NS Wav -v- NS CR4M

[fretmeister]

Has anyone had proper experience of both of these?

Are the electric pickups really worth the extra?

Anyone tried the WAV through a Mark Bass LM2? Balanced or unbalanced?



I am seriously thinking about off loading a shed load of gear to see if I can get a good EUB. (Damn you Miss Spalding for igniting my lust.)

ta

[The Burpster]

I'll be interested to see if any opinions come out of this as I'm in a similar position.......

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I bought my CR5-M just before the WAV4 was announced, so I didn't have to make the choice. Also as I was after a 5 string bass the Wav wouldn't have been appropriate for me anyway.

The WAV4 is a great instrument and if I had been after a four string I would have probably bought one to save a few quid. Although they look similar there are a few differences apart from the country of manufacture.

The Wav is made of beech whereas the CR range is maple. I prefer the oiled finish and the flamed facing of the CR. Th The WAVs have a nice range of colours, but they have a thicker glossy finish which I don't like so much on the back of the neck, but is a matter of preference.

The magnetic pickups in the CR5M help to beef up the sound. I wasn't sure how much use they'd get, but I tend to mix the magnetic and piezo pickups. Also the eq is very flexible. If The wav4 has no preamp - its passive, so I don't know how a long cable run would affect the sound of the piezo. I'd probably use a preamp with it. Something like the Behringer ADI21 (which I've used with the Dean Pace I used to own) would probably sound great with it.

The only thing I really didn't like about the WAV is the stand. The one I tried was on a tripod that looked much like one from Jessops. The one that comes with the CR range was designed specifically for the job and seems a bit more stable to me.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Jean-Luc Pickguard

[endorka]

I'd mostly agree with Mr. Pickguard - the CRM models have a posher looking finish, and if you need a five string this is obviously the only way to go. However, the sound from the WAV is incredible, and certainly not in need of beefing up, seriously, you will not believe the amount of bass one of these can produce on the E string - it is thunderous.

I use the bow a lot, so the WAV is useful for me - the five string has closer string spacing and is not so good for bowing. The fundamental on the low E is so deep I don't find myself needing anything lower, and certainly to reproduce the fundamental of a B string on one of those instruments you would require some serious amplification. Magnetic pickups don't work with a bow (you need the piezo in arco mode) or with non-metal cored strings, quite common in the double bass world, so that's something else to watch out for depending on your needs... you could potentially end up spending money on the mag pickups and find you don't need them.

My WAV is one of the old style ones with an ebony fingerboard; seemingly they had problems with some of these, so new ones apparently have a different kind of hardwood. I had problems with the supplied stand, and while NS Design supplied a replacement no trouble at all, I keep it mothballed and bought and use the CRM endpin stand instead.

I'd heartily recommend the WAV, assuming it fits your needs, it is a weird and wonderful instrument. At the moment I'm using it on gigs where I have to fulfill the role of 1) bass guitarist 2) classical bowed double bass/cello and 3) synth bass. It works well for all three functions.

Jennifer

[fretmeister]

Thanks Jennifer.


I have never used piezo pups before - can they drive regular FX? Does the WAV need an outboard preamp if I was just wanting to plug into a regular bass amp?


I am playing more jazz and big band stuff and want to get into bow playing (never done it before), but I am caught in the dreaded "will I keep up with it?" dilemma that goes with any new purchase.

I'm also writing some bass & vocal only tunes that I'm currently playing on my fretless, but that isn't giving me quite the old sound I want.

[BassBus]

I don't have experience with the WAV but I do have a CR4M. What Jenifer has said is spot on but I would say that the mag pups are very useful when you want to give your sound a bit more body. You do need metal core strings though. Both the piezo and mag pups sound good through any FX. Mine goes through a Zoom B2.1u and I have played it through its predicesor too.

[bassace]

What amps do you guys use with a CR4M? I've fallen into the trap of thinking that just because I'm playing something light and compact, compared to an URB, I can get away with a light and compact amp. Whereas I suspect something more robust is needed. Any suggestions welcome.

[lee650]

Hi there!!
When i bought my WAV i tried it through a littlemark 2 through a markbass 2x10 and it sound really nice the warmth of the littlemark really complements the high end of the piezo, it can sound a bit harsh through certain amps, i use an eden wt 550 and it sounds great but i have to turn the tone control right down to get that warm thud i like, ive never used a bow i meant to get one and learn but i never got around to it, ill be honest ive only gigged it a couple of times and there were a few flat notes, im fine just playing but if im sight reading with it, im a bit out at times .
I must say i was very lucky when i got mine it came wih the same stand that comes with the CRM models, so ive not had any bother, i do think id like the endpin for though so i can sit down , i do fancy getting a five string CRM5 though i think they are fantastic.
If like me your a fairweather upright bassist, the WAV is the way to go - all the best - lee

[BassBus]

[quote name='bassace' post='408072' date='Feb 12 2009, 09:48 PM']What amps do you guys use with a CR4M? I've fallen into the trap of thinking that just because I'm playing something light and compact, compared to an URB, I can get away with a light and compact amp. Whereas I suspect something more robust is needed. Any suggestions welcome.[/quote]
I put mine through an Acoustic Image Contra. Maybe small but it packs a punch. I played with a local country act 2 years ago in a marquee on a wooden stage. The bass may have been set a little high but you could feel the stage move. Turned it down a bit eventually. Great little amps. Very compact but they use the stage to spread the sound with the down firing 10".

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I play my CR5M through my usual rig - LMII & 1212L which works well.

[endorka]

[quote name='fretmeister' post='407482' date='Feb 12 2009, 12:08 PM']I have never used piezo pups before - can they drive regular FX? Does the WAV need an outboard preamp if I was just wanting to plug into a regular bass amp?[/quote]

The key thing with piezo pickups is that they usually require an amplifier where the preamp section has a high input impedance to work at their best; for example, the Fishman I use on my regular double bass requires 1 megaohm. My amplifier meets these specifications, so it is ok. If your amplifier does not, you *may* need an additional preamp which does. I say *may* because I'm not convinced the issue is so black and white as all that.

I've no idea what impedance the pickup on the WAV requires, but I will say that it has worked well on amp the amps I've tried it with. To answer your question about effects, I use the WAV with my Bass Pod XT Live, and it works very well indeed.

[quote]I am playing more jazz and big band stuff and want to get into bow playing (never done it before), but I am caught in the dreaded "will I keep up with it?" dilemma that goes with any new purchase.[/quote]

Learning to use a bow is indeed a steep learning curve, where progress is measured in months rather than days, but is very rewarding. The key is regular practice. Regardless of bow use, however, the WAV will give great results in jazz and big band even if you never use the bow. Compared to a bass guitar, it's sound is almost always far more relevant to these genres than a bass guitar.

With regard to amplification for the WAV, most amps work well for pizzicato, but I'd say the best instant results I've had are from Trace Elliot and Ashdown amplifiers. I have access to an old Trace Elliot Commando and it sounds awesome right out of the box, a very realistic double bass sound, especially with the bow, which is not scratchy at all. Same with the Ashdown, although not quite as much. As a result I use the Ashdown speaker simulator in my Pod for the WAV, and it actually works!

I'm using the WAV for some concerts at the moment through an Eden cxc110 combo with an additional d112xlt cabinet. It is plenty deep. As mentioned above, the Pod is used to model the sound, and the volume pedal is very useful for arco passages - generally the unmodified arco volume is too loud compared to the pizzicato volume. This setup works really well.

Jennifer

[fretmeister]

Thanks again.

It turns out that Northants music school has a Double Bass teacher... and I have found the WAV online for £699


Just need to off-load some kit and I'm there!


Can you recommend a bow? Not silly money, but still worth having.

ta

[tauzero]

I use a WAV-4 which I've equipped with a set of Helicore Hybrids (second-hand off That Ebay) which is an improvement. I use it through a Korg AX3000B into a Hartke kickback and the PA - the Hartke is so that I have the same on-stage volume as the acoustic instruments round me.

I use the AX3000B to put some short but fairly thick reverb onto the sound, which gives more of an acoustic upright effect - after all, an EUB doesn't have a big echoey box attached to it. I also cheat and use the Slow Gear type effect to give a bowing sound (must get round to trying arco, but I was pretty crap at it in my violin-playing days).

If money was no object, I'd have a CR-5M. But it is, so I won't.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

[quote name='tauzero' post='420077' date='Feb 26 2009, 01:59 PM']I use the AX3000B to put some short but fairly thick reverb onto the sound, which gives more of an acoustic upright effect - after all, an EUB doesn't have a big echoey box attached to it. I also cheat and use the Slow Gear type effect to give a bowing sound[/quote]

I had reverb put on the CR5M when recording the o5b album. I asked the engineer for a room the size of a cupboard to emulate the bass fiddle's body and the 'cupboardy sound' catch phrase has stuck in the band now.

Using a slow gear effect is a good idea. I'll have to try that next time I record. I wonder if there's a module in guitar rig that'll do it