haven't played one. I can understand the strategy and business model, however, the market is crowded with other high kudos brands. I'm sure that NYCs will sell because of Fodera's branding and profile. I can't comment on quality but suspect that the customs are quite different in terms of construction and attention to detail.

Finally, some thoughts on my own experience with Fodera. The electronics are superb. I've owned and played a good number of high-end basses but the Fodera sounds 'better' to me than nearly all of them (i.e., it's capable of exactly the tonal characteristics that I look for). In terms of playability, it's almost flawless. The action is super low, the tension is very low (not to everybody's taste), and there are just three 'dull' notes around octave c-e flat on the high c (I've only ever played three basses that didn't have any dead or dull notes - two Alembics and a Sei). Ergonomics are perfect for me - the MG is a very compact bass. The 33" scale feels shorter because of the body shape and positioning of the bridge. The bass is very heavy but extremely comfortable either on a strap or played sitting. It simply 'feels right' and I suspect that considerable thought was dedicated to ergonomics and comfort throughout the design process. Construction is amongst the very best I've ever seen: the MG is made from a lot of pieces of (exceptionally beautiful) wood and the jointing and finishing is simply superb. This is not just my view - I took the bass to a famous luthier and he agreed. Even unplugged, the bass is incedibly resonant and the fundamentals ring through across the board. In sum, the Fodera is very much at the top end of high end. For me (and I've only owned the MG), Foderas are superb working instruments and can fit just about any bill. Fantastic to play (with a good set-up), aesthetically pleasing, solid, and tonally very versatile. Again, I don't want to get into the 'too expensive' debate. The MG wasn't cheap, however, I am very pleased with the bass, so no problem.

Edited February 4, 2009 by lozbass

[Mokl]

A few years back I took one of Marcus' Foderas off him (a nice VW Monarch, hello Marcus!), and my journey with this bass has been an interesting one so far. It does have some annoying flaws, the lacquer has cracked in a few places (and continues to do so), and initially the neck needed very regular adjustments to keep it where I like it, although it has settled now. There are a few high spots on the frets too, although I have been working slowly on the setup over the last few years and it is close to where I want it now (I say slowly because it is the mother of all masking jobs to protect the board everytime I fancy a tinker with the fret file!) . To be fair though, the action as I have it is barely over 1mm - 1.5mm at the 24th fret, so a little choking and buzz is hardly worth condemning the instrument for! My bass has a slightly unusual fingerboard wood too, which I think has exacerbated the problem. These things might bother me if I thought I would ever get rid of the bass, but frankly, there is no chance of me ever doing that. I rang Fodera when I first had the bass with a query and spoke to Vinnie himself. He could not have been more courteous or helpful, and he seemed genuinely concerend with my enquiry.

One thing I have found is that the bass has required a lot of "playing in", and has only recently started to really show it's pedigree and true tone. It was only about a year old when I got it, I think, so this might have something to do with it. I have gone through periods of really being unsure about whether I liked it or not, but now I have really gotten used to the feel of it, and the instrument seems to have "opened up", I really do love it. The tone and playability, for me at least, are outstanding.

So far as the comments about gigging this bass are concerned, this is by far the most versatile bass I have owned, and the easiest to get a consistently great sound out of, both onstage and front-of-house. I would never have invested so much in an instrument without doing my darnedest to get my moneys worth, so it get's played out at every opportunity with my functions band and anything else that crops up. It would be a crime to have this sat at home doing nothing IMO. I do worry about it getting stolen, because I know that I would struggle to replace it, not least because of it's value, and also because I don't know what I would select as an alternative.

On a final note I must say that I also like the way it looks; it looks classy without being oestentatious. I don't feel a complete twit when I pull it out of the case and strap it on, like I'm trying to make a statement or something. When I turn up to band practise with with the Fodera the band often comment on how great it sounds, whereas with some of the other high end stuff I've had they've mabye noticed the looks... but not always in a positive way lol!

Edited February 4, 2009 by Mokl

[Russ]

Foderas look great and play brilliantly, but I've never really found them to be "tone monsters" - the ones I've tried (a VW 4, a Matt Garrison 5 and a couple of others) have been a little too thin and delicate-sounding for me. A little too "hi-fi", if you like. Obviously pretty good for certain applications, but not for me.

[fretless bob]

ive had mine (a 5 string emporer deluxe, 35" scale, mahogany body, beautiful buckeye top kingwood board and aero pickups) since may 06, it was built in 2001. i bought it used through the groove shoppe in the states, the guy who owned it before me never gigged it once, it looked like he had spent more time polishing it than playing when i got it, but it as been gigged a lot since then and that is definetely what they are made to do.

ive been on gigs when someone in the audience has literally gone nuts when they realise what im playing which is quite funny. i have never played a bass thats easier to get around, it is very effortless and balances great. as for tone they dont do what a really old jazz or p bass will do which is a tone that i find myself wanting alot lately but that is a silly camparison to make as that is not what they are designed to do, in my eyes nothing works better than a fodera in a jazz setting, for me they just work perfectly on that kind of gig, the ease of play and general timbre of the instrument just fit, they are great for the funk gigs and they slap well (not that im really a slapper though)

as for price they are expensive but rightly so the materials used are very expensive and in many cases the woods used are very old, ( i spoke to Dave Beasley about it who picked the woods for my bass from the shop when he worked there and it turns out the necks woods they use now are at least 15 years old, when someone like wooten's bass was made the woods were up to 30 years old) which is the most important thing in getting a good sound out of a bass anyway and everything is done by hand and to a very high standard, also considering the endorsees they have they could charge whatever they want.

if you want to get one make sure you know what your buying as options and sounds can vary

[flippyfloop]

Thanks for your comments Silverfoxnik.
I'm soooooo happy with my Fodera Monarch. Its light, yet it sounds like a heavy bass. The passive sound is very lush & the active preamp builds upon the fundamental sound. I've had a lot of basses in the past that sounded great at home but on a gig the sound would vanish. This would also cause me to dig in way to much causing fatigue and sore fingers. I like to play with a light touch and this bass accommodates this very well. At a gig, every note is clear and full, with the minimum of effort. I'm a full time pro bass player & I've been playing for 20 years & this is by far the best bass I've owned. It's a bass for life. Yes, It was expensive & I'll be paying it off for a while plus I've had to say goodbye to a couple of much loved basses. Worth every penny...... I'm a very happy man

P.S. I've tried some Fodera's in the past that did nothing for me, unlike this one.

Cheers.

Here's a slightly pale pic. Doesn't really do it justice. I can post some more if you like ?

Edited February 5, 2009 by flippyfloop