gigging amp recommendations 10" 12" or 15"

[jarnold]

hi all,  looking for a reasonably priced giggable bass amp, i play fusion and progressive rock and an active ibanez bass and the three piece i'm in are looking to start gigging.

need to replace my ashdown combo for something aeound 300w and have been looking at the GK MB210 combo just wondering if two 10" speakers are going to be too little bass and if a single 15" alternative would be better for my live needs or mybe a 4 10" tc electronic cab with a decent head?

any amp recommendations around the £600 mark woukd be appreciated as well as a little advice over speaker cone size. i am not decided on the gallien Krueger yet and have also looked at markbass amps, tc electronics bq and bh as well as trace elliotts

thanks for any advice

[Lozz196]

It depends on the type of music, the gear the guitarist uses, and how heavy handed the drummer is. Assuming the guitarist isn’t using a 100 watt half stack, and that the drummer doesn’t try to build a shed on every song then the 210 should be fine. I used a Marshall 210 300 watt combo in a 2 guitar punk band, I also used a Markbass 112 300 watt combo in an alt/indie type band. In both of those bands the Bass didn’t go FOH so the combos had to be loud enough for the whole of a regular pub sized venue - and both were. 
 

All that said I’d look at a 212 or 410 cab with amp head - there are some scarily good bargains on here at present, Peaveys being amongst them.

[Stub Mandrel]

Despite originally having a poor opinion of them, I've come round to the Fender Rumbles.

[Trueno]

I've just got a Fender Rumble 500. It's a 2x10 but I have to leave the bass eq flat... I just do a little boost on the low mids. Always the option to get an extension cab but I don't think it will be necessary (it would be fun, though).

[jarnold]

guitarist has an amazing 100 watt Friedman hlf but it is 3 piece progressive rock band, syncopated instumental stuff. have seen some 4 10" cabs and some reasonable heads but not that educated on tc electronic heads, the rumble combos or markbass gear and i also didnt know if 10" speakers would give me enough low end. 

 

 

thanks for the replies and suggestions

[Lozz196]

10s are fine for low end, a good 410 will give a whole load of lows. All 3 of the brands mentioned are good sounding gear.

[bigjohn]

Yeah cone diameter means little. I used to get great tone and lows from a 4x8 I used to use at rehearsal room.

 

[chris_b]

Most 210's are 8 ohms so your 300 watt amp will be running at about 150 watts. That might not be enough.

I'd plan for a 500 watt amp (250 watts at 8 ohms) and add a second 210 if you find you don't have enough power.

[dave_bass5]

18 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Despite originally having a poor opinion of them, I've come round to the Fender Rumbles.

They seem to be picking up a lot of good rep. I got the 800watt head from Thomanns for £450, and its become my fav head. I love it through my Berg CN212, but cant help feel i need to try one of the higher powered combos. I believe they are very light which would be great for rehearsals.

[jarnold]

ahh good advice, this is really helpful so is a 2x10 300 watt combo running at only 150 then? pardon my ignorance never had a good bass amp so not that clued up on ohms. I've looked at both 300 and 500 watt 2x10 combos ad well as the heads and cabs ive been looking at

18 hours ago, chris_b said:

Most 210's are 8 ohms so your 300 watt amp will be running at about 150 watts. That might not be enough.

I'd plan for a 500 watt amp (250 watts at 8 ohms) and add a second 210 if you find you don't have enough power.

 

[Happy Jack]

Most cabs are either 8 Ohms or 4 Ohms. The lower the resistance, the more power will be extracted from your amplifier, so if you plug your rig through an 8-Ohm cab, and then plug it through an otherwise-identical 4-Ohm cab, the 4-Ohm can will sound much louder. NOT twice as loud, but a pretty big step up.

Life gets exciting when you start combining cabs in pairs. For reasons that you can look up on t'Internet, if you pair two 8-Ohm cabs then their combined resistance drops to 4 Ohms, and if you pair two 4-Ohm cabs then their combined resistance drops to about 2.7 Ohms.

There are plenty of amps that can handle resistance as low as 2 Ohms, but there are plenty more that can't. The easiest way to tell the difference is to look for the tell-tale white smoke coming out of the back of the amp. This is not a design feature.

As a general rule it's best not to get hung up on wattage figures. They are horribly misleading, easily misunderstood, frequently misrepresented, and tell you surprisingly little about how loud a cab will go. Trust your ears. Go and see half a dozen bands playing the sort of gigs that you expect to play, check out what the bassist is using and how he/she sounds, go and have a chat between sets. Find a sound you like and see whether you can buy something to match.

You'll sell it within the year as you learn more, but that's the price of spending time on Basschat.

 

[Stub Mandrel]

33 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

As a general rule it's best not to get hung up on wattage figures. They are horribly misleading, easily misunderstood, frequently misrepresented, and tell you surprisingly little about how loud a cab will go. Trust your ears.

I've been practising with a 250 modern Fender Bassman head into a 4x10 fender/eminence cab. Last practice I also wired up the matching 1x15 cab and was astonished at how much louder it became.

Last Saturday I did the gig where this amp was the backline. By gum it was LOUD and nowhere near turned up, had it turn right down to let the PA and monitors carry the load. I can't imagine ever wanting more power on stage than that 250W stack.

[Trueno]

4 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

They seem to be picking up a lot of good rep. I got the 800watt head from Thomanns for £450, and its become my fav head. I love it through my Berg CN212, but cant help feel i need to try one of the higher powered combos. I believe they are very light which would be great for rehearsals.

The Fender Rumble 500 is crazy light... about 17kgs, I think, which is about the same weight as my practice amp, an Orange Crush 50. The size can be a bit awkward when going up and down stairs... just don't bounce it off your kneecaps... painful. It also looks like a vintage beast.

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, Trueno said:

The Fender Rumble 500 is crazy light... about 17kgs, I think, which is about the same weight as my practice amp, an Orange Crush 50. The size can be a bit awkward when going up and down stairs... just don't bounce it off your kneecaps... painful. It also looks like a vintage beast.

I got a Rumble LT 25 for Christmas as very impressed with it, especially the digital side. Quite fancy a Rumble Stage 800. That would save me needing any pedals or Helix. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by dave_bass5

[Jack]

I got my Rumble 800 for £525 second-hand on here and it's a great little combo. I know they do the 500 too which is pretty much the same amp but without all of the modelling gubbins. That's where I'd go if I had to do it again.

[itu]

On 27/02/2020 at 21:40, Happy Jack said:

Most cabs are either 8 Ohms or 4 Ohms. The lower the resistance, the more power will be extracted from your amplifier, so if you plug your rig through an 8-Ohm cab, and then plug it through an otherwise-identical 4-Ohm cab, the 4-Ohm can will sound much louder. NOT twice as loud, but a pretty big step up.

Life gets exciting when you start combining cabs in pairs. For reasons that you can look up on t'Internet, if you pair two 8-Ohm cabs then their combined resistance drops to 4 Ohms, and if you pair two 4-Ohm cabs then their combined resistance drops to about 2.7 Ohms.

You get more power, but only if your amp is able to produce it to that lower impedance (harder load). When the impedance goes down, the amperes go up and this means higher temperature produced in the amp. Not every amp is capable of putting more power to a harder load. Otherwise every manufacturer would suggest using 0.01 ohm impedance speaker sets. "Now you can buy a 10 megawatt amp from us."

If you have two similar cabs, the impedance is halved. Parallel connection and two 8 ohm units equal 4 ohms in total. Two 4 ohm cabs in parallel = 2 ohms. An 8 and a 4 = 2.7 ohms.

[Happy Jack]

6 minutes ago, itu said:

If you have two similar cabs, the impedance is halved. Parallel connection and two 8 ohm units equal 4 ohms in total. Two 4 ohm cabs in parallel = 2 ohms. An 8 and a 4 = 2.7 ohms.

Doh! Sorry - this is correct and my earlier post was a typo. 

Thanks for the correction @itu

[jarnold]

thanks for the help guys, this is the information I needed really. how does this effect combos then? are 500 watt combos sold as 500w with an inability to produce that sort of power?

I will look for a four ohm cab if I can but the amps I've managed to try out have all been combos. i tried a gk mb212 against a fender rumble today and am having real trouble deciding, the gk seems so portable for the size though being so light.

 

cheers everyone for the replies and let me know how ohms will effect a combo? pardon my ignorance

 

cheers

[chris_b]

15 minutes ago, jarnold said:

thanks for the help guys. . . . . .

If a combo is rated as 500 watts, that will usually be the rating after the addition of an extension cab. So the 500 watt amp will be putting out about 250 watts into the internal speakers. A modular system has big advantages, ie you only take what you need to the gig.

Running a larger amp with the volume turned down won't mess up the sound, but running a less powerful amp with the volume on 10 will not sound good. It's better to add speakers if you want more volume, so a 4 ohm combo (if you can even find one) isn't a good idea because you can't add an extension cab. More speakers gives more volume, but IMO also gives a better tone compared to fewer speakers working twice as hard.

I prefer to use separate amps and a variety of cabs because I can change the rig I take to a gig. Upgrades are simpler if you have separates.

[Jack]

8 hours ago, jarnold said:

are 500 watt combos sold as 500w with an inability to produce that sort of power?

Depends on what you mean by 'inability'. They will and can, but you usually need an extension cabinet to do it. I know, it seems weird but pretty much every manufacturer does it. I remember being really disheartened to find out that my then-new pride and joy Laney R5 was only really 180W.

[FinnDave]

There's an Ashdown 500w 2x10 combo for sale at a very good price in the for sale section, I was looking at it myself but decided it's a bit too heavy for me (not as young as I was and have a knackered hand from a bike accident). I know the Ashdown ABM is a fine amp, I've used the heads for years.