Genesis - The Last Domino? tour

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

I think you’re all being a little harsh. It’s a little known fact that, like 1982’s effort where everyone came back together to bail out Gabriel’s WOMAD (World Of Music And Dance), this reformation is in aid of WOPAP (Wiping Out Phil’s Alimony Payments).

[dmccombe7]

Don't think Genesis are short of a few quid.

PC's net worth is currently £200 million.

MR's net worth up to £45 million.

TB's net worth £38 million

Depends on which site you check but they have a few quid in the bank by looks of it and still they charge daft prices at their gigs. 

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

49 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Don't think Genesis are short of a few quid.

PC's net worth is currently £200 million.

MR's net worth up to £45 million.

TB's net worth £38 million

Depends on which site you check but they have a few quid in the bank by looks of it and still they charge daft prices at their gigs. 

I wasn’t suggesting Phil (or the others) were broke, merely that given the chance to recoup some of the massive amount of money he’s weighed out over the years, he might take it 😀.

[wateroftyne]

Well, I took the plunge. £85-ish for seats on the floor at Newcastle, next to FOH.

[dmccombe7]

37 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I wasn’t suggesting Phil (or the others) were broke, merely that given the chance to recoup some of the massive amount of money he’s weighed out over the years, he might take it 😀.

When a few people mentioned how much Phil pays out i was just curious to see what they are all worth.

[mikel]

I loved the early Genesis, the Peter Gabriel fronted stuff. The only later album I liked as a whole was Invisible Touch. It spoils the legacy for me, a little, when old bands decide for whatever reason to re form and tour, usually simply for the money. I have very fond memories of late 60s and 70s bands pushing the boundaries and being the backdrop to my earlier years and it disappoints me to see them as old men, and women, going through the motions with mainly hired hands filling in the blanks. Dont get me started on the sky high prices they also charge for what amounts to a karaoke night.

[Stub Mandrel]

Why are people so precious about 'popular' music?

It's a bloody good job we don't insist the Four Seasons or The magic Flute have to be performed by the original artists!

[BigRedX]

16 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Why are people so precious about 'popular' music?

It's a bloody good job we don't insist the Four Seasons or The magic Flute have to be performed by the original artists!

Because "popular" music and rock music in all it's various forms has a history of being performed by the people who wrote it. And IME they have a better connection and understanding of the music because of this.

[Stub Mandrel]

47 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Because "popular" music and rock music in all it's various forms has a history of being performed by the people who wrote it. And IME they have a better connection and understanding of the music because of this.

Superficially, but look below the surface. Lots of songs written by non-performers; most well known songs covered multiple times and often done better by the cover artist; most bands having multiple personnel changes in their heyday.

[Stub Mandrel]

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/genesis-reform-to-play-to-older-brothers-who-like-that-sht-20200304194116

[4000]

5 hours ago, mikel said:

I loved the early Genesis, the Peter Gabriel fronted stuff. The only later album I liked as a whole was Invisible Touch. It spoils the legacy for me, a little, when old bands decide for whatever reason to re form and tour, usually simply for the money. I have very fond memories of late 60s and 70s bands pushing the boundaries and being the backdrop to my earlier years and it disappoints me to see them as old men, and women, going through the motions with mainly hired hands filling in the blanks. Dont get me started on the sky high prices they also charge for what amounts to a karaoke night.

The first album I ever heard by them - and it remains my favourite Genesis studio album (by a whisker over TOTT) - was And Then There Were Three, so its the same band I fell in love with, in essence. And my favourite album by them is Seconds Out, which is the second Genesis album I ever heard/bought. I love most of the early Gabriel material, but to be honest I tend to prefer the later band playing it, because again, that's how I heard it first.

It's strange, I never see anyone slagging off old blues, jazz, classical or folk artists when they trundle out in advancing years. I cant help wondering why it is that pop and rock artists aren't given the same leeway. 

 

[BigRedX]

5 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Superficially, but look below the surface. Lots of songs written by non-performers; most well known songs covered multiple times and often done better by the cover artist; most bands having multiple personnel changes in their heyday.

Lots of songs are written by non-performers but lots are preformed by those that write them. And yes there are lots of covers but IME the original is nearly always the definitive version. In bands with line-up changes, the people who are constant, generally turn out to be the important writers within the band.

And going back to your previous point about The Four Seasons and The Magic Flute, I don't know about the Four Seasons but The Magic Flute was originally  written specifically for the company that performed it, and the libretto was written by Emanuel Schikaneder who also sang the role of Papageno in the original performances. You see music has a long history of being originally performed by the people who wrote it!

Even in modern classical music this continues. Also the pieces I've seen over the last 10 years have either been performed by the ensemble(s) the music was originally written for, or the composer had some performance involvement either as a musician or conductor.

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by BigRedX

[spectoremg]

Ironically in the early days the singer was the only one who stood up 😊

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

20 minutes ago, spectoremg said:

Ironically in the early days the singer was the only one who stood up 😊

Perhaps they’ll all be sitting down this time.

[Stub Mandrel]

48 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

And yes there are lots of covers but IME the original is nearly always the definitive version.

There are an uncountable number of web pages dedicated to challenging that assertion; let's agree to disagree.

49 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

And going back to your previous point about The Four Seasons and The Magic Flute, I don't know about the Four Seasons but The Magic Flute was originally  written specifically for the company that performed it, and the libretto was written by Emanuel Schikaneder who also sang the role of Papageno in the original performances. You see music has a long history of being originally performed by the people who wrote it!

Even in modern classical music this continues. Also the pieces I've seen over the last 10 years have either been performed by the ensemble(s) the music was originally written for, or the composer had some performance involvement either as a musician or conductor

So you feel that such classical pieces should no longer be performed or re-interpreted?

[BigRedX]

45 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

There are an uncountable number of web pages dedicated to challenging that assertion; let's agree to disagree.

I have massive playlist of cover versions in my iTunes library and while many of them are good very few are IMO superior to the original, and when they are it almost always because it is the cover that I am most familiar with.

47 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

So you feel that such classical pieces should no longer be performed or re-interpreted?

No what I am saying is that IME music that has some performance input from the writer(s) or composer(s) tends to have that something extra, and tends to be closer to the original visions of those who wrote it. As someone who considers themselves a composer first and a musician second this is something I feel strongly about. 

[Stub Mandrel]

35 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I have massive playlist of cover versions in my iTunes library and while many of them are good very few are IMO superior to the original, and when they are it almost always because it is the cover that I am most familiar with.

No what I am saying is that IME music that has some performance input from the writer(s) or composer(s) tends to have that something extra, and tends to be closer to the original visions of those who wrote it. As someone who considers themselves a composer first and a musician second this is something I feel strongly about. 

I feel that it would be terribly sad if all music faded or died after the original performance. Personally, I think every performance or rendition of a song has the potential to be better than the first; I don't see anything magical about the first effort, and indeed many songs have benefited from a revisit by the original artist.

To list examples of songs where I believe a cover, re-recording or live performance is better would be pointless as it's entirely subjective. In many cases - where a song switches genre, for example, it's greatly influenced by social and cultural factors.

[EssentialTension]

The last time, in fact the only time, I saw Genesis was in 1971 at Birmingham Town Hall when they supported Lindisfarne and Van der Graaf Generator on the Charisma package tour.

A ticket was six shillings or, as we say these days, thirty pence. That's ten pence for each band.

[4000]

4 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I feel that it would be terribly sad if all music faded or died after the original performance. Personally, I think every performance or rendition of a song has the potential to be better than the first; I don't see anything magical about the first effort, and indeed many songs have benefited from a revisit by the original artist.

To list examples of songs where I believe a cover, re-recording or live performance is better would be pointless as it's entirely subjective. In many cases - where a song switches genre, for example, it's greatly influenced by social and cultural factors.

I don’t think anyone is saying that all music fades and dies after the original performance. I rather think you’re stretching the point there. And I guess there is always the potential for a subsequent version to be superior. There’s always the potential for me to win the lottery. 😉 But again, you’re stretching the point. How often is the original recorded performance of a song the first effort? What about all the rehearsals, demos, repeated takes? Yes, sometimes songs do benefit from a revisit by the original artist. One of my favourites, Who Knows Where the Time Goes by Sandy Denny, was recorded by her many times and some versions, and some performances, are better than others. But they’re all Sandy Denny, and all contain something that none of the many covers I’ve ever heard comes remotely close to (and I’ll laugh at anyone who suggests the Nina Simone version). 

I’m in complete agreement with Big Red X and probably for similar reasons. Using this thread as an example, I’d sooner see Mike, Phil and Tony perform Genesis songs, even somewhat under par, than a bunch of blinding session musicians. Because they wrote the stuff. And to some of us, for whatever reason, real or imagined, that matters.

[Clarky]

19 minutes ago, EssentialTension said:

The last time, in fact the only time, I saw Genesis was in 1971 at Birmingham Town Hall when they supported Lindisfarne and Van der Graaf Generator on the Charisma package tour.

A ticket was six shillings or, as we say these days, thirty pence. That's ten pence for each band.

What a line-up

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

26 minutes ago, EssentialTension said:

The last time, in fact the only time, I saw Genesis was in 1971 at Birmingham Town Hall when they supported Lindisfarne and Van der Graaf Generator on the Charisma package tour.

A ticket was six shillings or, as we say these days, thirty pence. That's ten pence for each band.

January or October?

[EssentialTension]

17 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

January or October?

 

I only recall that it was six shillings so I presume that was January before the D-day in February. Did the tour last right into the autumn?

 

 

[Woodinblack]

51 minutes ago, 4000 said:

I’d sooner see Mike, Phil and Tony perform Genesis songs, even somewhat under par, than a bunch of blinding session musicians. Because they wrote the stuff. And to some of us, for whatever reason, real or imagined, that matters.

Fair enough, and yes I know some people can't separate the music and the people, and for the it matters, so I suppose the music really does die.

luckily for me I would take the second option, the music is far more important to me than the personalities.

[TheMaartian]

For me, it's not about reinterpretation or any of that. If I'm going to pay a boatload of money to see a performance, then I want a high quality experience.

I saw Elvis on his last tour. He couldn't finish a single song. Couldn't breathe.

I'd seen a couple a super James Brown concerts, and let myself get really excited when he toured after prison. He couldn't sing worth doodly squat, either. Just stood at a keyboard most of the time.

Then again, there was that 30th anniversary Return To Forever tour. That show was superb. Well worth the money.

EDIT: OK, to Elvis credit, he did have his limo stop on the way to the Dane County Coliseum to break up a fight between a couple of punks at a gas station. And that's what made the news. Not his performance.

Edited March 5, 2020 by TheMaartian

[Stub Mandrel]

56 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Using this thread as an example, I’d sooner see Mike, Phil and Tony perform Genesis songs, even somewhat under par, than a bunch of blinding session musicians. Because they wrote the stuff. And to some of us, for whatever reason, real or imagined, that matters.

I fully understand, but that's about something more than just musicality, dare I say there's more than a touch of nostalgia involved.

 

1 hour ago, 4000 said:

One of my favourites, Who Knows Where the Time Goes by Sandy Denny, was recorded by her many times and some versions, and some performances, are better than others. But they’re all Sandy Denny, and all contain something that none of the many covers I’ve ever heard comes remotely close to

Me too, but some of the best versions of Meet on the Ledge don't include Richard Thompson (who wrote it) and what about Matty Groves, originally a cover and some of the later Fairport arrangements by very different lineups knock the Liege and Lief version into a cocked hat.