mcgraham Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) I've sent out a vast number of copies of these exercises to various forumites. I was wondering if you could share how you've been finding them. Even if you've not been using them or not got very far, I (for one!) would like to know. Mark P.S. If anyone else would like a copy please feel free to PM me with a request and your email so I can forward the documents and some tips/advice on how to best make use of them. Edited February 10, 2009 by mcgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Hi Mark, I was one of those you sent them to. I have to confess i didn't get very far with them because (without wanting to sound ungrateful) I found them a bit dull tbh. I don't get much practice time for stuff like this so I had to prioritize, and improving my reading needs to come first - but thanks for taking the trouble to send them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hi Steve Thanks for your honest reply! I can't believe of all the people I've sent it to only one person has replied and been honest. They are not the most exciting exercises, but they are more musical than most, and they are difficult to get up to speed cleanly. It's an unavoidable fact that if you want to get better at something, strict formal repetition is the only way to get better at it. That's one of the reasons a lot of 'musicians' reach a plateau: they get bored of/with practicing. If your priorities lie with reading, fair enough, but I would encourage you to find exercises you don't find boring and get into it. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='mcgraham' post='405109' date='Feb 10 2009, 10:12 AM']Hi Steve Thanks for your honest reply! I can't believe of all the people I've sent it to only one person has replied and been honest. They are not the most exciting exercises, but they are more musical than most, and they are difficult to get up to speed cleanly. It's an unavoidable fact that if you want to get better at something, strict formal repetition is the only way to get better at it. That's one of the reasons a lot of 'musicians' reach a plateau: they get bored of/with practicing. If your priorities lie with reading, fair enough, but I would encourage you to find exercises you don't find boring and get into it. Mark[/quote] I agree with everything you say above. I'm not in the happy position to be able to commit to a regular practice regime at the moment, which is a shame - that would make it easier to incorporate such as this. As it is, I pick up my bass whenever I can (which is most days for varying durations, so it's not all bad) and have to concentrate on band material mainly, with some reading practice on an opportunistic basis. Not ideal, but at least it's regular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 [quote]I agree with everything you say above. I'm not in the happy position to be able to commit to a regular practice regime at the moment, which is a shame - that would make it easier to incorporate such as this. As it is, I pick up my bass whenever I can (which is most days for varying durations, so it's not all bad) and have to concentrate on band material mainly, with some reading practice on an opportunistic basis. Not ideal, but at least it's regular.[/quote] It is difficult to fit it in to a busy lifestyle. I find that there's enough hours after work to get practice in, but if I have something else on it completely takes my evening away. And lately it's getting pretty bad. I find myself getting up earlier to get practice in. I commend you for identifying what you want to work on and doing it though, most people who profess to be musicians can't even do the first part, let alone getting onto doing the second. Keep it up! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey D Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hi. I got these as well. I found them to be alright to play, but then I have practiced similar things quite a bit before, but more just out of practicing scales and patterns in scales naturally. Overall I don't think i will be adding them to my practice regime as I don't see myself using them in an actual playing situation. They are great for dexterity, coordination etc, but I would rather practice this in conjunction with fragments/shapes I would actually use in my playing (saying that, I'm sure one or two may be what i'm talking about, but I haven't played through all of them). I feel it is better to see it as a concept. i.e. come up with a shape of say play a note go up a forth play three scalar notes then done a forth for an example, rather than using the strict examples laid out in the hanon. (I think that makes sense!?) Ornette Coleman was one for doing this, known for coming up with a lick or shape and running it though every conceivable option to make it into a complete exercise. But thank you for sending them to me and no doubt I will dig them out occasionally just to have a go at some of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) [quote]Overall I don't think i will be adding them to my practice regime as I don't see myself using them in an actual playing situation. They are great for dexterity, coordination etc, but I would rather practice this in conjunction with fragments/shapes I would actually use in my playing (saying that, I'm sure one or two may be what i'm talking about, but I haven't played through all of them). I feel it is better to see it as a concept. i.e. come up with a shape of say play a note go up a forth play three scalar notes then done a forth for an example, rather than using the strict examples laid out in the hanon. (I think that makes sense!?)[/quote] That's exactly the point. They themselves are just exercises, albeit musical ones. The point is they cover an aspect of playing the bass that is not typically covered by most parts written for a bass. They involve rapid and intermittent string skipping, use linear playing, together with raking, requires precise and accurate shifting, works out different fingers and different fingering permutations for each position, helps with efficient finger rolling/barring, and makes you work hard at efficient muting... I don't think I need to go on. If you already have that covered, fair enough. They are, at the end of the day, just a means to an end. If you don't experiment with them you're missing the point. They are simple, they're not songs, not rhythmically interesting at all. Most bassists will be able to handle them up to maybe 16ths at 100-120bpm. But making them sound clean, with good tone, no ringing strings or duff notes at 150, 180, 200, and beyond isn't great. Part of the difficulty in developing good chops is not knowing where to start, not knowing what will definitely get you said chops, and not being efficient with your practice time and your method of practice. Hanon will answer the first two questions, and the bumf I put in the email will help address the third. Mark P.S. I used them in my exercise routine a few years ago, now I use them as warmup to get up to speed quickly. Metronome goes up by 10-30bpm each time, and on each 'round' I use Hanon, chromatic exercise, four finger chromatics, and 9th arpeggios. 15-30 minutes on that and I'm warmed up and up to speed. Edited February 11, 2009 by mcgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High score Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote name='mcgraham' post='406040' date='Feb 11 2009, 10:03 AM']That's exactly the point. They themselves are just exercises, albeit musical ones. The point is they cover an aspect of playing the bass that is not typically covered by most parts written for a bass. They involve rapid and intermittent string skipping, use linear playing, together with raking, requires precise and accurate shifting, works out different fingers and different fingering permutations for each position, helps with efficient finger rolling/barring, and makes you work hard at efficient muting... I don't think I need to go on. If you already have that covered, fair enough. They are, at the end of the day, just a means to an end. If you don't experiment with them you're missing the point. They are simple, they're not songs, not rhythmically interesting at all. Most bassists will be able to handle them up to maybe 16ths at 100-120bpm. But making them sound clean, with good tone, no ringing strings or duff notes at 150, 180, 200, and beyond isn't great. Part of the difficulty in developing good chops is not knowing where to start, not knowing what will definitely get you said chops, and not being efficient with your practice time and your method of practice. Hanon will answer the first two questions, and the bumf I put in the email will help address the third. Mark P.S. I used them in my exercise routine a few years ago, now I use them as warmup to get up to speed quickly. Metronome goes up by 10-30bpm each time, and on each 'round' I use Hanon, chromatic exercise, four finger chromatics, and 9th arpeggios. 15-30 minutes on that and I'm warmed up and up to speed.[/quote] pm sent - can I get them please?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Sure... once you send me an email address You forgot to put it in your PM. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High score Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote name='mcgraham' post='406081' date='Feb 11 2009, 10:40 AM']Sure... once you send me an email address You forgot to put it in your PM. Mark[/quote] sorry, had a brain f*rt......pm sent thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 No worries, it's winging its way to you now. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I'm rather curious now... Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 You're welcome to a copy Alex. Be warned though, if you're looking for super-exciting-thrill-a-minute exercises they won't do it. If you're looking for something that [i]will[/i] help you develop great technique through structured practice that isn't as ludicrous as running chromatic scales all day long, then this is a great start. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 My mantra for practice material: If its dull and repetitive, it'll probably work... (I have the Hanon and have used it on piano not bass. I could do with some bass practice but other things are in the way at the moment. Why does that always happen?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote]If its dull and repetitive, it'll probably work... (I have the Hanon and have used it on piano not bass. I could do with some bass practice but other things are in the way at the moment. Why does that always happen?).[/quote] Well... dull is a fairly subjective term. I happen to like the challenge of getting better, though it's certainly not as exciting as writing a song, learning a song, a riff, trancribing etc. Paul Gilbert said in a video interview he has this one lick he reeeeally loved. He practiced it over and over and over for months. He said he practiced it so much, it became easy to play. So he played it faster, over and over and over, until it became easy to play, and so on so forth. That's how you get to play fast, he said, doing the same things over and over until they become easy. There's no way around it. To draw a parallel with another activity, Ronnie Coleman (7 or 8 time Mr Olympia winner) said, in his own inimitable way, "everybody wanna be a bodybuilder but nobody wanna lift no heavy ass weights". Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burno70 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I've recently realised that I've hit a plateau which I want to break out of. These could be what I'm looking for. I've PM'd you with me email if you could send those exercises over? Cheers Ste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6stringbassist Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I bought a copy of this a couple of years ago, after hearing Janek Gwizdala recommend it. I find it really useful for sightreading practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthewalrus Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 PM sent... Cheers, iamthewalrus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnSlade07 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I'd appreciate a copy mate. PM sent. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beneath It All Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='mcgraham' post='400016' date='Feb 4 2009, 02:43 PM']I've sent out a vast number of copies of these exercises to various forumites. I was wondering if you could share how you've been finding them. Even if you've not been using them or not got very far, I (for one!) would like to know. Mark P.S. If anyone else would like a copy please feel free to PM me with a request and your email so I can forward the documents and some tips/advice on how to best make use of them.[/quote] ..................First of all, many thanks for mailing me with the exercises; I too find them a wee bit on the boring side!! Personally I reckon there's much more to be learned from Bachs inventions/preludes and fugues - all keys major & minor, useful lines that you can actually utilise..You also get to learn a little about Form..Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 [quote]Personally I reckon there's much more to be learned from Bachs inventions/preludes and fugues - all keys major & minor, useful lines that you can actually utilise..You also get to learn a little about Form..Cheers[/quote] Thanks for your honest response! To respond in kind, there is much more to be learned from actual pieces. However people don't seem to be able to take it in that these exercises are aimed at developing technique. Even on piano that is the aim of these exercises. They cover all bases and aspects of technique on both piano and electric bass. How? Because they are minor boring variations of each other so that no stone is left unturned in rounding out your technique. You see them as boring, I see them as a means to an end. The difficulty with actual pieces is that, unless they are directed towards covering all aspects of technique, it is hit and miss whether you can develop well rounded and effective technique. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB26354 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Which partly explains why the technical difficulty of most reasonable classical pieces is way beyond most "rock" players - we don't tend to play this kind of stuff and even some fairly straightforward pieces (like Bach Cello Suites) are a big challenge technically. That's even before you get to expression and dynamics. But then again these are not common everyday requirements for Bass as a function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Indeed. I particularly like Paganini's Caprices on guitar. Excellent for sweeping, alternate picking, string skipping, hybrid picking, finger rolling, position shifting, understanding chromaticism, the works. What I meant was that, whilst classical pieces are difficult, they are not intended to be a technical workout in the way that Hanon is. As such, it [i]will [/i]improve your technique from where it was to start with as they are difficult, but a given piece [i]may not[/i] evenly develop your technique. Repetitive sets of exercises that approach technique from every possible angle (though they may seem boring) can guarantee that, with practice, you will achieve well rounded technique that will allow you to traverse your instrument with ease. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Thanks a lot for sending those through Mark- seems good stuff. Also, there's plenty of notes below the E string which is something I've been looking for in reading practice. Will let you know how I get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 This thread has inspired me to have another go with these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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