How do you think about Fender?

[big cat]

Hi, folks.

I see lots of people like Fender. I also play Fender. They are good instruments indeed , but are they really good like that? Sometimes i think people are blind....

I come from east. In my country, nearly 80% of the people like Fender. They think Fender bass is the real sound of bass. (I think the reason why they think so is Fender invented first electric bass) Usually, people look down on other brands of basses. Once they saw an american fender, they'd say:"Beautiful, gorgeous, sounds great.....etc ". Even some of them haven't really played it......

I thought there are many other good basses, such as Warwick, ESP(Japan Mode), Rickenbacker, Lakland, Schecter, Gibson or Ibanez(Prestige) etc.....so many......Some of them i think are better than Fender. They have good design, high quality wood, also their own sounds. But the situation is, lots of people in my country would ignore all these facts and think they are overpriced. In contrast, for example, when people saw a Fender Relic, they'd say:"Undisputable masterpiece!"

Well....some one said:"If you really like bass, you must love Fender, because vintage Fender is inornate. Others?
You buy them for image. They are superficial."

But i'd say there are a large group people who buy Fender for image......for vintage and inornate image. Don't you think so? For example, P bass has a wide neck, it is sure a little bit wide for eastern people, but most of them told me they feel comfortable......I can't trust this. I think they really buy it for image, they feel proud of owning a Fender Bass. They treat this as a proof of good taste.....

People buy Fender, cuz lots of legend musician play Fender. Well, my opinion is: they didn't have too many choices at that time, there were not so many basses like today.

Overall. I think Fender is great, but not like they said. Fender has drawbacks, the noise, the vintage bridge, the structure is not perfect. No offend, but i think Fender has become a blind faith to some extent.... Don't you think so?

[Buzz]

Yes and No.

Fender are in the somewhat unique position of having both the Jazz and the P-Bass as industry standards, partly because they were initally the only ones around for a small period of time but also because they both were "right" first time round, not to mention they were good quality instruments in the 60's amongst a sea of copies and dross.

It just so happens that the neck dimensions fit a happy medium, some people are happy with both, some people with only one, but hardly anyone is unhappy with both.

S'bit like guitars, there's load's of "super strats" around from other manufacturers, who just build up and modify the design slightly, there's probably only a few dozen different designs for retail.

There is a glut of image based purchases around currently, what with the rock, pop and indie scenes using p-basses a lot recently.

[thisnameistaken]

I think Fender charge too much for what are bare-bones basses, and their quality control isn't nearly good enough to justify their prices.

I have owned a Fender in the past, but it was such a bad experience I'll never buy another new - I want some other poor sucker to have to road-test it first.

For the record I currently own a Warwick and a Musicman.

Edited February 6, 2009 by thisnameistaken

[YouMa]

Fender are a cultural icon,they are expensive for what they are. But so are harley davidsons.

[The Burpster]

Kinda with TNIT on this one......

Leo's design was jawdroppingly good first time 'round, moreso I feel for the P and J basses than his guitars.

The fact that he has tried with 2 other companies since to better the design and not really succeeded (although the S-ray is undoubtedly brilliant in its own right) speaks volumes.

The sad part for me is that Fender as a company have had so many ups and downs that its difficult to know what is a good bass and what isn't, which is a crying shame when you consider for nearly 60 yrs athey have been making essentially the same design. Would any other form of engineering project have got away with producing the same design for 60yrs with little or no improvement?

There are undoubtedly MUCH better basses available now. Basses that have hugely better QC, that have far greater range of tones, that are more stable, and that have fewer drawbacks. The sad but inevitable truth tho' is, that none of these new kids have the corporate image that Fender have, and therefore if you want to 'belong' there is only one......

For me? I like to be different.....

[Buzz]

Gibson are the only real alternative in terms of "classic image" basses, as theirs have been around nearly as long, and they've got very different designs, but like mentioned, it speaks volumes for Fender's designs that people choose Fender over Gibsons (who, arguably, are in the same position as Fender are with basses when it comes to guitars such as the Les Paul, SG, Flying V and Explorers, plus some of them semi's).

Fender's designs work, and work well at that. As some people would say: No need to reinvent the wheel, just tweak it and improve it now and again, but it still follows the basic design.

Remember, it's taken Fender 50 years to put a more substantial bridge on their ranges (new for 08 was the HMV), when items like the BadAss replacements have been on sale and very popular for 20 years.

[crez5150]

IMO FENDER SUCK GOATS BALLS!!!

[OutToPlayJazz]

I've tried very hard to like Fender. I've owned 5 of them. It's the original bass and all that, but my tastes are so much more modern. I really would like a high end jazz, but it won't be a Fender. Maybe a Sadowsky or a Status T-bass at some point. We'll see.

Rich.

[steve]

I've had 3 - two jazzes (one an aerodyne) and one P. They were all good basses, but ended up not doing it for me. I agree with the market position mentioned above, and they over-price on that basis. I won't have another one, icon or otherwise.

[tombboy]

[quote name='Buzz' post='402352' date='Feb 6 2009, 08:38 PM']Gibson are the only real alternative in terms of "classic image" basses, as theirs have been around nearly as long, and they've got very different designs, but like mentioned, it speaks volumes for Fender's designs that people choose Fender over Gibsons (who, arguably, are in the same position as Fender are with basses when it comes to guitars such as the Les Paul, SG, Flying V and Explorers, plus some of them semi's).[/quote]

With all due respect.... what a load of tosh... IMO of course!
What about Musicman Stingrays (I know, Leo had a hand, but then so did Sterling Ball) or Rickenbackers? Both iconic to a certain extent and superb quality both in build and sound.
As for the guitar comparison and Gibson's 'lead' as such... The 'Strat' and the 'Tele' may have something to say about that.

Apart from that Buzz, I agree with you entirely!

Edited February 6, 2009 by tombboy

[YouMa]

I think fender tend to look a lot cooler than sadowskys and sei,s which i personally think look a bit dinosaur glam rock. I have played a Sei and it was nice but way to expensive and i didnt like the way it looked,apart from the fact i dont want to be constantly concerned with marking the finish etc.Fender look just as good beaten up which i dont think brands like Sei and Sadowsky do.

[LukeFRC]

But then for 'that' bass tone you hear on so many records it often is a fender bass.
I have had 2 now, both 57 reissues, one 2002 CIJ and one 1982 JV squier. Both good good examples.

I have played a fair few in shops recently and was a bit surprised and the, well simple shoddiness of some of them. A MIM Jazz had poor sounding pups, not a great neck and just felt cheap. I could not tell the difference between that and a squier standard.
Compare this to the Cort Jazz-style thing opposite which was cheaper and looked better put together.
I personally am more interested in good basses rather than 'name' basses.

[YouMa]

Fender will still be around long after cort have dissapeared.

[wateroftyne]

Most of my favourite tones were made by Fenders. I like how they look, and I like how they play.

So... that's what I play.

Lots of other good stuff out there, though.

[greyparrot]

Fender basses changed music in a way, as they were the inventors of the P. bass. Of course before that they had upright. Today, fender is an icon, and i think that the quality of the top end gear is geat, as is the sound of the jazz. It still among all the basses available today a cool instrument to play, nd they do look great! But i think they are wanted for the fender image rather than what they offer in terms of sound. The U.S. P bass i had looked great, and great to play, but had only one sound, which was not good for me. Fender are an icon, and you pay for that, but for a £1000 i would not choose a fender, but for £400 a mex jazz would be perhaps near the top of my list.

Edited February 6, 2009 by greyparrot

[Buzz]

[quote name='tombboy' post='402372' date='Feb 6 2009, 08:54 PM']With all due respect.... what a load of tosh... IMO of course!
What about Musicman Stingrays (I know, Leo had a hand, but then so did Sterling Ball) or Rickenbackers? Both iconic to a certain extent and superb quality both in build and sound.
As for the guitar comparison and Gibson's 'lead' as such... The 'Strat' and the 'Tele' may have something to say about that.

Apart from that Buzz, I agree with you entirely! [/quote]

I worded it badly, I concur about Rick's and Stingrays, they're iconic bass designs, BUT they're not as old as Fender/Gibbo, and for those people going for the "classic" bass image they really are the only two companies that have been going and built up some sort of classic status. It's a bit hard to phrase it, bit like mojo for the brand name so to speak.

Edited February 6, 2009 by Buzz

[Happy Jack]

I'm a money man ... it's what I do for a living and it sort of spills over into my real life.

I won't buy a new car, because I don't want the Day One depreciation. I buy good-quality high-mileage cars which I pick up (relatively) cheap and which then last forever.

I won't buy a Fender because there are only two ways to go: New and pay ludicrously inflated prices; or Pre-owned and get into the whole [i]Is it pre-CBS / is it CIJ or MIM / is it completely original / can I see photos of the neck pocket?[/i] scene.

I know loads of people on this site enjoy that aspect of it, and I remain in awe of the depth of knowledge some BassChatters possess. It doesn't float my boat, though. I'm a money man and I'd spend too much time worrying whether I got ripped off, and not enough time enjoying the bass.

In the 5-bass rack by my desk I currently have four different makes of bass (Hofner, Rickenbacker, Lakland and Dingwall) and none of them have this issue. All of them are genuine, easily proven as genuine, and I know I paid a fair price for each of them.

I know there's more to life (and bass playing) than filthy lucre, but Fenders just carry too much baggage for me.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='YouMa' post='402383' date='Feb 6 2009, 09:05 PM']Fender will still be around long after cort have dissapeared.[/quote]

ah but thats the issue. You are possibly right.
But will in 30-40 years time that same fender suddenly got much better than the cort. I doubt it.
Would I be able to sell the fender for a decent price compared to the cort in 40 years time? Yep cos its got the brand.
Nout to do with the quality of the product.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='402406' date='Feb 6 2009, 09:30 PM']I'm a money man ... it's what I do for a living and it sort of spills over into my real life.

I won't buy a new car, because I don't want the Day One depreciation. I buy good-quality high-mileage cars which I pick up (relatively) cheap and which then last forever.

I won't buy a Fender because there are only two ways to go: New and pay ludicrously inflated prices; or Pre-owned and get into the whole [i]Is it pre-CBS / is it CIJ or MIM / is it completely original / can I see photos of the neck pocket?[/i] scene.

I know loads of people on this site enjoy that aspect of it, and I remain in awe of the depth of knowledge some BassChatters possess. It doesn't float my boat, though. I'm a money man and I'd spend too much time worrying whether I got ripped off, and not enough time enjoying the bass.

In the 5-bass rack by my desk I currently have four different makes of bass (Hofner, Rickenbacker, Lakland and Dingwall) and none of them have this issue. All of them are genuine, easily proven as genuine, and I know I paid a fair price for each of them.

I know there's more to life (and bass playing) than filthy lucre, but Fenders just carry too much baggage for me.[/quote]

There is the money side of it, too.

I'm lucky, 'cos I did my research and bought wisely. Not a primary concern, but a happy side-effect: God forbid I'm ever in a position where I have to sell some / all of my basses, I'm going to make a few quid.

That wouldn't be the case if I'd bought a Lakky, Overwater or Sadowsky, etc. Great instruments that they are.

[joe_bass]

[quote name='Buzz' post='402389' date='Feb 6 2009, 09:15 PM']they really are the only two companies that have been going and built up some sort of classic status. It's a bit hard to phrase it, bit like mojo for the brand name so to speak.[/quote]

You mean like brand estabilishment? Both are almost cultural icons?


Some good points made in the initial post & reponses.

I've had a MIM jazz & now a MIA jazz. I didn't buy the MIM based on the name etc, I got it when I was 15, most of the bands I were listening to at the time were using brands such as Ibanez & Warwick so if I'd gone for what I was mainly seeing on the TV then it would have been something along those lines. Bought the Mexican because of the neck (the width & smoothness) & of course the sound.

Was really happy with the Mexican but just wanted to upgrade so got my MIA, sunburst finish, maple board & a black pickguard that I got for it, gorgeous.

I did look at other brands when I was looking to upgrade, the only alternative I would have gone for would have been a Sadowsky though. Anything considerably better IMO is a lot more expensive.

[bubinga5]

I love fender because of the history of music that was created on the instruments Leo created..For sure there are better jazz basses P's out there, and there QC is not up to what it should be (Leo would surely have the mind and attitude of say Roger Sadowsky if he were alive today) but they are great instruments..

I know if i record or play my Jazz live, im going to get a great sound and a bullet proof bass..Thats the simplicity of say a Jazz bass..This is the nature of a big company like Fender, as oppose to a small company like Sadowsky or Celinder..The quality will lack because there is no personal touch to the instruments..As i said im sure if Leo were still alive he wouldnt let and guitar go out of the shop without it being spot on..I guess this is what the custom shop is for....

Unfortunatelly mass produced basses will allwys have QC issues because of the hugeness of the company..

A Jazz/Precision has a sound that is loved all over the world and the fact that Leo got the bass so spot inso many ways, the first time round is astounding!

[Buzz]

[quote name='joe_bass' post='402417' date='Feb 6 2009, 09:38 PM']You mean like brand estabilishment? Both are almost cultural icons?[/quote]

That's the doo dah yeah, which seemed to be a theme of the OP's post.

[Telebass]

[quote name='YouMa' post='402335' date='Feb 6 2009, 08:16 PM']Fender are a cultural icon,[b]they are expensive for what they are[/b]. But so are harley davidsons.[/quote]

In 1975, a new Precision was at the £250 mark, and they were, of course, all USA-made then. So I don't think all the intervening inflation makes them anything but rather a bargain. Because, for sure, a current American Standard is built way better than anything Fender did in 1975. My '75 was good, but no better than the MIM I play now.

As for my opinions as to wether they are the standard, or indeed, any good at all? regardless of the reason why, they are the standard by which nearly all other basses are judged, and the reason for that is that no-one challenged them significantly for the better part of 25 years. And the man who did was the man who built them in the first place...

[7string]

(IMO, of course!) Fenders are over-rated, over-priced and it's a bit hit and miss whether you get a good one or not.

I can understand that players go with Fender because of the history, but there are other brands giving them a good run for their money. In days gone by Fender was the only choice, nowadays it's not so clear cut.

The only Fender bass I've owned is the USA Urge which was a fantastic bass. I've never owned a Precision or a Jazz, preferring the feel and sound of other brands instead.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='7string' post='402478' date='Feb 6 2009, 10:58 PM']I can understand that players go with Fender because of the history, but there are other brands giving them a good run for their money. In days gone by Fender was the only choice, nowadays it's not so clear cut.[/quote]

which is why in the early 60's groups like the beatles, the shadows, the kinks and so on all featured the 'Fender bass'.... When Paul, John, George and Ringo traveled to germany and bought new instruments the P bass was the only thing in stock for Paul to use.