Which Luthier and Why?

[thisnameistaken]

I always think the proportions on Goodfellow basses look a bit off. The back end looks fat, but overall they look sort-of thin. It's very disconcerting.

To be honest I don't think I'd ever have a bass built for me because - after 20 years of playing - I don't really think I'd know what to ask for. I'm very happy with the ones I've got but, for example, while I definitely prefer the feel of the neck on my Warwick to my Stingray, I couldn't describe the difference between them.

[hubrad]

[quote name='Russ' post='400313' date='Feb 4 2009, 07:10 PM']You can now get *your* bass for less than the price of a US Fender.[/quote]

This is actually a really good point, Russ. Now we've lost the advantageous USD rate and the Euro and Yen have gone the same way and worse, this is a really good time to be looking at British made gear.
A hiscox case, just as a basic example, is now only about 2 quid more than its Chinese 'equivalent. I know which one I can tap dance (well..) on in front of a customer.
Obviously I don't advise tap dancing on a bespoke bass guitar, but it could provide your band with that elusive Unique Selling Point:D

HUGH

Edited February 4, 2009 by hubrad

[henry norton]

I think it's alot to do with service. I remember going to the Bass Centre in the early ninties and it seemed like they really didn't give a s##t whether I gave them 900 quid of my hard earned cash for a nice Stingray 5 or not. I walked away and never went back again - tossers. If I was to have that sort of money to spend on a bass again (or whatever 900 odd quid in 1990 is now), I wouldn't even look at a music shop. When you invest in a custom bass you're investing in the luthier and getting that personal service you will never get from even the most enthusiastic salesperson. It's like the difference between M&S and Saville Row.

[4000]

[quote name='henry norton' post='400467' date='Feb 4 2009, 09:52 PM']I think it's alot to do with service. I remember going to the Bass Centre in the early ninties and it seemed like they really didn't give a s##t whether I gave them 900 quid of my hard earned cash for a nice Stingray 5 or not. I walked away and never went back again - tossers. If I was to have that sort of money to spend on a bass again (or whatever 900 odd quid in 1990 is now), I wouldn't even look at a music shop. When you invest in a custom bass you're investing in the luthier and getting that personal service you will never get from even the most enthusiastic salesperson. It's like the difference between M&S and Saville Row.[/quote]

Of course it may be that M&S suits some people better, for all sorts of reasons. No-one is going to duplicate my 72 Rick 4001, or surpass it in terms of that unique thing that it brings to the table, but they can provide something that maybe fits/works better in other ways. Having said that, I know of many people who've gone the custom route only to end up back with a Fender/Musicman/insert brand, and simply because they actually prefer that bass. Horses for courses really...

[BigRedX]

Custom instruments are for those who after trying all the easily available 'off-the-peg' designs still want something more.

I own 10 basses and 3 guitars that would possibly count as custom instruments (small-volume, individually crafted) although only 5 of those were actually made for me. For me it's partly the individuality. I would like to think that the music I write and play is slightly different to the norm and I want to play it on an instrument that reflects this, and partly because no one mass-produced instrument fulfils all that I want technically from a guitar or bass.

I need an instrument to deliver in all aspects: sounds, playability and looks, and TBH I don't want to be seen playing the same bass as everyone else, and also what I want from my instruments isn't necessarily what anyone else wants.

Picking a luthier to build you bass, you need someone who has the understanding, expertise and willingness to make the instrument to you want, and can guide you in those aspects where you're not so sure exactly what you need to achieve the right instrument for you.

In the case of my Gus bass. I wanted a Gus. I think they look great, and if you like that, then Simon Farmer is the only person to make the instrument for you. I met up with him in the days when he was still exhibiting at Music Live and the LGS, played the instruments he had on display and found that they played and sounded as least as good as they look. We then worked out the spec of my bass using his demo models as a reference and he built me this:



The Sei was a little more complicated. I was looking for a fretless and I wanted extended upper neck access amongst other things, so I spent a good few months looking at every bass luthier web site, for someone who was already building something that matched my ideal. I t turns out that there were quite a few with suitable specs but only one of them was made in this country, and at the time I wasn't quite ready to commit to a build from a luthier outside the UK. Martin was able to take what I knew I wanted in a bass; shape, feel, sound, looks and fill in the missing gaps to produce a completely brilliant instrument:



Custom instruments aren't for everyone. Plenty will be completely happy with something less expensive, and more easily obtainable, but for those who find that the standard fare doesn't give them what they want then the custom option is the one.

[LukeFRC]

I have to admit before finding basschat the whole custom bass thing was new to me.
I think it makes sense tottally from Outtoplayjazz's viewpoint, as a pro you want the right tool that will do what you want it to. Whether that be a decent hammer, a good espresso machine or a good bass. Depends on your trade.

I also get it from the more 'hobby' bassplayers viewpoint. Before you flame me Ill explain.
My old flatmate was trained and worked in high end studios and audio type stuff in the states. He was taught that most manufacturers have 3 basic ranges. The budget range. For thoes learning. Stripped down and cheap.
The pro range. Has all the things the professionals want and need. Simple effective and expensive.
The extra-pro range. The range that has lots of extras which have no difference in application to the pro but lots of 'extra' features which make it more expensive, and then from a certain point of view 'better'. A certain group of non or semi professionals will want to have the best and will spend extra for these features.

In basses you have the budget ranges and brands. You then have the Pro level stuff, stuff you could quite happily record and play with if it was your day job. Fender, musicman, warwick.... whoever
Then as I see you have a lot of stuff going for silly money. For example if a redwood tree falls in water for a bit and isthen made into a bass it is obviously good. Or some of the stuff you see at 4k plus...

I think if you are going for the 'extra-pro' range (and there nout wrong with that) then bypassing the expensive imported brands and getting something custom made makes total sense, for cheaper (than even the 'pro' range sometimes) you get something that is so exclusive and 'yours'.

[7string]

The usual disclaimer first. Just my opinions etc, etc...

For me, the decision to go custom was easy as there aren't too many 7's and 9's about. I think it's far more difficult if you want a 4, 5 or 6 as there are some great off-the-shelf basses that you can grab.

By 2006 and I'd been playing the Conklin GT7 for a few years and really liked playing 7 strings. When the chance came to go for a custom bass, my choices were pretty limited. I'd played Overwaters, but they just felt big and cumbersome. I could have ordered from the USA, but that seemed a bit risky, especially when I could order a 7 string from the makers of the finest bass I'd ever played.

I'd known about Sei basses for years, had played a couple and the experience of playing a fretless Sei 6 had left this indelible mark in my memory. It was effortless to play, the shape looked great and both the attention to detail and the quality of the work was second to none. So I sent an e-mail and visited The Gallery when I was visiting my parents down south. I ironed out a spec with the genial and unflappable Martin Petersen and I was on the build list. Martin really is a top guy, always taking in what I wanted and making suggestions along the way.

The Sei is an amazing bass and I was quite emotional when I went down to Sei HQ to bring it home. One of my life's ambitions had been fulfilled.

[quote name='henry norton' post='400467' date='Feb 4 2009, 09:52 PM']It's like the difference between M&S and Saville Row.[/quote]

...and that's what I said in the "My Guitar is" article that I wrote and was published in Guitarist magazine It's a great bass to play and I'm very proud to be a Sei owner.



When I decided I wanted a 9 string, the choice was even more limited. A Sei 9 would have been my first choice, but I had a couple of problems. Firstly, a Sei 9 doesn't exist (although there is one being built now but that goes up from low B and not F#) and I don't really want to be a guinea pig. It's not that I believed that he wouldn't produce a spectacular instrument, but my thinking was that maybe there would be things he would improve next time around. For me, there would be no next time. Also, with the 20% rise in the price of Sei basses (which was made after I got my Sei) it was out of the question from a cost perspective anyway.

What wasn't out of the question was ordering from the USA. When the £/$ rate was high (ah the good old days) I could get hold of a 9 from a number of luthiers without a problem. More importantly, those guys [b]have experience[/b] of making 9's and as I've mentioned already I really didn't want to be a guinea pig for someone who hadn't built one before.

So I fired off some e-mails and received some encouraging replies. Things were looking good for a USA build.

Then I found out that Alan at ACG was building a 9, so I asked him about it. It was a 9 from a low F#, all the sourcing of parts and strings had been done and I it was coming along quite nicely. Long story short, a load of e-mails went back and forth before I spent a while deciding whether to go Stateside or not.

As I was writing down all the pros and cons, things seemed to weigh in favour of ACG. Experience of building 9's, a track record of building fine basses, great design, bespoke pickups and electronics and no problem sourcing parts.

All of these elements wouldn't count for nothing if Alan (like Martin) wasn't a great guy to deal with.

So I e-mailed confirming I wanted him to build the 9 and the results speak for themselves. The ACG 9 is an awesome instrument. Honestly, I really couldn't be happier with every aspect of it.




OK, so I've gone on a bit but it's the blend of talent, design and communication which wins my business. It can be the most wonderful bass in the world, but if the luthier is a pain to deal with, doesn't answer e-mails and is generally difficult, I won't order one. Conversely, the builder can be the nicest guy in the world, but if the quality of work isn't there then that doesn't work either.

[bass_ferret]

Some interesting points here. If you want more than 6 strings then your choice is limited as a lot of builders just wont do it. Maybe they think its a feak show? Rob Green is not going to get a 7 string graphite neck made for the few he is going to sell.

Maybe my GB's dont look like what they cost, but trust me they play and sound like it. What's important at the end of the day is what determines our choices.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='400602' date='Feb 5 2009, 01:10 AM']Maybe my GB's dont look like what they cost[/quote]

Good!

The "difference between M&S and Saville Row" analogy isn't quite right, because most people who go to a tailor for a suit will get a very well-fitted, non-flashy suit. Whereas most people who buy a custom bass go completely the opposite way and end up with something heinously graphic.

And frankly - and I'm not picking on anybody here because I've never met any of you and I'm sorry if the generalisation upsets anyone, but - frankly it's often total anoraks who buy these basses, so you end up with a "cocktail dress" bass on a "train spotter" bassist.

Ewww.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='7string' post='400586' date='Feb 5 2009, 12:36 AM']I don't really want to be a guinea pig. It's not that I believed that he wouldn't produce a spectacular instrument, but my thinking was that maybe there would be things he would improve next time around. For me, there would be no next time. Also, with the 20% rise in the price of Sei basses (which was made after I got my Sei) it was out of the question from a cost perspective anyway.[/quote]
Couldn't agree more, this is what prompted me to go with Mr Shuker rather than a couple of other luthiers who expected me to fund their learning curve.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='400626' date='Feb 5 2009, 04:58 AM']The "difference between M&S and Saville Row" analogy isn't quite right, because most people who go to a tailor for a suit will get a very well-fitted, non-flashy suit. Whereas most people who buy a custom bass go completely the opposite way and end up with something heinously graphic.

And frankly - and I'm not picking on anybody here because I've never met any of you and I'm sorry if the generalisation upsets anyone, but - frankly it's often total anoraks who buy these basses, so you end up with a "cocktail dress" bass on a "train spotter" bassist.[/quote]
You're making a lot of generalisations there. Just look at the build diaries thread and you'll see a lot of positive comments on those 'heinously graphic' instruments.

[Noisyjon]

My conundrum was this - I wanted a P bass neck on a Jazz bass body.
A Fender Custom Shop quote for it made my eyes water, so I started looking at the different options.
From research & discussions I boiled it down to getting one made for me in the end.
The selling point was that Mr.Shuker would make me exactly what I wanted and for a good price.
I would highly recommend looking into the custom made route as an option for your new bass, and likewise would highly recommend Jon Shuker.

[Toasted]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='400244' date='Feb 4 2009, 05:59 PM']A related question: Do those of you with really expensive basses actually gig them? I don't think I'd want to take a bass worth £1000+ out to a pub gig.[/quote]

Yes, of course!

If I didn't it'd be like having a beautiful girlfriend and not, well, you know. . . .

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='Toasted' post='400692' date='Feb 5 2009, 09:32 AM']If I didn't it'd be like having a beautiful girlfriend and not, well, you know. . . . [/quote]

...taking her to ropey pubs?

[Toasted]

We're on the same page.

[henry norton]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='400626' date='Feb 5 2009, 05:58 AM']Good!

The "difference between M&S and Saville Row" analogy isn't quite right, because most people who go to a tailor for a suit will get a very well-fitted, non-flashy suit. Whereas most people who buy a custom bass go completely the opposite way and end up with something heinously graphic.

And frankly - and I'm not picking on anybody here because I've never met any of you and I'm sorry if the generalisation upsets anyone, but - frankly it's often total anoraks who buy these basses, so you end up with a "cocktail dress" bass on a "train spotter" bassist.

Ewww.[/quote]

You're focussing on the wrong aspect of my 'suit analogy'. If you wanted a gaudy suit in a garish and very expensive fabric then I'm sure you could get one made just how you want it on Saville Row. The point was just that, you get it made for you and no one else. You're right, alot of custom made basses do seem over the top but I think for alot of luthiers, the woodwork side is their only outlet, the only way to show how skilled and creative they are. That's why basses like GB and Wal are/were exceptional, because they design the whole instrument, body, neck, bridge in some cases, pickups and electronics. The showcase becomes the sound rather than the choice of wood.

[thisnameistaken]

But the design of a Wal is still understated. Yes sometimes people put "look-at-me" tops on them, but that's the choice of the customer. It seems it's more the bad taste of the customer than the ego of the luthier.

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='400244' date='Feb 4 2009, 05:59 PM']A related question: Do those of you with really expensive basses actually gig them? I don't think I'd want to take a bass worth £1000+ out to a pub gig.[/quote]

I've had custom basses for years, my first really good bass was a Jaydee, I got that when I was about 19 I guess.That was followed by another Jaydee, then a Wal 5 string, and now I use Sei basses.

I've always gigged them, that's what they're for, but I'm really careful with them. When I was playing the Jaydees the band I was in used to use a guy called Carl Brennan as security, he was massive, he played American football, I used to buy his beer all night just as long as he watched my basses for me and kept people away from them.

The places I play nowadays are far more elegant, I still sometimes get people asking if they can have a go, I politely say no, and my brother is generally around, he comes to most gigs to carry stuff, which is handy 'cos he looks nothing like me, I'm 6ft and weigh about 10 stone, he's 5ft 6", weighs about 15 stone and is a black belt 3rd dan at karate.

I chose Martin Petersen to build my basses quite simply because he is the best in the UK/Europe.

[mcgraham]

I chose Wood&tronics for a number of reasons.

In short, I wanted a detailed sounding bass. Something clear, clean, articulate, crisp. Something that was almost 'acoustic' like in its sound. I wanted something that had additional range, both along the neck (frets) and across it (strings). I knew (more or less) the 'base' sound I wanted, and the feature set I was after. I was effectively limited by my present instrument and I was starting to bump up against those limiting barriers more and more. I'd outgrown my previous bass. Music is a major passion in my life, I could afford it, and I live frugally. So it wasn't a hard decision to make.

Many factors make up a custom, and I approached choosing my luthier with these points in mind:
[b]Sound [/b]- the Spectrum @ Bass Direct has an immensely detailed sound. So much so I couldn't imagine using it in a band context. But at least I knew that if I wanted the above qualities in a bass, they could deliver it in bucketloads.
[b]Feel [/b]- well constructed basses often feel chunky, clumsy, unwieldy. More arty basses often feel flimsy, less sturdy, fragile. W&T basses felt super sturdy, but oozed finesse and class. They felt like they were meant to be played and not fought.
[b]Aesthetic [/b]- I love single cuts.
[b]Features [/b]- they had a massive array of features that I could choose from. They would allow me to get the additional range and final tweak towards getting the ideal feel that I needed.
[b]Cost [/b]- for what they offered, no-one came close. For what they offered at the price they offered it, I couldn't say no.

And now I have my ultimate bass. The others will/may end up on the chopping block in the future, but I will always keep at least one as a back up.

Why should someone go custom? Because you can't get what you want from an off the shelf bass, even if it was modified. That's my opinion.

Mark

[Born 2B Mild]

This has been a really good thread. I've learned more about custom builds for sure. Before I joined BC I was aware of Overwater but not much else in the luthier world. I want to commission a custom bass eventually, but I'm still settling the spec in my own mind, and am likely to be doing that for a while yet.

Jim Fleeting's planned talk (“from design to realisation”) at the Yorkshire Bash is likely to be well attended, me thinks!

[greyparrot]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='400206' date='Feb 4 2009, 05:32 PM']Because Fender doesn't make basses that look like a lottery winner's dining table?[/quote]



They do custom shop as does Spector take a look at mine in the for sale section!

[greyparrot]

I did have a Zoot (boudica) made once. Cost £1250 - It was a compleate joke. Looked great, sounded great then about 2 months later, the frets started to poke out of the profile of the neck,(both sides) cut my hand!, then the electronice went wrong. And then the neck twisted. On many occations i tried to have it repaired by Mike only to get excuses back. In the end he offered me £400 for a bass that was unplayable. I being fed up, took it, and part exed it for a six string indi which i had for a long while, fantastic bass. Half the price but 10 times better. Not sure if the bass (boudica) i had was a bad un or not, but sorry Mike, your a nice chap, but that bass he made for me was a right f..k up. would not touch one again. Was about 5 years ago now. Bad exp.

[GreeneKing]

[quote]I chose Martin Petersen to build my basses quite simply because he is the best in the UK/Europe.[/quote]

Interesting statement. I feel challenged by it but I'm saying nothing

[Spoombung]

The only reason I'd go to a luthier was is if I couldn't see what I wanted in the guitar shop.

My experience of them is minimal: never played an Overwater, never played a Shuker, never played an ACG, never played a RIM, never played a GB. So I wouldn't know who's best. I just picked the nearest one location-wise for my custom build.

What I don't really understand is when people spend a lot of money on hand-made jazz basses, for instance - when numerous examples of high quality are easily obtainable for much cheaper prices in the shops.

[Spoombung]

[quote name='greyparrot' post='401237' date='Feb 5 2009, 04:46 PM']I did have a Zoot (boudica) made once. Cost £1250 - It was a compleate joke. Looked great, sounded great then about 2 months later, the frets started to poke out of the profile of the neck,(both sides) cut my hand!, then the electronice went wrong. And then the neck twisted. On many occations i tried to have it repaired by Mike only to get excuses back. In the end he offered me £400 for a bass that was unplayable. I being fed up, took it, and part exed it for a six string indi which i had for a long while, fantastic bass. Half the price but 10 times better. Not sure if the bass (boudica) i had was a bad un or not, but sorry Mike, your a nice chap, but that bass he made for me was a right f..k up. would not touch one again. Was about 5 years ago now. Bad exp.[/quote]

That story worries me, somewhat.

[greyparrot]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='401267' date='Feb 5 2009, 05:09 PM']That story worries me, somewhat.[/quote]



Why?