orangepeelneil Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 [size=3]Hello, I'm considering investing in a high power all valve amp, but to be honest I’m not totally convinced by the current batch available. All the amps in question are all over £1000 and considering the Orange AD-200 Mk3 (£1200) and Marshall VBA-400 (£1100) are mass produced PCB amps I've been questioning their robustness and value for money. See: - [url="http://www.planetoftheamps.com/orange-ad-200-mk3-bassamp.html"]http://www.planetoftheamps.com/orange-ad-2...k3-bassamp.html[/url] [url="http://www.chambonino.com/work/miscguitar/misc9.html"]http://www.chambonino.com/work/miscguitar/misc9.html[/url] [url="http://www.chambonino.com/work/marshall/marsh6.html"]http://www.chambonino.com/work/marshall/marsh6.html[/url] Don't get me wrong I know both of these amps sound excellent, but will they last compared to proven designs and build quality of old Ampegs and the Hiwatts. The Current Hiwatt 200w head (£1500) and 400W (£1900) are both hand wired are so justify the price somewhat, but it’s still a lot a cash. I'm also considering the alternative of buying an old Sound city L120 and reworking it to a Hiwatt DR103 spec. Does anyone know of any other 100W+ all valve alternatives around £1000? Thoughts, cheers Neil[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Maybe consider the [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=40135"]Traynor YBA line[/url]? Also consider a 70's head like Sound City 200/120. 100w heads can sound perfectly loud enough if you team them with sensitive cabs and don't have to compete with a loud guitar. I've gigged my 100w Burman head through an Ashdown 4x10 and an Ashdown 2x15 and it was drowning out the guitarist using a 100w Marshall valve combo. I've also had a go on the Burman this morning through two EBS 212 neo cabs and the sound was lush. Warm, clean and plenty of volume (up to a point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusknia Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 IME I wouldn't trust the Build Quality of a new Ampeg either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William James Easton Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 back in my day it where all fields. know what you mean, but build quality must improve through the years, no? i could be very wrong.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneless Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) I wouldn't worry too much. The only thing that actually seems to have gone down in quality is tubes (since there is no need for high-quality valves anymore, back in the days they were used for everything, even for military purposes, today they're only used in the music amplification industry, virtually). Amps with PCBs, handwired amps, etc. aren't necessarily one better than the other, it all depends on the quality of the building process and quality check. You wouldn't say that a completely handmade bass is better than one made with a CNC, right? Edited February 14, 2009 by Boneless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 [quote name='William James Easton' post='409430' date='Feb 14 2009, 02:33 PM']back in my day it where all fields. know what you mean, but build quality must improve through the years, no? i could be very wrong....[/quote] There's no reason why build quality couldn't be as good, but unfortunately cost cutting comes into play. Quite simply, it's far cheaper to automate the build using pcb's rather than the hand wired vintage amps that were about. While older amps often used quality ceramic valve sockets solidly secured to the chassis, a lot of newer valve amps use cheaper sockets mounted directly on the pcb. There's a limited demand for very pricey valve amps built to high standards, especially when they are in competition with cheaper builds that sound as good but might not have the durability. The old Hiwatt and were infamously wired to military specs and were bullet proof - I'm not sure how even the current ones stand up to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subthumper Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Hi I see your point entirley regarding build quality and robustness. If your good at building stuff try the Torres website. If you ask nicely they will do a higher power (200w) version of the thunder bass. I'm currently canibalising an old peavey valve head for its transformers and chassis to build a 120w head and Barry at torres was more than helpfull in aggreing to supply the rest of the bits including the all important assembly manual and diagrams. Dont forget though it wont neccesarily be cheaper to build your own but you do get full control of the QA dept. Good luck Cheers Just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusknia Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 If you want to buy Ampeg, get a used American Model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneless Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) [quote]cheaper builds that sound as good but might not have the durability.[/quote] Thing is, it's not really a proven fact (although it may be true), and sometimes the components used in an amplifier are, in fact, the weakest link (for example, caps and such, in old heads, it's not uncommon to have to change them after 20 or so many years). You may have a better build, but the amp WILL need servicing sooner or later anyway. Considering that with cheaper builds you are saving on the initial investment, commercially speaking, it's the wisest thing anyway. I personally think that the most important thing in anything isn't the way it's put together, but the quality of the components in it. IMHO. Edited February 14, 2009 by Boneless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 [quote name='orangepeelneil' post='409381' date='Feb 14 2009, 01:13 PM']....I'm considering investing in a high power all valve amp, but to be honest I’m not totally convinced by the current batch available....[/quote] I know an amp tech and his opinion of current build quality, even on expensive stuff, isn't high! But, if I was looking for an all valve head, with your apparent budget, I'd wait until a good example of an old 200 watt Hiwatt came up and have it refurbished. If I couldn't wait I'd go looking for an old SVT. Otherwise I'd be looking at amps with a valve pre like the Mesa Boogie M6 and Aguilar DB750. I would also check out quality SS amps like Thunderfunk TF750 and Glockenklang HR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pentode Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Maybe worth a look? [url="https://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits.htm"]https://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits.htm[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umcoo Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Weber also do a 'mywatt' in 100, 200 and 400watt versions. Its a clone of the hiwatts, but not sure about prices. Think theyre meant to sound pretty rocking though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='409388' date='Feb 14 2009, 01:25 PM']I've gigged my 100w Burman head through an Ashdown 4x10 and an Ashdown 2x15 and it was drowning out the guitarist using a 100w Marshall valve combo. I've also had a go on the Burman this morning through two EBS 212 neo cabs and the sound was lush. Warm, clean and plenty of volume (up to a point).[/quote] How did you manage that, then? Mine only goes down to 4 Ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 [quote name='pete.young' post='409734' date='Feb 14 2009, 09:33 PM']How did you manage that, then? Mine only goes down to 4 Ohms.[/quote] Not sure, I think mine go to 2 ohms but I'll have to check. Maybe I've been guilty of "abusing my equipment" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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