How do you think about Fender?

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='402560' date='Feb 7 2009, 01:49 AM']which is why in the early 60's groups like the beatles, the shadows, the kinks and so on all featured the 'Fender bass'.... When Paul, John, George and Ringo traveled to germany and bought new instruments the P bass was the only thing in stock for Paul to use.[/quote]

Erm ... I'm assuming that was a joke, right?



At least, I bloody hope it was!

[rjb]

Fender make great workhorse bases, but for me they have two main problems;

1. Variation. Far too much product variation MIJ/MIM/Squier/MIA etc. It's a complete minefield, you can't predict what sort of quality you are buying into from one year to the next.

2. Pricing. As there is so much variation between the different versions the pricing is also completely haphazard. You can pay £250 for a bass that's clearly better made than a £700 pound version.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Oddly, everyone seems to be assuming that you're only allowed ONE bass.
My MIA S1 Jazz isn't the "best" bass I own, but it does what I bought it for, and it does play/balance rather well...
For some reason, I've never felt much affinity (No Squier jibes!) with the "P".
I might get around to getting one, but the Yamaha Attitude will always overshadow it.

[The Burpster]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='402608' date='Feb 7 2009, 09:15 AM']Erm ... I'm assuming that was a joke, right?



At least, I bloody hope it was![/quote]

H.J.


Didn't Paul originally play a Hofner and then was GIVEN a P....? before he was seduced by Rickenbaker?


Just checking up on my history? ( I'm sure I read that somewhere, but I do know he wasnt using Fenders for very long...)

[artisan]

i do wish people would stop harping on about Fenders build quality,there's absolutley nothing wrong with the quality of modern MIA Fenders,they are built as good as any other mass produced instrument of the same price range,escepially the american deluxe range,the MIJ/CIJ stuff is very good & consistant too.
when i bought my deluxe P bass i tried several Sandbergs & EBMMs back to back with it & i much prefered the P bass & it is as well built as any of them.
my Jazz is the best Jazz i've ever played -period.
my 62 reissue P is bloody gorgeous.
shure some of the MIM stuff is sh*te but some of it is bloody good.the odd MIA dog may slip through the QC net,do other brands not have the same problem ?
I know Fender went through some very hit or miss periods in the past,as the very worst Fender i've ever played as a 1974 Jazz bass,but the new stuff is excellent.
ok i've had my rant,
signed
Fender fanboy.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='402428' date='Feb 6 2009, 09:53 PM']I love fender because of the history of music that was created on the instruments Leo created..For sure there are better jazz basses P's out there, and there QC is not up to what it should be (Leo would surely have the mind and attitude of say Roger Sadowsky if he were alive today) but they are great instruments..

I know if i record or play my Jazz live, im going to get a great sound and a bullet proof bass..Thats the simplicity of say a Jazz bass..This is the nature of a big company like Fender, as oppose to a small company like Sadowsky or Celinder..The quality will lack because there is no personal touch to the instruments..As i said im sure if Leo were still alive he wouldnt let and guitar go out of the shop without it being spot on..I guess this is what the custom shop is for....

Unfortunatelly mass produced basses will allwys have QC issues because of the hugeness of the company..

A Jazz/Precision has a sound that is loved all over the world and the fact that Leo got the bass so spot inso many ways, the first time round is astounding![/quote]
+1

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='402384' date='Feb 6 2009, 09:05 PM']Most of my favourite tones were made by Fenders. I like how they look, and I like how they play.

So... that's what I play.

Lots of other good stuff out there, though.[/quote]
Also agree with that..

The fact that very consistent & clever marketing/branding has helped Fender to maintain their pre-eminence in the marketplace is definitely one part of the equation.. But I think the other side of it is exactly as bubinga5 and WoT have said; P-Bass & J-bass sound/tones are so firmly embedded in our minds when it comes to describing or defining what good bass sounds are that it's very difficult to think of anything else coming along to change that. And I know it's a sweeping generalisation, but because so many hit records have been made with those two basses over the years, it's going to be virtually impossible to displace them from their place at the top of the tree as it were..

Personally, I love the sound of a good Fender bass and I have two of them myself, but I also love lots of other basses and would definitely have more if I could afford them and house them..

[OutToPlayJazz]

Funny Alex should mention his S1 Jazz. That's the one Fender I really liked from the few I've had. It was the one that played and sounded like I wanted it to. But as usual, I sold it to fund another Status. You can't have everything!

Rich.

[Geek99]

[quote name='YouMa' post='402335' date='Feb 6 2009, 08:16 PM']Fender are a cultural icon,they are expensive for what they are. But so are harley davidsons.[/quote]
I think this hits it on the head. My mum, who knows nothing at all about guitars of any kind, said "ooh a Fender" when she saw my CIJ Jazz. My partner similarly knows next to nothing and loves the look of my (now ex) sunburst Strat. Its the look, I think; Leo got the aesthetics exactly right, and looking at them you can see that he was a master at fitting things to the human body. They look right, and they work (although whether one can say that for Harleys is an other question)

I do think the CIJ Fenders have struck a good balance between the poor quality of MIM and the badge-ness of the MIA. The price is fair for a big name brand, and the quality is consistent, I dont think anyone here disses the CIJ basses for a lack of quality, and thats really what I care about. Its one deficiency was that it was noisy and I cured that with a £4 reel of copper tape. As the lady above noted, the sound is recognisable and reliable with no effort. I dont want to enter the MIM/MIA debate, CIJ is the happy medium between price and quality; if youre talking Fender

Edited February 7, 2009 by Geek99

[YouMa]

The actual design of the body must have looked like something from another planet when they first came out.Fenders are a 50s design classic.

Edited February 7, 2009 by YouMa

[Guest MoJo]

This question about Fenders crops up time and time again on BC. The Precision and the Jazz basses are tools, and like any good tool, they perform the job they were intended to do. Admittedly, to some, a solo P-bass can sound uninspiring but in a band situation, the low-mid thump of a precision drives a rock band like no other. In a live situation with a loud guitarist and maybe a keyboard player too, the bass has a narrow band of frequencies to occupy. The zingy top-end coming from your ACG preamp is completely inaudible to the audience, your guitarist's got that part of the spectrum covered and if you ain't got that low-mid grunt, no-ones going to hear you at all.

For solo work, jazz or funk where there's more aural space, the more modern sounding, active basses come into their own.

I would love to own a 70's Fender Precision one day... .

[XB26354]

Well I've got 3 Fenders and I think that the quality of build is good across the board.
The MIA definitely feels more expensive though - the carbon rods in the neck means a quick tweak was all that was needed on arrival from the US and the setup was next to perfect. I've got the CIJ Geddy Lee with a Badass and tbh can't tell the difference in tone or sustain compared to the regular bridge. The MIM P-bass feels good but you know it is a cheaper bass because the tone isn't as smooth or rich.

However... for an instrument that you cannot now buy new under £1300 the MIA dlx 5 shows a lot of price cutting.
1. Three piece body on a sunburst finish. It might have been good enough in the 70's but unacceptable with the most expensive non-custom shop Fender Bass you can buy. The benefit is that it is the lightest 5-string I have ever played. Neck heavy though.
2. want to have the bass without the scratchplate a la Jaco? Nope, because there is a massive rout under the plate between the neck pickup and the control plate. This is 2009 for god's sake, cut the control cavity out of the back of the instrument!!!
3. Thirdly your battery(ies) have just failed mid number, no problem, just flip up the battery compartment and... oh hold on no you've got to go and find a screwdriver.
4. When you want to make said adjustments to the neck, how about just popping that allen key into the truss r... no hold on, you've got to take the scratchplate off because the cutout isn't large enough to fit the allen key into...

For those of you that believe a large company cannot maintain quality control standards, we are talking about a £1300 bass here, not a £500 one. Woods cost about £100, hardware about £50, electronics about £20, there is a case and the cost of manufacture and the "highly detailed nut and fret work", which is a euphemism for finishing the bass off normally. Fender are making plenty of money out of these instruments (well, they were in the UK until the £ nosedived).

Compare however with MusicMan. I just got a natural Stingray 5. Different kind of bass, but same price bracket (actually slightly cheaper). Like my MIA Fender, 5 strings, maple neck and board, 3-band eq and a hard case are included.
1. The body is stunning natural ash, [b]two-piece[/b]. This is a £100 upcharge but is well worth it, and the resulting street price is still the same as the Fender
2. Same issue but removing the scratchplate on a MM would make it look weird anyway, and you won't need to access it because...
3. Flip top battery compartment! If £300 Korean/Indonesian basses can have a $2 flip top compartment then tell me why Fender cannot...
4. Spoke wheel truss rod adjustment - stick a screwdriver into one of the holes and turn. Same as Sadowsky. Costs a couple of dollars more, a million times better than the stupid allen key in the neck job.

Beyond this, the whole instrument feels like a custom made boutique bass compared to the Fender. If MusicMan, a large American company, can make this good an instrument for the price, then why can't Fender? They're making too much money, that's why!

Having said all the above, the Fender is a Fender and feels right. I spent years playing Status, Wal, Warwick, Modulus and all other manner of fancy basses, but they all had problems for me. Thin sounds (especially on the G), often heavy with poor ergonomics, and in my eyes a good Fender really looks the part, because they are the history of bass.

Edited February 7, 2009 by XB26354

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='YouMa' post='402677' date='Feb 7 2009, 10:50 AM']The actual design of the body must have looked like something from another planet when they first came out.Fenders are a 50s design classic.[/quote]

I am led to believe Leo took his inspiration for the shape of the Strat and the Precision from another very aestheticly pleasing shape

[attachment=19911:the_inspiration.jpg]

[artisan]

[quote name='XB26354' post='402695' date='Feb 7 2009, 12:17 PM']4. When you want to make said adjustments to the neck, how about just popping that allen key into the truss r... no hold on, you've got to take the scratchplate off because the cutout isn't large enough to fit.[/quote]

if you bought your Fender new it comes with a tool for adjusting the truss rod without removing anything.basically its a 3/16" ball ended T handled allen key,fits right in dead easy,these come with all American standard & deluxe basses.

Edited February 7, 2009 by artisan

[99ster]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='402639' date='Feb 7 2009, 10:03 AM']H.J.


Didn't Paul originally play a Hofner and then was GIVEN a P....? before he was seduced by Rickenbaker?


Just checking up on my history? ( I'm sure I read that somewhere, but I do know he wasnt using Fenders for very long...)

[/quote]


When The Beatles started out in late 50's & then into the early 60's Fender basses (& most other US instruments) were VERY expensive (equivalnet to £ thousands now) & virtually impossible to get in the UK. They played Hofners as they were relatively affordable (though still expensive) & available. And as for LH versions of any bass or guitar for McCartney? No chance. Which is why the violin bass suited him so well. Also McCartney has never been much of a guitar/bass collector - he has no real passion for instruments (Harrison was the guitar collector of band).

The Beatles were given a load of Fender gear in 1968 - & there are some photos of McCartney playing a LH Fender Jazz from the 'White Album' session. But his main bass at the time was his 4001S (made specially for him by Rickenbacker).
Then in 1969 the Beatles acquired a RH Jazz - not for McCartney, but for Lennon/Harrison... though they actually used a Fender VI for playing bass parts of Paul was playing piano for example. But I've never seen photos or reference to any of them using a Precision bass... McCartney still uses one of his original Hofners, the 4001S and a Wal Custom 5 string.

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beatles-Gear-Andy-Babiuk/dp/0879307315/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234007328&sr=8-1"]There's a great book available about all the instruments & gear used by the Beatles.[/url]

Edited February 7, 2009 by 99ster

[bumnote]

[quote name='artisan' post='402714' date='Feb 7 2009, 11:39 AM']if you bought your Fender new it comes with a tool for adjusting the truss rod without removing anything.basically its a 3/16" ball ended T handled allen key,fits right in dead easy,these come with all American standard & deluxe basses.[/quote]

Depends on the model

60s and 60s re issues need the neck taking off which is a pain

[BigRedX]

[quote name='bassman2790' post='402684' date='Feb 7 2009, 10:56 AM']The zingy top-end coming from your ACG preamp is completely inaudible to the audience, your guitarist's got that part of the spectrum covered and if you ain't got that low-mid grunt, no-ones going to hear you at all.[/quote]

Said by a man who's obviously never played a bass with an ACG pre-amp in it.

[BigRedX]

Lets face it Fenders are boring. Their the path of least resistance, the choice you make when you can't really be bothered to make a choice, the "no-one ever got sacked for buying IBM" of the bass world.

Sure back in the 50s and 60s when the low end competition was limited, Fenders got their reputation by being better than the competition - not particularly difficult when you consider the only serious alternatives were basses from Gibson or Rickenbacker - nice instruments but only if you liked their particular sound. And then we've had 50 years to get used to the Fender sound. It's familiarity not excellence that defines the sound of the Fender bass.

However since the mid-70s there have been a steadily increasing number of alternatives, that sound better, play better and look better than a Fender bass. Many of them actually cost less too.

Personally I don't like them. I don't like the shape, I don't like the look of necks that don't match the bodies for colour. I don't like the lack of usable fingerboard length. It doesn't matter that there's only 20 frets you can't get comfortably to any of them above the 15th anyway! Time to stop clinging to the past, move on and consign Fender to the history books only.

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='402761' date='Feb 7 2009, 12:49 PM']Said by a man who's obviously never played a bass with an ACG pre-amp in it.[/quote]

You're right, I haven't nor would want to play a bass with an ACG pre-amp, just not my thing. I much prefer the sound of a passive bass. I have heard basses fitted with an ACG preamp. This particular pre-amp appears to be the current 'must have' modification on Basschat at the moment. Had this post been created a year or two ago, I would have said John East J-Retro and I [i]have[/i] played a bass with one of those in. It came back out shortly after and was sold on. The point I was trying to make was that many modern active basses produce a very bright 'zingy' top end, rather like my active BB1500A. That frequency spectrum is completely lost and redundant in a rock band, as is my BB1500A which stays at home in favour of my P-bass when playing AC/DC and Ozzy covers and as was proved to me when I saw Rhino playing with the Quo at Dudley Castle. You couldn't hear him until the guitars dropped out. The P-bass is the perfect rock tool, it does exactly what it's says on the tin

I'm sorry if I offended any ACG pre-amp owners

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='402770' date='Feb 7 2009, 01:03 PM']It doesn't matter that there's only 20 frets you can't get comfortably to any of them above the 15th anyway![/quote]

How many rock bassists do you know who play beyond the 15th fret (and John Myung doesn't count)

[chris_b]

[quote name='bassman2790' post='402704' date='Feb 7 2009, 11:25 AM']I am led to believe Leo took his inspiration for the shape of the Strat and the Precision from another very aestheticly pleasing shape

[attachment=19911:the_inspiration.jpg][/quote]
Nice but not true.
The Strat was designed that way because Fender employee and country guitarist, Bill Carson and guitarist Rex Gallion, didn't like the Telecaster digging into their ribs.

The myth that Leo Fender "invented" everything isn't true. He worked in all aspects of his company but didn't design anything on his own. Doc Kaufmann co-designed the Telecaster and Fred Tavares co-designed the Strat along with various other Fender employees.

Leo Fender was an astute businessman who realised the importance of listening to everyone's views and filtered in as many new ideas to his products as he could. That is why all the major designs of Fender instruments happened before 1964 and hardly any since, when Fender Inc has just been run by money making "suits".

[BigBeefChief]

The 3 nicest basses I have ever played are Fenders.

I don't want to look like a space man when I'm playing so I hate all this carbon fibre sh*t. I also refuse to put batteries in a bass guitar. Batteries are for TV remotes and my girlfriends rampant rabbit. I also don't want to sound like a guitar. Just a dull thump suits me.

Quirky basses f*** me off. The people who play quirky basses often have quirky hair. And probably wear trainers with a suit, just to look quirky. Just because you've got no personality and your parents ignored you, don't try and make up for it with a silly quirky guitar.

Spikey metal basses. What a load of sh*t. Everyone knows the mettallers at school were the geeks who played dungeons and dragons. Having said that, a lot of those goth birds take it up the arse, so maybe their on to something? Still, get a hair cut, take of your cape and get a f***ing job that doesn't involve breeding snakes or working in the IT department.

I genuinely couldn't give a f*** what its says on the headstock of a bass, I just think Fender got it right. Other manufacturers (like those c**ts at Warwick) seem to think "how can we make a design different from a fender?" as opposed to "How can we design a great bass?".

I played a Burns the other day. That was alright. Different but still comfy and doesn't make you look like a c***. Although I do look (and act) like a c*** naturally.

Fender copies. Fair enough. Don't see the point though really. I know Vintange do some decent cheaper copies. Wouldn't get one of these expensive ones though. Most of them take batteries. f***ing hate batteries. I've stopped using pedals because of them.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='402778' date='Feb 7 2009, 01:21 PM']The 3 nicest basses I have ever played are Fenders.

I don't want to look like a space man when I'm playing so I hate all this carbon fibre sh*t. I also refuse to put batteries in a bass guitar. Batteries are for TV remotes and my girlfriends rampant rabbit. I also don't want to sound like a guitar. Just a dull thump suits me.

Quirky basses f*** me off. The people who play quirky basses often have quirky hair. And probably wear trainers with a suit, just to look quirky. Just because you've got no personality and your parents ignored you, don't try and make up for it with a silly quirky guitar.

Spikey metal basses. What a load of sh*t. Everyone knows the mettallers at school were the geeks who played dungeons and dragons. Having said that, a lot of those goth birds take it up the arse, so maybe their on to something? Still, get a hair cut, take of your cape and get a f***ing job that doesn't involve breeding snakes or working in the IT department.

I genuinely couldn't give a f*** what its says on the headstock of a bass, I just think Fender got it right. Other manufacturers (like those c**ts at Warwick) seem to think "how can we make a design different from a fender?" as opposed to "How can we design a great bass?".

I played a Burns the other day. That was alright. Different but still comfy and doesn't make you look like a c***. Although I do look (and act) like a c*** naturally.

Fender copies. Fair enough. Don't see the point though really. I know Vintange do some decent cheaper copies. Wouldn't get one of these expensive ones though. Most of them take batteries. f***ing hate batteries. I've stopped using pedals because of them.[/quote]


Superb!

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='402770' date='Feb 7 2009, 01:03 PM']Personally I don't like them. I don't like the shape[/quote]

That's not you then in the Sugarbox video playing a red bass, the shape of which has a very familiar, if [i]slighty[/i] more pointy look about it with a P-bass pick-up configuration?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='bassman2790' post='402772' date='Feb 7 2009, 01:09 PM']You're right, I haven't nor would want to play a bass with an ACG pre-amp, just not my thing. I much prefer the sound of a passive bass. I have heard basses fitted with an ACG preamp. This particular pre-amp appears to be the current 'must have' modification on Basschat at the moment. Had this post been created a year or two ago, I would have said John East J-Retro and I [i]have[/i] played a bass with one of those in. It came back out shortly after and was sold on. The point I was trying to make was that many modern active basses produce a very bright 'zingy' top end, rather like my active BB1500A. That frequency spectrum is completely lost and redundant in a rock band, as is my BB1500A which stays at home in favour of my P-bass when playing AC/DC and Ozzy covers and as was proved to me when I saw Rhino playing with the Quo at Dudley Castle. You couldn't hear him until the guitars dropped out. The P-bass is the perfect rock tool, it does exactly what it's says on the tin

I'm sorry if I offended any ACG pre-amp owners[/quote]

The reason the ACG pre-amp is the "current 'must have' modification" is because firstly it's very good and secondly because it does something different to conventional tone controls, which is why it was obvious that you'd never tried a bass with one in as you would never have made the 'observation' in the first place.

The only reason that a lot of active electronics in basses don't sound very good is because it takes skill to make a good sounding circuit that's small enough to fit into the control cavity of a bass and that can be powered by 1 or 2 9v batteries with a life of more than a few hours. On the other hand its simple when you have a ready 240v supply and all the room of a typical bass head in which to construct your circuit in which case you'd need to be working to a very tight budget not to come up with something great sounding these days.

Unless you play with all the tone controls on your amp set flat or use an amp with a volume control only, you are introducing some tone shaping between the pickups and the speakers, and where it is doesn't matter so long as it's location doesn't compromise the sound of the circuit. It can be in the instrument, in a pedal, in a rack unit or built into the amp. The last two are easy to do and difficult to get wrong, the others take some serious design skills but these days are possible if you're prepared to pay the price that these circuits cost.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='bassman2790' post='402789' date='Feb 7 2009, 01:33 PM']That's not you then in the Sugarbox video playing a red bass, the shape of which has a very familiar, if [i]slighty[/i] more pointy look about it with a P-bass pick-up configuration?[/quote]

No I'm the guitarist playing the far more elegant Gus G1!

We sacked the bass player because he wouldn't get something more visually in keeping with the look of the band.