EU artists will need a VISA to perform in UK from 2021

[Happy Jack]

3 hours ago, owen said:

I am looking at whether it is possible to achieve Welsh independance before Dec 31st. That will be a no, but the concept has recently become a LOT more attractive. 

Sorry, is that political or cultural?

Has anyone considered creating a new country out of the Celtic/Gaelic fringe, and just expelling England?

Being half-Scottish myself, I'd apply for one of your new Passports. 

[DoubleOhStephan]

13 minutes ago, Teebs said:

I think the opportunity is for the Americans to exploit - not the UK.

Prehaps. But this is a known issue so not going to come as any surprise. As long as you're expecting it, you can plan for it. 

[Teebs]

2 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Has anyone considered creating a new country out of the Celtic/Gaelic fringe, and just expelling England?

Being half-Scottish myself, I'd apply for one of your new Passports. 

I'm in!

[bigjohn]

49 minutes ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

And you're right not to, any prediction of the future is always highly caveated by the fact that sadly, no one is able to predict the future. 

The point remains, the EU economy is on the verge going into recession, the US economy has rarely looked stronger, India is exploding and we don't even know what the effect the coronavirus will have on the Chinese economy but it has the potential to seriously arrest their development.

That's where the opportunity is, and the UK has first access to it before of all our nearest competitors. 

Okay. I'll play along... access to what specific opportunity? 

And how does not being in the EU mean we're first in the queue?

 

BTW, it's no given that the EU is going into anything like a recession and it's still on an upwards trend regardless... Canada is the best recovering western advanced economy and guess who they've aligned with?

 

[Leonard Smalls]

33 minutes ago, Teebs said:

I'm in!

While I'm not directly of Scotchish descent, I have the name of one of the ancient clans (my ancestors were kicked out during the clearances), so I would also like to register my interest.

Though my wife has an Irish granny, and I have a German mother so we can always escape to furrin' if necessary. Though whether we manage to do that before BlowJo pulls out the big plug and we all start to sink, Atlantis-style, into the newly enlargened Atlantic!

[Al Krow]

45 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Has anyone considered creating a new country out of the Celtic/Gaelic fringe, and just expelling England?

Being half-Scottish myself, I'd apply for one of your new Passports. 

Haha! To keep things fair, maybe also about time the English were given a vote on independence then too? They might decide that if they were of the view that £12 billion a year subs to the EU was too much, then keeping the £19 billion a year subs to the Scots might be even better!

They could then provide free visas to all English pro-musicians to travel all round the world (and free tuition fees for all English students for good measure) 😂 

[Teebs]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

...about time the English were given a vote on independence then too? 

Perhaps they should've done this before dragging the Scots and the Norther Irish out of the EU?

[merello]

£240 per band member I’m hearing? Just a natural extension of the Daily Mail “blamerafurrinurs” approach. Total embarrassment. Hopefully will lead to the political break up of th3 UK and the final reunification of Ireland.

[Al Krow]

Just now, Teebs said:

Perhaps they should've done this before dragging the Scots and the Norther Irish out of the EU?

Yeah perhaps they should. It's just that the Scots had a "once in a generation / lifetime" vote on independence only a couple of years beforehand and decided they wanted to be part of the Union. Democracy eh? 

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, merello said:

£240 per band member I’m hearing? Just a natural extension of the Daily Mail “blamerafurrinurs” approach. Total embarrassment. Hopefully will lead to the political break up of th3 UK and the final reunification of Ireland.

Lol. Bit of an extreme reaction to visas? But you're right it really is that important a reason for such a break up. 😂

[Teebs]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Yeah perhaps they should. It's just that the Scots had a "once in a generation / lifetime" vote on independence only a couple of years beforehand and decided they wanted to be part of the Union. Democracy eh? 

Yep, they did.

They voted to be part of the Union - in the EU.

That has now changed - if they want to decide their own future & take back sovereignty, why should they be stopped?

Taking back control, eh?

[Al Krow]

Just now, Teebs said:

Yep, they did.

They voted to be part of the Union - in the EU.

That has now changed - if they want to decide their own future & take back sovereignty, why should they be stopped?

Taking back control, eh?

Good luck to them. 

[merello]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Lol. Bit of an extreme reaction to visas? But you're right it really is that important a reason for such a break up. 😂

Al

We disagree but you are respectful. I salute that. I hope I am as respectful back, Scotland were promised by the Union side at the referendum that the only way to stay in the EU was to vote “No”. This was on every leaflet . The “once in a generation” comment was a rhetorical comment during an interview. It did not appear on any literature. It is now used as a debate closure tactic. My country rejected leaving the EU by over 60% to under 40%. We haven’t voted for a Tory Rule for over 60 years. There is an unresolvable democratic strain there. This being said, I wish all my English Brothers well, they always get what they vote for.

[DoubleOhStephan]

15 minutes ago, bigjohn said:

Okay. I'll play along... access to what specific opportunity? 

And how does not being in the EU mean we're first in the queue?

The EU doesn't have a trade agreement with the US. The UK is the first of the EU countries to be in a position to negotiate terms which are better than the current WTO terms.  Being first is a clear advantage. 

This deal will enable the UK to buy US produce far cheaper than the EU are able to. The UK could immediately start trading US produce with non-EU European countries, undercutting the EU. That's another clear advantage. 

Once other countries start to leave the crumbling bloc, they will immediately need and want to set up deals with the UK, through who they too will gain access to the US produce. And they'll be buying them off the UK for less than from the EU. The EU has no way to compete against this and will collapse. 

[Al Krow]

27 minutes ago, merello said:

Al

We disagree but you are respectful. I salute that. I hope I am as respectful back, Scotland were promised by the Union side at the referendum that the only way to stay in the EU was to vote “No”. This was on every leaflet . The “once in a generation” comment was a rhetorical comment during an interview. It did not appear on any literature. It is now used as a debate closure tactic. My country rejected leaving the EU by over 60% to under 40%. We haven’t voted for a Tory Rule for over 60 years. There is an unresolvable democratic strain there. This being said, I wish all my English Brothers well, they always get what they vote for.

There will be another vote for Scottish independence, for sure. But will the vote then keep being repeated ad infinitum until the Scots give the "right" answer (which btw is exactly what happened with EU referenda - ask Ireland and France)? 

I think the position will be very interesting in 12 months time when Scotland has her fisheries back and is then asked whether she wishes to give up control of these back to EU, adopt the Euro and also cut spending so that their deficit reduces from 7% to 3%. That will make austerity look like a cake walk, compounding an already not well managed education and health service up there (or so I understand). 

I'm not sure that a vote for an independent Scotland will be a slam dunk. But another vote will happen, no question. 

And worst of all, will Scottish musicians have to pay £240 per head to play in England? (See what I just did there to keep it thread related! ) 😄 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Al Krow

[ambient]

1 hour ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

And you're right not to, any prediction of the future is always highly caveated by the fact that sadly, no one is able to predict the future. 

The point remains, the EU economy is on the verge going into recession, the US economy has rarely looked stronger, India is exploding and we don't even know what the effect the coronavirus will have on the Chinese economy but it has the potential to seriously arrest their development.

That's where the opportunity is, and the UK has first access to it before of all our nearest competitors. 

This has exactly what to do with the topic?

[Doctor J]

At first glance, the US economy has rarely looked stronger but, sooner or later, they're going to have to start paying some bills.

Just like any musician applying for a visa.

[bigjohn]

17 minutes ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

The EU doesn't have a trade agreement with the US. The UK is the first of the EU countries to be in a position to negotiate terms which are better than the current WTO terms.  Being first is a clear advantage. 

This deal will enable the UK to buy US produce far cheaper than the EU are able to. The UK could immediately start trading US produce with non-EU European countries, undercutting the EU. That's another clear advantage. 

Why would non EU countries by from the UK when they could just buy US produce from the US?

Why would we want to base our trade and foreign policy on being a middle man for US made goods?

What's so good about US made goods?

Why is that a better arrangement than taking billions in tax receipts for being the bank and insurer for the largest trading bloc on Earth? 

The questions go on and on BTW... 

 

[ambient]

17 minutes ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

The EU doesn't have a trade agreement with the US. The UK is the first of the EU countries to be in a position to negotiate terms which are better than the current WTO terms.  Being first is a clear advantage. 

This deal will enable the UK to buy US produce far cheaper than the EU are able to. The UK could immediately start trading US produce with non-EU European countries, undercutting the EU. That's another clear advantage. 

Once other countries start to leave the crumbling bloc, they will immediately need and want to set up deals with the UK, through who they too will gain access to the US produce. And they'll be buying them off the UK for less than from the EU. The EU has no way to compete against this and will collapse. 

Do you write for the Daily Mail?

Most countries have adopted the EU’s very strict food standards, the reason being, they don’t want poorly produced foodstuffs. 
 

What happens to our farmers and food producers whilst we’re importing cheap American stuff?

[RedVee]

2 hours ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

The EU is going to collapse, just look at the state of their economies. Without the UK, Germany and France can't afford to run it, so their economies will tank, which in turn tanks the remaining EU countries left in the bloc. End of EU. 

Meanwhile, the UK will have already set up trading agreements with the three biggest economies on the planet. 

Scotland won't leave because they'll have nowhere to go, but also there is no way they would they give up access to these markets. 

I hope that happens,then we can all return to pre 1975 where bands toured Europe without any problems..........Happy Days ahead Peeps!

[ambient]

3 minutes ago, RedVee said:

I hope that happens,then we can all return to pre 1975 where bands toured Europe without any problems..........Happy Days ahead Peeps!

The music business....sorry I mean the whole creative industry has moved on since the early 1970s. You’ve performed or worked there in a creative capacity how many times?

[RedVee]

6 minutes ago, ambient said:

The music business....sorry I mean the whole creative industry has moved on since the early 1970s. You’ve performed or worked there in a creative capacity how many times?

If you discourage them then they won't come. Obviously this will give more opportunities to local musicians to perform and be rewarded. It sounds good to me!

[DoubleOhStephan]

2 minutes ago, bigjohn said:

Why would non EU countries by from the UK when they could just buy US produce from the US?

They may not. But, the UK economy is a up in there with biggest in the world, they should be able to negotiate far better terms than smaller non EU countries. 

Their alternative is to buy from the EU, so, assuming the UK is able to sell US goods to cheaper than the EU can sell its goods, the UK economy wins. 

7 minutes ago, bigjohn said:

Why would we want to base our trade and foreign policy on being a middle man for US made goods?

And Asian made. 

Because they are the richest countries on the planet. So have the most money. 

13 minutes ago, bigjohn said:

What's so good about US made goods?

Well, they make some pretty good technology and we are in the digital age, so there's that. 

22 minutes ago, bigjohn said:

Why is that a better arrangement than taking billions in tax receipts for being the bank and insurer for the largest trading bloc on Earth? 

As I say, in this version of the future, the UK has left the EU so that's not an option, but also this precedes the inevitable collapse of the EU, so not really the ideal trading partners. 

[ambient]

6 minutes ago, RedVee said:

If you discourage them then they won't come. Obviously this will give more opportunities to local musicians to perform and be rewarded. It sounds good to me!

It’s not just musicians, it’s every part of the artistic and creative industry. It’s also preventing us from going there. I’ve played over there as a solo experimental artist several times, I’ve also done academic work there through my PhD, that too will be affected.

[pete.young]

17 minutes ago, RedVee said:

If you discourage them then they won't come. Obviously this will give more opportunities to local musicians to perform and be rewarded. It sounds good to me!

But those local musicians will no longer be available to perform, because they will not have the revenue stream from working in Europe that allows them to be musicians. Instead, they will be picking fruit and working in care homes.