Becos ultimate compressor

[51m0n]

Oh my!

https://becosfx.com/product/compiq-twain-dual-band-stacked-pro-compressor-for-bass-and-guitar/

That is just, awesome!!

[Cuzzie]

Looks very awesome

[lee650]

Wow!! Very cool 😊

[Jonse]

That many knobs makes me nervous. 

[Daz39]

Wow: they really went Ultra on the Stella. That’s a whole heap of compression twiddlyness!

[51m0n]

It might take a couple of minutes fiddling to figure it out yes 🤪🤩

[Lozz196]

18 hours ago, Jonse said:

That many knobs makes me nervous. 

Nearly as many as on a flight deck on a jumbo jet

[Al Krow]

It's great having the possibility of a comp and limiter on the same pedal, I can only think of one other that offers that. The only issue is that many folk typically would have a have a comp at the start of their signal chain and the limiter at the end. 

(Apologies @krispnthat this comment is not backed-up by anything other than home use, which obviously immediately renders it value-less 😉 ) 

[clauster]

Becos are really providing a great range of compressors.  

[krispn]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

It's great having the possibility of a comp and limiter on the same pedal, I can only think of one other that offers that. The only issue is that many folk typically would have a have a comp at the start of their signal chain and the limiter at the end. 

(Apologies @krispnthat this comment is not backed-up by anything other than home use, which obviously immediately renders it value-less 😉 ) 

If that’s what you do - comp/limiter at the start/end of the signal chain - then I’m sure you have good reason to but at home volumes it strikes me as more pointless than valueless but if you need a good strong signal to feed pedals etc.

When you claim “many folk typically would have a comp at the start... limiter at the end” who are you talking about? When the discussion of using a single compressor causes waves of consternation I’d imagine this boots and braces set up might be just as divisive especially if so few of us run filters, synths etc.

Its not an uncommon studio practice to use two comps working together adding a little bit of compression here and there in the signal chain, so I get the concept and the becos could be useful for a multi band comp set up.

 

[51m0n]

I would always advocate many stages of compression each doing less than you can notice for specific areas of the entire envelope of a sound.

 

Especially a complex sound (mixed types of envelope).

 

Super especially if you want the end result to be ultra transparent....

[51m0n]

On 15/02/2020 at 19:05, Jonse said:

That many knobs makes me nervous. 

Ooh matron!

[GisserD]

On 15/02/2020 at 16:14, 51m0n said:

Oh my!

https://becosfx.com/product/compiq-twain-dual-band-stacked-pro-compressor-for-bass-and-guitar/

That is just, awesome!!

That thing is a knob twiddlers delight. Very interesting.

[Al Krow]

17 hours ago, 51m0n said:

I would always advocate many stages of compression each doing less than you can notice for specific areas of the entire envelope of a sound.

Especially a complex sound (mixed types of envelope).

Super especially if you want the end result to be ultra transparent....

So I guess an alternative to this mega one-stop-shop pedal would be the Stella on the front end for compression duties and the simpler compact Mini at the back end for limiter duties to protect against e.g. unwanted filter and synth spikes. (I take krispns point about the lack of need for a limiter in a lower vol home environment, but you do obviously then have the desired gig set up covered off also, should you want it).

Two pedals = positional flexibility allowing staged compression vs the convenience of everything under one bonnet and with a slightly lower overall price. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Al Krow

[51m0n]

Yeah, but a comp even set really fast isn't a true limiter.

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, 51m0n said:

Yeah, but a comp even set really fast isn't a true limiter.

Interesting. I keep getting told by the "usual crowd" that a limiter (a classic example being the Keeley Bassist) is a comp. So please do elaborate! 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Interesting. I keep getting told by the "usual crowd" that a limiter (a classic example being the Keeley Bassist) is a comp. So please do elaborate! 

@51m0n is way more erudite than me, but my simplistic view is that Compression is a spectrum where at the extreme end (as in super very fast) it becomes a limiter. The reverse journey is not applicable so a pure limiter (one that only deals in super fast ratios) is not a compressor.

With compression there is a volume adjustment of the signal to allow an evenness to the sound, done well, the dynamics are not harmed, compressed heavily the sound become squashed like pressing a flower in a book.

Limiter is your brick wall, or Gandalf - ‘You shall not pass!’

You set a dB limit and it doesn’t let anything louder than that past it, but it does not adjust the volume of anything beneath it. I suppose you could think of a heavy handed drummer who likes to really smash the snare on occasion, limiting its volume of sound to the rest of it’s surroundings allows expression and the snare however it’s set up to ring true, rather than a squished snare sound which may not be pleasing to the ear. They can then bash away to their hearts content. You can vary where your wall is, but it’s different to compression as it’s stopping sound rather bringing sound gently into line, but as said before it’s the far end of the one way street spectrum, limiting is not back compatible.

Compression is coercion and negotiation, Limiting is a barricade.

Its a simplistic view, happy to be called wrong, or very wrong if I am so.

[51m0n]

Nah its more simple than all of that really.

The circuits must be different to truly be a limiter vs a compressor.

Its all about how the device measures the input level. A compressor will average the input level over a (sometimes very) short time so an RMS over a few milliseconds (although longer in some circuits ie opto just because it takes time to light up the element).

So if your compressor measures level as an average of the level over the last n milliseconds it can never truly limit the front edge of a transient, because that is not the point in time when the average level over time has actually changed to exceed your threshold.

A true limiter circuit is designed to measure level in a far more instantaneous way, obviously there is always some delay but an 1176 can have attack times in micro seconds only because it is measuring the input level super quickly. An La2a cant possibly be as fast, but then it isnt a limiter at all.

 

[51m0n]

Nah its more simple than all of that really.

The circuits must be different to truly be a limiter vs a compressor.

Its all about how the device measures the input level. A compressor will average the input level over a (sometimes very) short time so an RMS over a few milliseconds (although longer in some circuits ie opto just because it takes time to light up the element).

So if your compressor measures level as an average of the level over the last n milliseconds it can never truly limit the front edge of a transient, because that is not the point in time when the average level over time has actually changed to exceed your threshold.

A true limiter circuit is designed to measure level in a far more instantaneous way, obviously there is always some delay but an 1176 can have attack times in micro seconds only because it is measuring the input level super quickly. An La2a cant possibly be as fast, but then it isnt a limiter at all.

 

[51m0n]

Even the fastest attack setting on a compressor circuit is not truly a limiter.

Likewise a slow attack setting on a limiter does not behave quite like a compressor.

[Al Krow]

Cheers gents.

@51m0n so would you regard the Keeley Bassist as being a true limiter and not a compressor?

PS if a point is worth making, it's probably worth repeating 😁

[51m0n]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Cheers gents.

@51m0n so would you regard the Keeley Bassist as being a true limiter and not a compressor?

PS if a point is worth making, it's probably worth repeating 😁

From the Keeley page:-
With feed forward compressors that use this type of true-RMS detector you use a single time constant parameter

So we have no idea how long that detector is averaging over. In short I cant answer you with a simple yes/no,but its using a chip closely related to the on in the Becos. Probably not a 'true' limiter circuit then.

Can you set it up to behave like a limiter with a slower attack time though, well no, you dont have an attack control so not at all.

[Al Krow]

Ok cheers Si. Sounds like it's not going to do any better a job at limiting than the Becos then, and the Becos has much more functionality. 

[krispn]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

PS if a point is worth making, it's probably worth repeating 😁

Still keen to know who the “many folk typically would have a comp at the start... limiter at the end” are you were talking about?

[Al Krow]

38 minutes ago, krispn said:

Still keen to know who the “many folk typically would have a comp at the start... limiter at the end” are you were talking about?

It was a generic point as to the common prefs for location of said pedals for many folk on BC based on their posts.

The key point I was making is given the dual band nature of this mega-Becos it would potentially allow both functions under one bonnet, but it can't be in two places at once: it's not a quantum pedal.