Stews Learning Transcription Thread

[itu]

I did some work with Finale and was in a group that published modern (complex classical) music. Musescore can not produce that, but I do not see it as a hindrance. Finale is a far larger and far harder toolbox for practically anything. But that amount of possibilities made the SW awkward and really complicated to use. Compared to Encore, they were like night and an orange. Encore is quite like Musescore, but Finale, oh dear. I used four of its manuals all the time during that few years of active use.

Musescore, I do not use manuals, although there are few hidden and needed features there.

 

[stewblack]

22 hours ago, itu said:

Compared to Encore, they were like night and an orange.

Love this. 

[stewblack]

Hi guys, still plugging away, making progress. I have a question about repeats. I am transcribing a piece where the bass repeats the same bar for 10 bars at the start of the song. I am unsure around this kind of question. It's come up before and I'm still not sure of the rules - if indeed there are any. Is there a convention as to how many times one writes out a repeated bar before using repeat signs? or do you just write it once and say play 10 times or something?

 

[dodge_bass]

3 hours ago, stewblack said:

Hi guys, still plugging away, making progress. I have a question about repeats. I am transcribing a piece where the bass repeats the same bar for 10 bars at the start of the song. I am unsure around this kind of question. It's come up before and I'm still not sure of the rules - if indeed there are any. Is there a convention as to how many times one writes out a repeated bar before using repeat signs? or do you just write it once and say play 10 times or something?

 

Whatever is simplest for the reader - having to count the same single bar 10 times might be ok or might be easier to get lost? Maybe write 5 bars and then put the repeat round it - that way it's one repeat so unlikely to lose the player. 

OR (not using repeats)

If it's the same figure and you do write ten bars of it you can put little numbers in brackets above the bar (say at bar 4 and bar eight)  to help the player know how far they've got - its often easy to get lost if you're reading repeated bars of the same figure...

Bottom line - no specific rule about repeats but like with lots of notation stuff it's good to think about how a player, who could be sight-reading it live on the gig for the first ever time, would be best supported. Again not repeats but I've been caught out before trying to navigate horrible chart structures (double DS's, strange repeats etc) when I've never sene the chart before and am depping....so annoying as you end of looking stupid when it's not your fault.

Hope that sort of helps?

 

 

[jrixn1]

As dodge_bass says, or something similar like this?

 

Actually - perhaps numbering as he said, bars 4 and 8 etc, is better than 5 and 9.

Edited May 16, 2020 by jrixn1

[stewblack]

Thank you both. 

My solution in this instance:

The song has a 4 bar intro. 2 just drums then 2 with bass. Then an 8 bar section with other instruments added. These are the 10 bars of repeated bass line. 

So I wrote:

1st line - 2 bars of rest 2 bars of bass

2nd line - 4 bars of bass with repeat lines either end. 

That way two neat lines of 4 bars. 

Sound OK? 

[dodge_bass]

1 hour ago, stewblack said:

Thank you both. 

My solution in this instance:

The song has a 4 bar intro. 2 just drums then 2 with bass. Then an 8 bar section with other instruments added. These are the 10 bars of repeated bass line. 

So I wrote:

1st line - 2 bars of rest 2 bars of bass

2nd line - 4 bars of bass with repeat lines either end. 

That way two neat lines of 4 bars. 

Sound OK? 

Yes - this sounds excellent (in this context that's EXACTLY what I would have done). I'm a BIG fan of sensible numbers of bars per line (4 / 8 etc - depending upon song structure / section length etc) as well as that makes it really easy to navigate and follow. Kind of gives a 'physical visual structure' that relates to the musical layout as well.

And yes @jrixn1 that's exactly what I was getting at. Again I would go for numbering bars 4 and 8 just because so much modern music is structured around 4 / 8 bar / 12 / 16 bar sections so it kind of makes sense to me to keep it logical and help the reader as much as possible. 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by dodge_bass
adding clarity

[stewblack]

Great, thanks @dodge_bassI am beginning to get a feel for this. Transcription takes less time now, and being more familiar with the nuts and bolts allows me to see the bigger picture, if that makes sense! 

[dodge_bass]

5 minutes ago, stewblack said:

Great, thanks @dodge_bassI am beginning to get a feel for this. Transcription takes less time now, and being more familiar with the nuts and bolts allows me to see the bigger picture, if that makes sense! 

Absolutely - the more you do the quicker it gets in every aspect. It will make a HUGE difference to your overall musicianship as well the more you do it. Prior to having children I did tonnes of it (check my website for all of them(!) - www.dodgebass.co.uk) and it really made such a difference to my playing and overall understanding of musicianship. Enjoy! 

[stewblack]

Could someone cast an eye over this. not added the dots yet, been working out the chords and structure first. It's the way I've organised the repeats - I'd be so grateful if someone could check I have the DS Al Coda/To coda stuff down correctly. I don't mean is it correct for the song, rather does it read properly.

Thank you

Cry_No_More.pdf

[ChrisDev]

At the end of 2nd verse there's 2 measures of C#. You could use a 1st and 2nd ending there.
The repeat and fade at the end is just C#
All the rest seems good.
 

[jrixn1]

The basic structure looks fine and readable to me.

One thing perhaps worth considering is using the key of Db instead of the key of C#, just because there will be fewer sharps/flats.  For example, in the key of C#, the third is an E# and the seventh is a B#, which can trip some people up.  Whereas in Db major, you'll have F and C, which are a lot more familiar.

[stewblack]

Thanks guys, it's really the repeats I was concerned about as I haven't jumped back like that then jumped forward again to a coda.

Although I appreciate the advice re chords and choice of key. C# was my third attempt! I remembered what I was taught about modes etc and that helped me to decide which were the provable chords. Bass notes I can do, chords I'm very much still learning 

[stewblack]

*probable

[dodge_bass]

5 minutes ago, stewblack said:

Thanks guys, it's really the repeats I was concerned about as I haven't jumped back like that then jumped forward again to a coda.

Although I appreciate the advice re chords and choice of key. C# was my third attempt! I remembered what I was taught about modes etc and that helped me to decide which were the provable chords. Bass notes I can do, chords I'm very much still learning 

Yeah the structuring of it is fine - very readable - 4 bars per line (bar the 5 bar one which is fine) and the DS / al coda works fine too. I'm a big fan of labelling the verse / chorus / bridge etc as well as that helps as well with navigating especially if you've not seen the chart before.

I don't know the track so can't say more but layout is good - WELL DONE!

[stewblack]

Thanks so much for saying so. I'm working on the layout more now. 

As I start working through the bassline I've already uncovered one wrong chord, but I took that as a plus - I noticed it! 

[stewblack]

Can't recall who recommended it, but this just arrived 

 

[stewblack]

Mr Big Stuff. Where reggae and soul met and had a great time.

 

Mr_Big_Stuff.pdf

[stewblack]

Sly And The Family Stone - Thank You

 

Thank_You.pdf

[dodge_bass]

On 15/08/2020 at 21:28, stewblack said:

Mr Big Stuff. Where reggae and soul met and had a great time.

 

Mr_Big_Stuff.pdf 39.52 kB · 12 downloads

Looking good however there are a few issues - firstly you should group all rests where possible - so a quaver and a semi-quaver rest can become a dotted quaver rest for example. Secondly each crotchet note should be clearly demarcated so you should never have notes that cross over crochets - e.g. the end of bar two is rhythmically correct but basically impossible to read. You need to break that down into two crotchets worth of material - so if needed be you could draw a vertical line between each crotchet — anything which crosses over you should use a tie for. Am in Greece on phone so can’t be of more use than that but look at any bit of written music that contains semi quavers and hopefully you’ll see. Good luck!

[dodge_bass]

4 minutes ago, dodge_bass said:

Looking good however there are a few issues - firstly you should group all rests where possible - so a quaver and a semi-quaver rest can become a dotted quaver rest for example. Secondly each crotchet note should be clearly demarcated so you should never have notes that cross over crochets - e.g. the end of bar two is rhythmically correct but basically impossible to read. You need to break that down into two crotchets worth of material - so if needed be you could draw a vertical line between each crotchet — anything which crosses over you should use a tie for. Am in Greece on phone so can’t be of more use than that but look at any bit of written music that contains semi quavers and hopefully you’ll see. Good luck!

http://dodgebass.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/l-o-v-e-joss-stone-revised-03-08-091.pdf
 

here’s a link to a transcription from my website, might help make things clearer?

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, dodge_bass said:

Looking good however there are a few issues - firstly you should group all rests where possible - so a quaver and a semi-quaver rest can become a dotted quaver rest for example. Secondly each crotchet note should be clearly demarcated so you should never have notes that cross over crochets - e.g. the end of bar two is rhythmically correct but basically impossible to read. You need to break that down into two crotchets worth of material - so if needed be you could draw a vertical line between each crotchet — anything which crosses over you should use a tie for. Am in Greece on phone so can’t be of more use than that but look at any bit of written music that contains semi quavers and hopefully you’ll see. Good luck!

This is really good of you, thank you, I shall revisit the score and update it with these improvements in mind.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, dodge_bass said:

Looking good however there are a few issues - firstly you should group all rests where possible - so a quaver and a semi-quaver rest can become a dotted quaver rest for example. Secondly each crotchet note should be clearly demarcated so you should never have notes that cross over crochets - e.g. the end of bar two is rhythmically correct but basically impossible to read. You need to break that down into two crotchets worth of material - so if needed be you could draw a vertical line between each crotchet — anything which crosses over you should use a tie for. Am in Greece on phone so can’t be of more use than that but look at any bit of written music that contains semi quavers and hopefully you’ll see. Good luck!

Your second point should read “mostly don’t have notes that cross over crotchets” - eighth, quarter, eighth or eighth, quarter, quarter, quarter, eighth are two standard rhythmic figures that cross over the quarter-note (and the middle of the bar in the second example) and dotted notes also do this. In all cases the goal is simplicity - the alternative is a lot of notes and ties that is actually harder to read. E.g. bar 1 of your linked transcription crosses over both the quarter note and the middle of the bar.

Edited September 7, 2020 by FDC484950

[dodge_bass]

9 hours ago, FDC484950 said:

Your second point should read “mostly don’t have notes that cross over crotchets” - eighth, quarter, eighth or eighth, quarter, quarter, quarter, eighth are two standard rhythmic figures that cross over the quarter-note (and the middle of the bar in the second example) and dotted notes also do this. In all cases the goal is simplicity - the alternative is a lot of notes and ties that is actually harder to read. E.g. bar 1 of your linked transcription crosses over both the quarter note and the middle of the bar.

Yes of course thanks for clarifying that- as always there’s exceptions to the rule which is what can make explaining this all much trickier. Plus I was writing on my phone so didn’t have chance to give a full an explanation as I’d like!  

[stewblack]

46 minutes ago, dodge_bass said:

Yes of course thanks for clarifying that- as always there’s exceptions to the rule which is what can make explaining this all much trickier. Plus I was writing on my phone so didn’t have chance to give a full an explanation as I’d like!  

I really appreciate everybody's input. Thank you both for taking the time. I literally couldn't do this to save my life this time last year, but now I write out every song I learn and a glance is enough to remind me how it goes. 

However, without guidance I'll just start creating my own musical language and that is not my aim! 

Edited September 7, 2020 by stewblack