Leowasright Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 I'm kind of amp oriented today, due to buying a new Hartke 3500 head, and getting my old Fender Bassman 100 head back tomorrow. Pastorious was fairly famous for using and Acoustic 360 preamp with at least one 361 powered speaker cab. I believe JP Jones also used used them with Led Zeppelin in the early 70's. It was a curious arrangement, with the 360 "head " being a preamp driving a power amp (200W I believe, quite high powered for the late 60's) in the 361 speaker cab. Very forward looking, indirectly, as powered speakers are very common these days for PA. I've never seen one out there. I have to presume some measure of rarity on this old rig? Quote
Balcro Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 [quote name='Leowasright' post='402220' date='Feb 6 2009, 05:54 PM']I'm kind of amp oriented today, due to buying a new Hartke 3500 head, and getting my old Fender Bassman 100 head back tomorrow. Pastorious was fairly famous for using and Acoustic 360 preamp with at least one 361 powered speaker cab. I believe JP Jones also used used them with Led Zeppelin in the early 70's. It was a curious arrangement, with the 360 "head " being a preamp driving a power amp (200W I believe, quite high powered for the late 60's) in the 361 speaker cab. Very forward looking, indirectly, as powered speakers are very common these days for PA. I've never seen one out there. I have to presume some measure of rarity on this old rig?[/quote] They are a rarity in this country. Even in the US because of the demise of Acoustic in the early 80's, they are few and far between. However there is an enthusiastic community in the US, see this link - [url="http://unofficialacousticcontrolcorpmessageboard.yuku.com/"]http://unofficialacousticcontrolcorpmessageboard.yuku.com/[/url] for some intersting enquiries and maybe some exciting news. The brand is now owned by "Guitar Center". The 360/361 is the stuff of legend. The biggest set up I ever saw was Slade in the 70's with 4 360's all lined up in a curve. Awesome power. The amp was solid state/transistor, not valve as was the norm - probably one of the very first of its type. Balcro. Quote
yorick Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 Used one briefly in the late eighties, and the sound was phenomenal!! Quote
andy67 Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 talk to rumour6 he knows his stuff with this one! andy Quote
Mr. Foxen Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 Here is a pick of a guy down the road who taught me bass's old rig: I have a folded horn cab and valve head clearly cloned from it: There is a thread discussing it here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=28973"]Huge vintage cabs[/url] I'm looking out for a second cab to make the rig of doom, as the waves of low end pressure coming out of it are ideal for our eyeball shaking. Oh, another thread I made about it: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=38232"]Folded horns[/url] Quote
bumnote Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) Guitar centre have intoduced a fairly conventional range ie 4x10, 1x15, combos, amp heads etc,under the old acoustic banner in the states. These are all made in china and have some good reviews. A new redesigned 360 made in the usa has been in development by some of the original acoustic people for some years. The original 360 had the amp in the cabinet so you could use one preamp, and multiple cabinets. They later combined the amp and preamp as the 370 which is still sought after today. They ccost a small fortune in the day, a 360 was near on £1000 in the late 70s, and were one of the then industry standards for pro musicians. Certainly bands like Argent, Led Zep, Slade, AWB, SAHB all used to use them. IIRC they were less than 300 watt, and phenominally loud, although not so close up. I remember Jim Rodford with the Kinks said he had to use a 4x12 on stage to hear himself, while his 360 used to make peoples ears bleed in the 10th row. They had some interesting designs including the 408 cabinet, which had 2 15s facing forward, and another two facing at an angle. That must have been fun to carry up stairs. I still use a 220 head with a 406 2x15 cab, and a single 15 cab, and I have a 150b amp waiting restoration. Great amps Edited February 7, 2009 by bumnote Quote
Jarhead Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 Actually, earlier I saw two Acoustic cabs. Looks battered and beaten, but they could still work. I'm going to ask about them next time I go to that cafe. Zach Quote
bumnote Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='Jarhead' post='402828' date='Feb 7 2009, 02:44 PM']Actually, earlier I saw two Acoustic cabs. Looks battered and beaten, but they could still work. I'm going to ask about them next time I go to that cafe. Zach[/quote] Where abouts? unless you are interested Quote
Jarhead Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 [quote name='bumnote' post='402929' date='Feb 7 2009, 05:06 PM']Where abouts? unless you are interested[/quote] Haha. Its fair game mate, if you can get up to Derby. The cabs are on the top floor of The Big Blue Coffee Company. Zach Quote
Balcro Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 [quote name='Leowasright' post='402220' date='Feb 6 2009, 05:54 PM']I've never seen one out there. I have to presume some measure of rarity on this old rig?[/quote] Now see what happens when people talk Acoustic 360/361. Two people race each other to get one!! Look up some of the on-line reviews. One guy in the States, said "If anyone tries to steal it off you, shoot to kill". Another said he loved it so much he wanted to be buried alongside it!!! No need to worry, you've only got about 2 months to wait, and ............................. Mains transformers at the ready. Balcro. Quote
Mr. Foxen Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 Funnily enough, the other cab that used to go with the 360 rig pictured above had a bullet hole in it due to drunken a American serviceman. If you whip out the middle but you are pretty much left with a coffin, enough space for me to fit in, and I'm not a small guy. Quote
Leowasright Posted February 9, 2009 Author Posted February 9, 2009 That was all very very interesting. I'm almost tempted to tear up to Derby myslf to get one of these old beasts..... The cabinet design hasn't really been used again in a bass rig (or has it?), but the function of the porting was to throw the sound out into an auditorium, but I guess they really became obsolete with the onset of better PAs. Interesting that Acoustic does exist again, and may reissue the 360/361. Quote
alexclaber Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Good cab for the era. The folded horn worked to increase the sensitivity and power handling of the 18" woofer by providing better coupling with the air. Downside is that the folded horn also filtered out the higher frequencies and as the 18" woofer doesn't produce much higher midrange there isn't much clarity - but if you don't need that clarity then its pretty damn effective. On the other end of the frequency range the horn isn't long enough or big enough to get deep bass extension. Again, if you don't need or want lower bass then it works well. There is a long-standing myth that these horn cabs 'throw' or project the sound far into the room. They do not. However the lack of midrange and treble, particularly off-axis, makes it hard to hear these cabs up close. Same reason you hear a similar myth about conventional 18" cabs. Alex Quote
henry norton Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Rumour has it that Trace copied the Acoustic circuits for its early products a-la Marshall copying Fender amps when they started out. I'm not sure if it's true but either way, used Acoustic rigs have always been quite expensive - probably as much to do with rarity value and Jaco Pastorius of course. Quote
Leowasright Posted February 9, 2009 Author Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Anyone have general arrangement drawings of the 361's folded horn arrangement? Dimensions of the cab would be good, but at a guess it's probably 1200ish high, 650mm wide, and 500mm deep front to back? If I remember what I previously read correctly, the speaker is at the bottom, facing backwards and up into the horn chamber???? This is the sort of thing that gets built in the shed, just for the hell of it.... Edited February 9, 2009 by Leowasright Quote
Mr. Foxen Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Leowasright' post='404685' date='Feb 9 2009, 07:35 PM']Anyone have general arrangement drawings of the 361's folded horn arrangement? Dimensions of the cab would be good, but at a guess it's probably 1200ish high, 650mm wide, and 500mm deep front to back? If I remember what I previously read correctly, the speaker is at the bottom, facing backwards and up into the horn chamber???? This is the sort of thing that gets built in the shed, just for the hell of it....[/quote] Gutted, the diagram I posted in my previous thread is no more. Pretty sure it faces straight back, W sot of shaped horn. This is the central bit with speaker taken out (mines not an acoutic, but is a clone of) Edit: Hmm, actually a lot of the info on Acoustic stuff that used to be on there seems to be gone. Is that to do with the name being ressurected? Anyway, found some of it in google cache, gonna try and find some schematics. Edited February 9, 2009 by Mr. Foxen Quote
bumnote Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='404699' date='Feb 9 2009, 07:46 PM']Gutted, the diagram I posted in my previous thread is no more. Pretty sure it faces straight back, W sot of shaped horn. This is the central bit with speaker taken out (mines not an acoutic, but is a clone of) Edit: Hmm, actually a lot of the info on Acoustic stuff that used to be on there seems to be gone. Is that to do with the name being ressurected? Anyway, found some of it in google cache, gonna try and find some schematics.[/quote] The unoficial acoutic homepage has been down for a couple of days, and will be fixed I expect. From the french site the size is 48x24x18 Quote
bumnote Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='henry norton' post='404585' date='Feb 9 2009, 06:02 PM']Rumour has it that Trace copied the Acoustic circuits for its early products a-la Marshall copying Fender amps when they started out. I'm not sure if it's true but either way, used Acoustic rigs have always been quite expensive - probably as much to do with rarity value and Jaco Pastorius of course.[/quote] They have become more expensive recently because people have started to collect them They were frighteningly expensive at the time. I couldnt afford a 360 at the time, so I bought a 456 which was a 170watt amp with a 2x15 cab it was £700 in 1977 making it £2777.28 in todays money according to the inflation calculator so you can imagine how much the 360 was. Having said that, I gigged it for almost 20 years, I blew one speaker and had a transistor replaced, I never regretted a penny. I sold it for peanuts in 96 and after buying ampeg /mesa boogie/eden/ashdown I bought another acoustic, this time a 220 and a 406. I would still like a 360 althoughIm not sure I could lift it these days. I saw a photo a while aho [might have been sly and the family stone] 2 360s and a couple of acoustic keyboard plus guitar amps, of similar size, all in white. looked great Quote
Mr. Foxen Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Heres a vid with a Acoustic cab in a bit more modern context: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=OdQKpq4qXfU&feature=related"]Burning Witch[/url] Quote
Balcro Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='Leowasright' post='404685' date='Feb 9 2009, 07:35 PM']Anyone have general arrangement drawings of the 361's folded horn arrangement? Dimensions of the cab would be good, but at a guess it's probably 1200ish high, 650mm wide, and 500mm deep front to back? If I remember what I previously read correctly, the speaker is at the bottom, facing backwards and up into the horn chamber???? This is the sort of thing that gets built in the shed, just for the hell of it....[/quote] G' morning all. Talking of schematics, this link might prove interesting at least from an academic point of view. The design is probably still subject to copyright. [url="http://acoustic.homeunix.net/twiki/bin/view/Acoustic/BassCabinet301"]http://acoustic.homeunix.net/twiki/bin/vie.../BassCabinet301[/url] The cabinet itself can probably be easily dupicated, but matching it properly to any current loudspeakers will be impossible, because no one alive seems to know the spec of the original loudspeaker. Not even Cerwin-Vega. Unless of course those speakers in the coffee shop are the jewels in the crown! Balcro. Quote
Leowasright Posted February 10, 2009 Author Posted February 10, 2009 Cheers Balcro and all, I think a facsimilie of the cabinet is possible, by all means. Quote
Leowasright Posted February 11, 2009 Author Posted February 11, 2009 Watched the Led Zeppelin DVD this morning before work. Low and behold, two Acoustic 361s being used by JPJ at the 1970 Albert Hall gig! And at this time, I know that the bass (Page's guitar was) wasn't even miked up to the PA at all...... There is lots of stuff on that unofficial Acoustic website. The 361 actually only lasted from 1968 to 1972, and was replaced by the 371 rig, which had a more conventional head and passive cabinets, but these were still 1x18" folded horns. All the bands later in the 70's probaly used the 371, I'd have thought. Quote
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