Disappearing Low E

[Guest MoJo]

I’ve experienced this on P-basses before and now again on my latest acquisition, a Bruce Thomas Profile Bass. 
When playing a low, open E with the band, it rapidly disappears into nothingness and playing the open E and the E on the seventh fret of the A string, sound like the same note, not two notes an octave apart. It’s almost as if the fundamental isn’t strong enough. Could it be due to the fact that the Profile bass has quite a light body and neck? Strangely my 70’s MIJ Camel Journey Bass doesn’t suffer with the same issue. Any ideas?

Edited February 16, 2020 by MoJo

[wateroftyne]

IMO this is partly interaction between wood and body, and it’s something that can make or break a bass. I guess experimenting with the setup, heavier bridge etc. could help, but some basses just have a this as a baked-in weakness. 

Edited February 16, 2020 by wateroftyne

[Guest MoJo]

1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

IMO this is partly interaction between wood and body, and it’s something that can make or break a bass. I guess experimenting with the setup, heavier bridge etc. could help, but some basses just have a this as a baked-in weakness. 

I hope not as the bass is superb otherwise. You could be on the right track though. My BB425 which is essentially a P-J and is much heavier in it’s construction, doesn’t suffer with this phenomenon 

[itu]

I would start by tightening every screw and changing strings. There may be a defective string, or neck/bridge/saddle/something is loose.

[ezbass]

7 minutes ago, itu said:

I would start by tightening every screw and changing strings. There may be a defective string, or neck/bridge/saddle/something is loose.

Definitely ^ as a starting point.

If that doesn’t locate a fault, try adding some mass to the headstock like a guitar capo if you have one, or any small clamp. If that makes a difference you could buy one of these https://www.thomann.de/gb/fat_finger_guitar_chrome.htm for a more specific solution.

[deepbass5]

selection of wood for construction on most mass produced basses is not conducive with good tone and sustain in my opinion. It is more by luck that some in the batch are better than others which is why it is important to always try several, not always possible in your local music store.  I will always play them acoustically If they sound good and you could practice on them like that at home then they will sound good plugged in.

You could spend some money on it but having been there, I feel you will end up passing it on later with the extra investment you have installed.

Things I have found to work - Badass bridge

- check bridge saddle screws are evenly tensioned ( not on one screw and leaning on the next saddle)

- Check and tighten neck joint bolts

- action and set up is correct along with string choice

good luck with sorting the issues your local guitar tech maybe the best route before spending money 

 

[BigRedX]

It might be worth checking the neck joint. One trick is to slacken off the strings and then release the neck bolts by half a turn each so there is just the slightest amount of play in the joint. Then tighten the strings back up to pitch. Once you have done that retighten the neck bolts. This procedure uses the tension in the strings to pull the neck is tightly as it will go into the pocket. 

If this doesn’t work then try adding more mass at the headstock or bridge. 

[Guest MoJo]

Ironically, the song that shows the issue at it’s worst, in our set, is when we play Pump it Up by Elvis Costello and the Attractions where, after the second chorus, Bruce hits the open E and lets it ring for four bars. My E seems to die out in the first bar. Oddly, if I fret the F at the first fret, it rings out for ages. Just the open E that’s a problem 

[ezbass]

1 minute ago, MoJo said:

 Oddly, if I fret the F at the first fret, it rings out for ages. Just the open E that’s a problem 

Something wrong with the nut perhaps?

[Guest MoJo]

12 minutes ago, ezbass said:

Something wrong with the nut perhaps?

Maybe. I’ve had it on other P-basses, yet the Yamaha BB’s I’ve owned in the past don’t do it. I think I’ll check everything is tight and put some new strings on first

[Crawford13]

One question, is this only happening when playing with a band? If it is, the problem is quite possibly solved with EQ, however if it is always happening it may be an issue with the bass. 
 

I used to have this issue with a bass I had when it was tuned to Drop D, I could hear everything except the low D, it was basically drowned out by the band.

For reference the frequency of a  low E in standard tuning is around 41 Hz, try boosting the lows in your amp.

 

[Reggaebass]

Have you tried just trying another  E string , to eliminate whether it’s the string or not 🙂

[ezbass]

13 minutes ago, MoJo said:

I think I’ll check everything is tight and put some new strings on first

Good thinking. Make sure (I'm sure you are, teaching grandma to suck eggs and all that, but just want to cover everything) that there's enough downward pressure on the nut, it could be that the headstock isn't creating as much break angle as it could/should.

[Guest MoJo]

1 hour ago, Crawford13 said:

One question, is this only happening when playing with a band?.

Yes, it is

[Crawford13]

21 minutes ago, MoJo said:

Yes, it is

I would definitely try boosting your lows, if you have an EQ pedal around the 40Hz mark might help.

[miles'tone]

Forgive this observation of mine as I don't wish it to be taken the wrong way. 

I've noticed that on the BT Profile basses the pole pieces of the pickups are routed out of alignment. All the pictures of different basses online show the strings passing over just one of the pole pieces rather than between the two per string. I imagine that the thinner strings may function ok but I expect the larger E string may be moving out of the magnetic range of the one pole piece  it has under it. 

I wanted a Profile Bass myself, REALLY wanted one, but I couldn't bring myself to spend £500 on a bass that I'd have to buy a custom pickguard for with correct pickup routing and have to move the pickups over myself, possibly removing some wood to do it. 

Strangely, the Power and Detroit Ps don't have this issue. 

Check it out, I'm very happy to be told I'm wrong!

Again no offence intended. They are otherwise beautiful looking P basses in the best colour. ✌️

EDIT: I just checked again and it is just one side of the pickup that will be out of alignment. If the E and A are OK, the D and G will be out and vice versa.. 

Edited February 16, 2020 by miles'tone

[Guest MoJo]

32 minutes ago, miles'tone said:

Forgive this observation of mine as I don't wish it to be taken the wrong way. 

I've noticed that on the BT Profile basses the pole pieces of the pickups are routed out of alignment. All the pictures of different basses online show the strings passing over just one of the pole pieces rather than between the two per string. I imagine that the thinner strings may function ok but I expect the larger E string may be moving out of the magnetic range of the one pole piece  it has under it. 

I wanted a Profile Bass myself, REALLY wanted one, but I couldn't bring myself to spend £500 on a bass that I'd have to buy a custom pickguard for with correct pickup routing and have to move the pickups over myself, possibly removing some wood to do it. 

Strangely, the Power and Detroit Ps don't have this issue. 

Check it out, I'm very happy to be told I'm wrong!

Again no offence intended. They are otherwise beautiful looking P basses in the best colour. ✌️

EDIT: I just checked again and it is just one side of the pickup that will be out of alignment. If the E and A are OK, the D and G will be out and vice versa.. 

PM’d you

[41Hz]

You said open E dies but a fretted F rings for ages. Might be worth tuning the E string up a semitone to F and see what happens.

That would tell you if it was a resonance issue or if it was something else

[lurksalot]

Does this happen at gigs, the rehearsal room , different venues etc or does it happen in a particular environment .

even where you are standing can influence the frequencies you hear 

Daft thought is the kick drum tuned close to 41hz and influencing your sound.

If the only time the issue manifests itself is in the presence of the band , I would be surprised if the issue was with the bass 

 

[wateroftyne]

37 minutes ago, lurksalot said:

If the only time the issue manifests itself is in the presence of the band , I would be surprised if the issue was with the bass 

IME the real test of whether the bass has the issue is if it happens in the presence of the band.

It could be fine in the living room, studio, etc.

[adamg67]

9 hours ago, 41Hz said:

You said open E dies but a fretted F rings for ages. Might be worth tuning the E string up a semitone to F and see what happens.

That would tell you if it was a resonance issue or if it was something else

Now that is smart thinking.

[Guest MoJo]

2 hours ago, lurksalot said:

Does this happen at gigs, the rehearsal room , different venues etc or does it happen in a particular environment .

even where you are standing can influence the frequencies you hear 

Daft thought is the kick drum tuned close to 41hz and influencing your sound.

If the only time the issue manifests itself is in the presence of the band , I would be surprised if the issue was with the bass 

 

It only happens at when playing with the band. Strike an open E, let it ring and the fundamental disappears fairly quickly. The string continues to vibrate obviously but it's mainly the overtones so doesn't have that depth. It doesn't happen when playing with the band when I use my Yamaha BB425 or the SUB 5. It seems to be a 'Precision' thing. I've noticed it with other Precisions I've owned. My MIJ Camel Journey bass does it too, but to a lesser extent 

[Dan Dare]

When you play an open E string, you are hearing little of the fundamental. It's mostly harmonics and overtones (look at the frequency response of most drive units - few go down that low and those that do will not reproduce the note at volume). In a studio, you can do a lot to doctor the sound that you cannot do live, which is why it works on the recording. It's the laws of physics, Jim.