Class D power amps

[f1artwork]

Not enjoying my PF-500 and 210 HE anymore, thinking of getting a Barefaced cab and GSS baby sumo to use with my Tech21 VT pre amp. Any options on this set up?

[jrixn1]

I'd also consider a powered PA speaker like an RCF, QSC, Yamaha.

There's a huge thread here if you have a free day to browse through it... https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/315455-interesting-frfr-story/
 

[Dan Dare]

Should work fine. Depending on the BF cab, I'd compare the Sumo with the baby Sumo, if you think you might need more power.

[Sibob]

Other options:

https://www.grbass.com/amps/pure-amp-800/ - ICE power module, standard in Bergantino, Genz Benz etc etc. 800 watts

https://www.juleamps.com/shop/viewitem.php?productid=60 - waiting list apparently, Hypex power module. 500 watts

Both are essentially just power-amps, so any preamp in front should do the job, although both can take a bass directly to it.

Si

Edited February 11, 2020 by Sibob

[CamdenRob]

I recently got a Baby Sumo to pair with my One10s. It’s awesome and fits in my gigbag. I received the following advice regarding preamp pairings when I emailed GSS.

”The Baby Sumo requires a preamp with at least +15dB of gain and an output impedance smaller than 10 K Ohm.

Its input is unbalanced.

There are a number of suitable preamp options. Here is a quick test video we did with some of the most popular pedal format preamps on the market:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6AFO-h1xC4&list=PLDrCd9bBoihp3FaPl9igKbYMGOvPwCVam&index=3

Anything from a $50 Mooer Graphic B eq pedal with gain or a One control Sonic Silver Peg, or Sadowsky SPB 2, or a more feature-rich Fishman Platinum Pro... will work fine.

If you want to get the very best out of the Baby Sumo, you can also use a high end studio grade preamp such as the Avalon U5.”

I bought a Fishman platinum pro which whilst it sounded awesome, with only +12db of output boost wasn’t loud enough. I needed the Baby Sumo on almost full volume to keep up with the band. I’ve since bought an MXR clean boost with +20db of boost and it’s fine now. Easily loud enough to keep up with a full band, with bags of power to spare. I just go from the bass, straight into the boost pedal, into the baby sumo  

My entire set up is now in a gigbag on my back and with a One10 in each hand. I can now get my rig to the gig on public transport 👍 

[4000]

17 hours ago, f1artwork said:

Not enjoying my PF-500 and 210 HE anymore, thinking of getting a Barefaced cab and GSS baby sumo to use with my Tech21 VT pre amp. Any options on this set up?

I cut out the middle man and got 2 x Tech21 VT500 heads (main & spare). I pair them with one or two BF One10s as required. I can also go stereo if I’m feeling that way inclined.

[Passinwind]

On 11/02/2020 at 04:36, Sibob said:

Other options:

https://www.grbass.com/amps/pure-amp-800/ - ICE power module, standard in Bergantino, Genz Benz etc etc. 800 watts

https://www.juleamps.com/shop/viewitem.php?productid=60 - waiting list apparently, Hypex power module. 500 watts

Both are essentially just power-amps, so any preamp in front should do the job, although both can take a bass directly to it.

Si

Si,

Did you try the Jule Simone 500 we had in the Marco Bass booth at NAMM this year? I didn't get to play through it much (or anything else in the booth really), but it and the matching tube preamp generated a lot of interest, for sure. The GR guys were right around the corner too, but I didn't notice if there was a Pure 800 amp there.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Passinwind

[LukeFRC]

never used- but if it's just a power amp the Bassic A900 for £475 http://w.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Bassics.html 

 

My 2p - I'ld get a bass amp head that lets me bypass the preamp with the effects loop. That way if your VT preamp fails, or you just want another sound some point, you've got it. 
 

[chris_b]

On 11/02/2020 at 06:12, f1artwork said:

Not enjoying my PF-500 and 210 HE anymore, thinking of getting a Barefaced cab and GSS baby sumo to use with my Tech21 VT pre amp. Any options on this set up?

An Aguilar TH500 works very well with all BF cabs, and makes a much simpler set up. You can run your preamp into the power section, run the preamp into the regular instrument input or just use the TH500. Lots of options.

[scalpy]

Quite interesting that two threads of a similar nature have cropped up recently. This and the ashdown pedal board amp one suggest what I've been wondering for a while, is there a market for/ the technology for a class d pedalboard amp that would fit under a board, like a regular pedal power supply? If the baby sumo fitted under a board I'd have it in a flash.

[Phil Starr]

It strikes me that you are paying a lot for a smaller box to put on a pedal board, great idea though that is. These amps are pushing £500 for a single ICE power amp. For £299 you could get a Crown PA amp with 500W stereo or up to 1500W in bridge mode. 60% of the price for twice the amp. If all you want is a power amp and don't mind the profile of a PA amp then I don't think these boutique solutions are good value.

I know John (ChienmortBB) is working on an amp to build into the Basschat V3 speaker cab maybe he could design our very own power amp. A single ICE amp module with a nice beefy supply should be relatively straightforward if you could source the boards cheaply enough.

[adamg67]

12 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

It strikes me that you are paying a lot for a smaller box to put on a pedal board, great idea though that is. These amps are pushing £500 for a single ICE power amp. For £299 you could get a Crown PA amp with 500W stereo or up to 1500W in bridge mode. 60% of the price for twice the amp. If all you want is a power amp and don't mind the profile of a PA amp then I don't think these boutique solutions are good value.

This. I'm not convinced that anything more expensive will make a difference over a decent power amp, so long as you make sure all your tone is coming from your preamp. 

12 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

I know John (ChienmortBB) is working on an amp to build into the Basschat V3 speaker cab maybe he could design our very own power amp. A single ICE amp module with a nice beefy supply should be relatively straightforward if you could source the boards cheaply enough.

Why not just give the speaker cab a 19" rack space?

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, adamg67 said:

This. I'm not convinced that anything more expensive will make a difference over a decent power amp, so long as you make sure all your tone is coming from your preamp. 

The reverse I think - @Phil Starrs idea of a PA amp would probably get more performance even at a lower price

[adamg67]

7 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

The reverse I think - @Phil Starrs idea of a PA amp would probably get more performance even at a lower price

Sorry - when I said "power amp" I meant "PA power amp", like a Crown  (had one, worked a treat).

[Phil Starr]

1 hour ago, adamg67 said:

This. I'm not convinced that anything more expensive will make a difference over a decent power amp, so long as you make sure all your tone is coming from your preamp. 

Why not just give the speaker cab a 19" rack space?

John may come back with an answer but the idea is for an all 'self build' project and he is building a complete bass amp in with a pre amp designed by Charlie (Passingwind). He's also sourced the components now I think and just needs to 'resource' the time to do the development work. Just joined a new band so that may be in short supply I did look into this possibility because I'm lazier than John but the only suitable amp I found which was comparable with buying the bits was the Behringer NX3000D. In the end for my personal use I decided on a Peavey MiniMax with a space to fit in the cab I'm designing at the moment.

Those Crown XLS PA amps look to be great for this sort of use.

[adamg67]

1 minute ago, Phil Starr said:

John may come back with an answer but the idea is for an all 'self build' project and he is building a complete bass amp in with a pre amp designed by Charlie (Passingwind). He's also sourced the components now I think and just needs to 'resource' the time to do the development work. Just joined a new band so that may be in short supply I did look into this possibility because I'm lazier than John but the only suitable amp I found which was comparable with buying the bits was the Behringer NX3000D. In the end for my personal use I decided on a Peavey MiniMax with a space to fit in the cab I'm designing at the moment.

Those Crown XLS PA amps look to be great for this sort of use.

My communication skills are not what they should be today I read it as the design of the cab being tweaked to fit an amp, rather than just one cab.

I'll get me coat...

[Passinwind]

23 hours ago, scalpy said:

Quite interesting that two threads of a similar nature have cropped up recently. This and the ashdown pedal board amp one suggest what I've been wondering for a while, is there a market for/ the technology for a class d pedalboard amp that would fit under a board, like a regular pedal power supply? If the baby sumo fitted under a board I'd have it in a flash.

At NAMM I saw a 100 watt power amp that fits on the end cap of a very slick modular pedalboard system. I let a number of bass players know about it and asked them to go pitch the manufacturer on doing a bass oriented one as well, which to me means 300 watts at minimum. That's also probably about the most power we might expect to fit in your scenario, and as a semi-pro builder I'd want about 8 by 6 by 3 inches for a proper enclosure that would meet safety and EMC certifications. An actual pro could do better than that though, I'm sure. So, how much space is there under your pedalboard, exactly?  And do you see a market for a few thousand sales a year over several years, minimum?

Speaking of which, a lot of these small-ish boutique power amps are not strictly legal in the US at this time. I see that as potentially playing with fire, both literally and figuratively. YMMV. Over here there's a loophole for not-for-sale test builds, but I'm still generally pretty careful about who I let try my various DIY bass amp and power amp builds out on stage.

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Passinwind

[scalpy]

4 hours ago, Passinwind said:

At NAMM I saw a 100 watt power amp that fits on the end cap of a very slick modular pedalboard system. I let a number of bass players know about it and asked them to go pitch the manufacturer on doing a bass oriented one as well, which to me means 300 watts at minimum. That's also probably about the most power we might expect to fit in your scenario, and as a semi-pro builder I'd want about 8 by 6 by 3 inches for a proper enclosure that would meet safety and EMC certifications. An actual pro could do better than that though, I'm sure. So, how much space is there under your pedalboard, exactly?  And do you see a market for a few thousand sales a year over several years, minimum?

Speaking of which, a lot of these small-ish boutique power amps are not strictly legal in the US at this time. I see that as potentially playing with fire, both literally and figuratively. YMMV. Over here there's a loophole for not-for-sale test builds, but I'm still generally pretty careful about who I let try my various DIY bass amp and power amp builds out on stage.

 

Thanks for your reply. I’m not an engineer and I’m not in the manufacturing business. I can only imagine the hurdles producing a 300w to those specs. Is there a market? I do wonder who buys all the preamp pedals that are available, not to mention the array of modelling tech out there now. The pitch would be the solution I’m looking for. I do a lot of rehearsals in different places, lots of pit work and some bigger gigs too. I don’t want a combo- very often my amp is crammed behind another player or cymbal stand, I can’t adjust it easily. I want to choose my micro cab or bigger cab, depending on the gig, and I want to be able to carry it all in one trip and use one plug! I bet I'm not the only one!

[No lust in Jazz]

On ‎11‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 06:12, f1artwork said:

Not enjoying my PF-500 and 210 HE anymore, thinking of getting a Barefaced cab and GSS baby sumo to use with my Tech21 VT pre amp. Any options on this set up?

Quilter Bass Block and a BF 1x12" Cab - single handed lift.

I've been down the route of power amps and preamps and found it expensive and tiresome. When I compared a pedal into a power amp (Demeter) and the power section of a Mark Bass LM3 I couldn't detect a difference. 

I add a preamp in front of the QBB that either warms things up or takes it 'properly naughtly' - mostly its just flat

But its a path that many take and are happy with

[Radchenko]

Hello, do you think Gss baby sumo have enough power, similar to head amps like mesa d800, Darkglass 900..?

Thank you.

[Dan Dare]

10 hours ago, Radchenko said:

Hello, do you think Gss baby sumo have enough power, similar to head amps like mesa d800, Darkglass 900..?

Thank you.

No. Read the specs.

[BassmanPaul]

My gigging amp is a 2000W capable stereo Class D power amp. On each channel I run one Acme B2 three way 4Ω cabinet. The cabinets are stacked on their ends for a vertical 4x10. They sound sublime and each cabinet gets around 500W. If I need more than that I stack my second pair of B2 cabinet along side, again one per channel, the power amp is happy with 2Ω loads,

For those that do not know about the Acme brand the B2 is a 2x10 with midrange and tweeter drivers.

 

I should mention the whole shebang is driven by a two channel full tube/valve preamp of my own design and build. As for weight the pre-amp and power anp reside in a four space SKB rack case. With the front and back covers in place I can pick it up just using two fingers.

[scalpy]

21 minutes ago, BassmanPaul said:

My gigging amp is a 2000W capable stereo Class D power amp. On each channel I run one Acme B2 three way 4Ω cabinet. The cabinets are stacked on their ends for a vertical 4x10. They sound sublime and each cabinet gets around 500W. If I need more than that I stack my second pair of B2 cabinet along side, again one per channel, the power amp is happy with 2Ω loads,

For those that do not know about the Acme brand the B2 is a 2x10 with midrange and tweeter drivers.

 

I should mention the whole shebang is driven by a two channel full tube/valve preamp of my own design and build. As for weight the pre-amp and power anp reside in a four space SKB rack case. With the front and back covers in place I can pick it up just using two fingers.

Sounds great! What’s the power amp please? And pictures, or it didn’t happen!

[BassmanPaul]

I'm not too much into art! LOL The power amp is made by a company called Carvin. I have a bunch of their products including three superb six string basses.They also provide the power for my three PA systems.