Which Luthier and Why?

[BigBeefChief]

A lot of you guys are into your custom basses and there seem to be some real quality stuff being produced by UK luthiers.

I'm not really the custom bass type, but I've always been interested as to why someone would select a certain luthier over another.

I'm also interested to find out why you went down the luthier route as opposed to buying something off the shelf?


So, custom bass players out there - why did you go with Shuker/ACG/RIM etc?

What made you decide to go for something hand-built over something tried and tested many thousand times over (eg Fender).


Please note, this is not meant to be a "XYZ is the best out there, all the rest are sh*t" type thread. Just interested in getting your views. I hate confrontation and won't stand for any on my thread. Oh no.

I apologies if this thread already exists elsewhere. I couldn't find it and I'm not very good at using the search function.

[simon1964]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='400082' date='Feb 4 2009, 03:44 PM']I hate confrontation and won't stand for any on my thread. Oh no.[/quote]

Lol!

Well, I've just taken a delivery of a Shuker.

I decided on a custom bass because, to an extent, any mass-produced bass is a compromise, however good it is. I have owned (and still own) some great Fender, Musicman, Ibanez, and Warwick basses, but ultimately they were all what someone else thought was a good design. By ordering custom I could go for any choice of body style, pickups, electronics that took my fancy. If I want a feature that no-one else wants, I can have it. A mass-produced bass has to sell to thousands of customers to make money, so their designs have to conform to the lowest common denominator.

As to why Shuker, location was a factor. I live less than an hour from his workshop. But even so, having played some of his basses, they were all fantastic. And the great thing is that he didn't try to tell me what I wanted from my bass. He listened to what I was after and then advised on the best way to get that. I'm sure most of the other custom builders do the same, which again is one of the attractions of a custom build.

And with Jon, you get a handmade bass for a very competitive price. You would pay more for many top end, mass-produced, basses.

Edited February 4, 2009 by simon1964

[ped]

Spot on Simon. I haven't gone custom myself and don't think I ever will (only because I have found a bass I am very happy with) but that all makes perfect sense. Makes me wonder why everyone doesn't do it!

Cheers
ped

[OutToPlayJazz]

Disclaimer: The following comments are strictly my own personal opinions as a professional musician... So don't lynch me!

Firstly, why would I go for a boutique custom instrument? Because the ones I have give me the sounds I need, are vastly superior to play than mostly everything else I've ever played & the customer service with your own luthier is second to none.

My own personal favourite (no surprise here, then!) is Status-Graphite. For the last nearly 30 years, every bass that has passed through the hallowed industrial unit in Colchester has passed through Rob Green's hands. He sets basses up by feel & they are always consistant to the millimetre. (I've checked on my own basses!) I like the way I'm treated there - Like a pro. And I always get exactly what I want. So I don't just like the playability of the Status basses, but also the sound. They have a growl like nothing else & I just love the almost 3d quality of sound they produce. It's almost as if the graphite gives the sound an extra dimension entirely.

I'm also a big fan of Bernie Goodfellow of GB basses. I've played a few of the older basses & had one for a short while in the early 90's, and more recently had a go on a more modern Rumour bass. Stunning workmanship & playability.

I'm not so much of a fan (personally) of JayDee. I've played a lot of JayDees and never found one I liked. The instruments seem to lack output compared to a Status & always seem such hard work to play.

Overwater isn't my cup of tea, either. I played one of the original 'angled block' shape OW's many years ago & loved it. Every more modern OW I've played since has felt very ordinary and sounded no different to so many other generic instruments. Perhaps I've just been unfortunate and played some dogs, but they do seem to be consistantly dull!

I'd really like to try a Shuker bass. I've never played one, but I know so many people on here are totally satisfied with them. We'll see

Rich.

[simon1964]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='400130' date='Feb 4 2009, 04:19 PM']I'd really like to try a Shuker bass.[/quote]

There'll be one at the Nottignham Bass Bash if you can make it!

[andyonbass]

Quite simple for me, really - I have never had an off the shelf instrument that I haven't needed to modify in order to improve some aspect of it.

As rightly pointed out, there are some extremely talented luthiers out there, making the choice very difficult, but what clinched it for me was that Alan at ACG responded to my emails within minutes every time, regardless of how dumb my questions probably were!!

[thedontcarebear]

I chose ACG for cost and communication.

[Lfalex v1.1]

I think proximity has a part to play with customs.
People will [i]generally[/i] opt for a more local luthier if possible, unless Mr X (further away) can offer something your "local" luthier can't.
The hardest part is that you're unlikely to be able to try a load of different luthiers' output in one place at one time (except at the national bash or the bigger local ones!!)

One point to pick up from both Ped and Out to play Jazz;
Your instruments aren't custom [i]per se[/i], but they do have unusual features and different designs to the norm. Status instruments are usually made to order from a standard design format with further options available.
I'd class Instruments from some lower volume producers as being half way to a full-on (unique) custom.
Bear in mind that (certainly) Shuker and Iceni have a "regular" instrument range available, presumably GB, ACG, RIM, Sei, Overwater et al do the same.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='400082' date='Feb 4 2009, 03:44 PM']So, custom bass players out there - why did you go with Shuker/ACG/RIM etc?[/quote]

Because Fender doesn't make basses that look like a lottery winner's dining table?

[simon1964]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='400206' date='Feb 4 2009, 05:32 PM']Because Fender doesn't make basses that look like a lottery winner's dining table?[/quote]

You could argue they do

[url="http://www.fender.co.uk/products//search.php?partno=0196600821"]http://www.fender.co.uk/products//search.p...rtno=0196600821[/url]

but not as well (IMO!)

Edited February 4, 2009 by simon1964

[Rayman]

I've just plumped for an Overwater. Always wanted one, for various reasons. I like them aesthetically, the progress/perception shape I think is stunning to look at, and I like the layout of the electrics. I have to say, I'm not easily impressed either by some of the wierd and not so wonderful shapes some luthiers favour, but Overwater seem to be a bit more reserved in terms of styling. A Wal would be my dream purchase, but w[i]aaaa[/i]y out of my price range, and I always felt Overwaters were simillar to Wals in some ways.

If money was no object, I'd find a nice Wal, or a custom made Fodera. I'd also go to Alan @ ACG to build me something from scratch. He makes outstanding quality instruments at an unbelievably low price for the work.

I've never had a top quality bass like the Overwater before, I could never afford it, so it feels special to me to own something like that for the first time. Hopefully by Saturday, I'll have it, and I'll have a great big smile across my face.

There's nothing better to me than a battered Fender Jazz though, and if you can get your hands on a nice one, it's all you need.

[thisnameistaken]

A related question: Do those of you with really expensive basses actually gig them? I don't think I'd want to take a bass worth £1000+ out to a pub gig.

I suppose with vintage gear it's a bit different, because I wouldn't mind if it picked up a few scrapes, but a shiny new quilt-topped thing with matching wood knobs wouldn't look too clever with big dings in it.

[simon1964]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='400244' date='Feb 4 2009, 05:59 PM']A related question: Do those of you with really expensive basses actually gig them? I don't think I'd want to take a bass worth £1000+ out to a pub gig.

I suppose with vintage gear it's a bit different, because I wouldn't mind if it picked up a few scrapes, but a shiny new quilt-topped thing with matching wood knobs wouldn't look too clever with big dings in it.[/quote]

I have to admit that I'd be very reluctant to take the Shuker out to some of the pubs we play, which is a shame, but I would be gutted if some drunken idiot spilled his beer on it (and that's just our drummer....). I think the Precision and 'ray will have to continue as main gigging basses.

I'll probably take it to some of the ''nicer'' venues or private functions though.

[Tinman]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='400244' date='Feb 4 2009, 05:59 PM']A related question: Do those of you with really expensive basses actually gig them? I don't think I'd want to take a bass worth £1000+ out to a pub gig.

I suppose with vintage gear it's a bit different, because I wouldn't mind if it picked up a few scrapes, but a shiny new quilt-topped thing with matching wood knobs wouldn't look too clever with big dings in it.[/quote]
Yes, all the time. What's the point in spending all that money and waiting all that time, if you're just going to look at it.
It's a tool of the trade, expensive I grant you but still a tool of the trade.

[Prosebass]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='400206' date='Feb 4 2009, 05:32 PM']Because Fender doesn't make basses that look like a lottery winner's dining table?[/quote]



I think this deserves to go in the "Great quotes" thread...

Edited February 4, 2009 by Prosebass

[bass_ferret]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=128"]see this thread[/url]

And they both get gigged all the time.

Edited February 4, 2009 by bass_ferret

[hubrad]

Personally, the nicest bass I ever played so far is this one:

[url="http://www.themusicroom-online.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/253"]http://www.themusicroom-online.co.uk/produ...products_id/253[/url]

from Overwater. I sold it - one of those happy-and-sad moments!
I play an extremely customised Ibanez Roadster (remember those?) and I'm building up to doing a Build Diary as I've got it off the road for a re-face. These days, it's a 5-string headless fretless.. all done by me and so personalised that whatever I tried I coudn't find anything I preferred. Until the above!
If I had a couple of grand to spend and more electric gigs the Overwater above would have been mine over a year ago!
Those Carlisle chaps are, as has already been said of other makers, also really good to deal with.

Most importantly, you have to find someone who makes the right bass for you.

HUGH

[Kiwi]

There's nothing specific in favour, its a combination of things for me. If anything it's about the lack of something that will make me look elsewhere, such as:

1) Lack of a well set up and stable neck
2) Lack of a comfortable and ergonomic body
3) Unreasonable or inconsistent prices
4) Lack of warmth and growl
5) Lack of agreement on what a good instrument actually is

In that order, although the lack of the first two will usually be enough to take the luthier out of the running. The lack of the 4th point can usually be rectified in a custom instrument but there's no point in trying if the 5th point isn't there.

After that its mostly about service, a willingness to accommodate and offering helpful advice.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='400244' date='Feb 4 2009, 05:59 PM']A related question: Do those of you with really expensive basses actually gig them? I don't think I'd want to take a bass worth £1000+ out to a pub gig.

I suppose with vintage gear it's a bit different, because I wouldn't mind if it picked up a few scrapes, but a shiny new quilt-topped thing with matching wood knobs wouldn't look too clever with big dings in it.[/quote]
Yes! Absolutely. Hard to justify the cost to myself otherwise. Dings on a custom bass don't look good, I have to agree but I don't go leaping around like a man possessed on stage. (I'd probably end up hurting myself or others around me.) You can also select finishes on custom instruments that take knocks better. For example, those mirror finishes may look nice when the instrument is brand new but a satin finish is easier to repair spot spray because it doesn't need the same kind of buffing. Same reason for Warwick using wax finishes I think as well but I don't know how Warwick owners managed to keep their instruments grime free. The beauty of a custom instrument is that you can specify a easy-to-repair finish if you like.

[4000]

Sei Bass.

I love Martin's designs aesthetically (more than anyone else's), the workmanship is about as good as it gets, his basses are always built to be extremely comfortable and playable, he'll try to build your perfect bass (albeit in the context of a Sei), and he's about as nice a guy as you'll ever meet; I get on with him extremely well. He's actually the other end of the country from me but does that make a difference? No. Of all the luthiers in the UK, I like Sei basses the best; they generally tick all my boxes more than anyone else's (and by a wide margin).

Edited February 4, 2009 by 4000

[Russ]

Having tried a lot of basses over the years, I was frustrated that there wasn't an instrument that combined all the best features from my favourites, with a few other touches that only a custom luthier can provide. You might like the neck profile of one bass, but not the tone or choice of finishes, you might love the tone of another, but hate the neck, etc... if so, custom's the way to go, and luckily there's lots of great luthiers out there right now, at every price point. You can now get *your* bass for less than the price of a US Fender.

Plus, I've always been one for having things that are unique to me - in musical terms, a custom bass is pretty much the manifestation of that. I've had 3 Seis and a GB over the years, and my current 5-string Sei is the bass I had always wanted - I've had it for 6 years and it just keeps getting better. I think another Sei will be on the agenda hopefully some time in 2009.

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='400244' date='Feb 4 2009, 05:59 PM']A related question: Do those of you with really expensive basses actually gig them? I don't think I'd want to take a bass worth £1000+ out to a pub gig.

I suppose with vintage gear it's a bit different, because I wouldn't mind if it picked up a few scrapes, but a shiny new quilt-topped thing with matching wood knobs wouldn't look too clever with big dings in it.[/quote]
Thats why I like solid colours and not furniture basses. I dont care if they do get some battle scars. Hell the red one is even painted with cellulose

[4000]

I've gigged everything I've owned that was giggable. The only reason I didn't gig my Alembic TO was because it didn't suit my current band, but if it fits the band, I play it (gigged the Stanley Clarke I had previously). I played my Sei 6 in the sort of place pirates fear to go.

Edited February 4, 2009 by 4000

[johnnylager]

I would get one from Bernie Goodfellow - 'cos he's funny as f*** and swears a lot. And makes nice basses. And what Ferrett said.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='johnnylager' post='400381' date='Feb 4 2009, 08:17 PM']I would get one from Bernie Goodfellow - 'cos he's funny as f*** and swears a lot. And makes nice basses. And what Ferrett said.[/quote]
If Skelf or Rob Green ever wants you as a customer, they've got some tips right there.

[GreeneKing]

I only have significant experience of one luthier, Alan Cringeon of ACG.

Alan's designs are distinctive and that gives his basses a brand identity. I, like many others find his range of shapes covers a wide spectrum of tastes and the Harlot wins it for me every time.

If you go to Alan and want something that's distinctly someone elses design then I suspect he may point you elsewhere, and why not he has to spend many hours crafting the instrument that'll carry his name and reputation. He's not a jobbing builder but a guy creating his own concept.

There's been, imo some crap written about 'furniture basses' and 'coffee tables' but if a bass is made from wood why not celebrate the innate beauty of it? Alan will be the 1st to say 'a bass is a tool, go out and use it'.

Which brings me to the next aspect of his basses. He takes care to research, source and experiment with his own ideas when it comes to pickups and electronics. He is constantly trying out new types of pickup and refining his pre-amp. He doesn't buy in stock gear and plonk it on.

I have owned far too many basses (probably over 40 ) and my ACG Harlot surpasses them all in every respect. I'm not just bigging this up because I think Alan's a fine guy (he is) but because in terms of playability, neck profile, tone, weight, balance and ascetics it's simply awsome. It'll be at Harrogate if anyone wants a go, slappers keep away

Peter