Why do some BC sellers insist on buyer arranging courier?

[Kev]

If the seller asks you to arrange the shipping and you pay them by Paypal properly (not gift) then the onus remains with the seller to get it to you safely, whether they say "at your risk" or not.  Any damage, claim back off Paypal.

[jazzmanb]

Although you try to be helpful to potential buyers ,sellers can dig holes from themselves if they don't sell under their terms ." Uk only for example" ,then you get asked how much to Poland ?? 

The biggest thing is to hand the risk to the buyer ,if they want cheapest quote courier company let them go for it . 

[Doctor J]

What’s so hard about quoting a fully insured delivery price, since you’ve gone to the trouble of packing and weighing anyway?

[pete.young]

22 hours ago, Kev said:

If the seller asks you to arrange the shipping and you pay them by Paypal properly (not gift) then the onus remains with the seller to get it to you safely, whether they say "at your risk" or not.  Any damage, claim back off Paypal.

Even for a private sale?

[dave_bass5]

Over the years ive sold a couple of things on here that have got lost in the post. I wasted time trying to  track them down, and had to refund the buyers while i waited for the courier company to refund me. Not a smooth transaction and in one case i never got a refund so was out of pocket. 

I’m happy to post some items, but if i say collection only ill stick to it, because ive decided if it goes tits up i dont want the extra time and hassle of sorting it out, and possibly being a lot of money out of pocket. I’m not sure of the legal implications but I’m sure the buyer will have to do all the chasing if it doesn’t turn up.

My choice and I’m happy to lose out on a sale because of it. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by dave_bass5

[Kev]

1 hour ago, pete.young said:

Even for a private sale?

Through PayPal, yes.  Unless you’ve sent money as a personal payment or a gift.  Which obviously you shouldn’t do unless you trust the other!

[pete.young]

1 minute ago, Kev said:

Through PayPal, yes.  Unless you’ve sent money as a personal payment or a gift.  Which obviously you shouldn’t do unless you trust the other!

Thanks for the clarification.

[roger]

On 21/03/2020 at 17:46, merello said:

Bought a cab 9 days ago (thursday) on eBay. 

The blurb said “Delivery Saturday 14th)

The Company arranged a courier...Hermes.

Once in the System, they said Wednesday delivery. It still does. Didn’t come Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. I enquired if the buyer...still waiting. I paid by CC, will raise @ dispute and, by the end of the month, should either have the cab or the money back. If I’d arranged the courier I probably wouldn’t get the money back as once it left the store, it’d be my issue.

 

Btw...F#ck Hermes.

Hermes, tha absolute worst courier service out there........by a million miles, I’d rather not go through with the purchase!!

[Graham]

I'm a logistics manager, so I see the state of product that comes into our factory and complaints from customers about our goods that get damaged in transit, and quite simply I don't trust couriers.

It's not really their fault, these days we buy so much stuff remotely and online and also don't want to pay more than a few quid for delivery that the drivers and depots are incredibly stetched and don't really have enough capacity to meet demand.

Personally if a buyer is willing to accept liability then I'll arrange a courier at their risk and cost, otherwise it's collection only. I am lucky in that the packing department works for me and they've got quite good at packing basses over the years 😁

However, as above I don't trust couriers with something I don't have a bespoke, designed carton for and also don't trust the insurance to pay out the actual value of the item in a timely manner, if at all.

[gareth]

9 hours ago, Graham said:

I'm a logistics manager, so I see the state of product that comes into our factory and complaints from customers about our goods that get damaged in transit, and quite simply I don't trust couriers.

It's not really their fault, these days we buy so much stuff remotely and online and also don't want to pay more than a few quid for delivery that the drivers and depots are incredibly stetched and don't really have enough capacity to meet demand.

Personally if a buyer is willing to accept liability then I'll arrange a courier at their risk and cost, otherwise it's collection only. I am lucky in that the packing department works for me and they've got quite good at packing basses over the years 😁

However, as above I don't trust couriers with something I don't have a bespoke, designed carton for and also don't trust the insurance to pay out the actual value of the item in a timely manner, if at all.

You say you  “don'ttrust the insurance to pay out the actual value of the itemin a timely manner, if at all.”

As a logistics manager working in this area can I ask you to detail the cases you know of that involved insurance claims?

I believe the test of an insurance company is whether and how they pay out on claims

Thanks

Edited March 24, 2020 by gareth

[Guest]

I don’t have a ton of data but twice Parcelforce have broken an item in transit. In both cases I provided evidence of packaging and the details of the sale. They did pay out in full both times, the second time was a couple of weeks from delivery to pay out.

[gareth]

28 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

I don’t have a ton of data but twice Parcelforce have broken an item in transit. In both cases I provided evidence of packaging and the details of the sale. They did pay out in full both times, the second time was a couple of weeks from delivery to pay out.

But parcelforce only lets you insure basses up to £100 and then only in a hard case?

[Guest]

It wasn’t a bass - the previous poster was talking from the perspective of a logistics manager 

[gareth]

1 hour ago, FDC484950 said:

It wasn’t a bass - the previous poster was talking from the perspective of a logistics manager 

But value under £100?

[kodiakblair]

I generally avoid  any "buyer arrange shipping" ads.

 

OK it takes 5 minutes to book a courier but it can turn into 

 

Me "is Monday good ?"

Seller "No,Wednesday would be better"

Me "OK. That's it set up"

Seller "Cheers"

 

5 minutes later the seller's other half reminds them they are taking the kids to the dentist on Wednesday 😮 If it's Wednesday morning before the other half reveals the dentist appointment.

 

Seller "Sorry mate,courier was a no show. Waited in all day."

 

Sellers are in a far better position to know their whereabouts and availability for collections.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, gareth said:

But value under £100?

No, extended cover on an item “allowed” (plastic screen).

Edited March 24, 2020 by FDC484950

[hooky_lowdown]

1 hour ago, gareth said:

But parcelforce only lets you insure basses up to £100 and then only in a hard case?

ParcelForce insurance ranges from £100 - £200. So maximum is £200. Still not great, but workable.

[Dan Dare]

Why do some BC sellers insist on buyer arranging courier? Because they can. The goods are theirs and they can specify collection by buyer, buyer to arrange courier or whatever else they want. If you don't want to buy what they're selling, that's your choice. The fact that Amazon offers free delivery doesn't mean a private individual must.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Dan Dare

[dave_bass5]

25 minutes ago, kodiakblair said:

Sellers are in a far better position to know their whereabouts and availability for collections.

Works 100% both ways though IME. You still have to work with the buyer being in and not chopping and changing. 

[Graham]

3 hours ago, gareth said:

You say you  “don'ttrust the insurance to pay out the actual value of the itemin a timely manner, if at all.”

As a logistics manager working in this area can I ask you to detail the cases you know of that involved insurance claims?

I believe the test of an insurance company is whether and how they pay out on claims

Thanks

I remember the first time I put in a claim with TNT, indignant that they had damaged something in transit, they did eventually pay up, some months later, but it was only a fraction of the value of the product as the terms of the insurance allow them to do so.

Since then we don't tend to bother, particularly given a) the byzantine nature of the claims system that slows you down and puts you off and b) that most of our shipments are on FCA incoterms, which essentially has the customer arrange collection through their freight forwarder; so in those cases it's up to the customer to claim against their courier.

[Samuel Burns]

I participate in many forums globaly and I have to say this is a british phenomenon. Almost every other ad says "buyer arranges own courier". This has to be the most bothersome thing to do in a sale. And as much I have read the answers of those that practise this, I still can't get it. "Collection only" is understandable, hustle free sale. But "buyer arranges own courrier"...

Edited March 24, 2020 by Samuel Burns

[dave_bass5]

3 minutes ago, Samuel Burns said:

I participate in many forums globaly and I have to say this is a british phenomenon. Almost every other ad says "buyer arranges own courier". This has to be the most bothersome thing to do in a sale. And as much I have read the answers of those that practise this, I still can't get it. "Collection only" is understandable, hustle free sale. But "buyer arranges own courrier"...

Collection only is hassle free, and thats what some of us want. Having the extra bit on the end can make a hassle free sale more complicated, and some chose not to want that extra responsibility. Buyer arranges that bit is a half way measure. Seller gets the hassle free part, buyer pays the same anyway, and also has the option of paying a bit less if they want to skimp on a decent courier or thinks the seller is making a bit on top etc. Everyone still wins. What’s not to get?

[kodiakblair]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

Works 100% both ways though IME. You still have to work with the buyer being in and not chopping and changing. 

Not quite the same.

Buyer has parted with cash,you can bet they want the goods ASAP.

Money is already in seller's account, onus is on the buyer to be in.

[scrumpymike]

This is a complex issue - mainly because forum sales between private individuals usually involve the buyer paying in advance.  In the business-to-business world, the INCOTERMS of a sale that includes insured delivery are referred to as CIF (Cost Insurance Freight).  This works because the risk remains with the seller up to the moment when the goods are successfully delivered -  and seller knows that his customer won't pay until the goods are received as described and undamaged.  With forum 'CIF' sales, although the risk theoretically does not pass to the buyer until the item is delivered in good condition, in practice the seller has no incentive (except his/her good conscience) to help the buyer if something goes wrong in transit - and, having already paid, the buyer has no leverage other than a) appealing to the seller's better nature (!?) or b) resorting to some kind of legal action.  Obviously, as most of us know from experience, Basschat buyers and sellers are mostly decent folk - but not always, as I found out once to my cost.  My preferred model, whether buying or selling, is for the buyer to arrange and pay for delivery.  If I'm selling, the risk passes to the buyer when the item is collected from me; if I'm buying, I retain maximum control by choosing my preferred delivery company and being the customer they must answer to.  I say 'maximum' as opposed to 'total' control because, of course, it all falls down if the seller hasn't packed the item properly.

[DoubleOhStephan]

In simple terms, I'd rather not ship a bass because there is a risk it will be damaged in transit, so will ask for collection in person.

If the buyer can't collect it in person, he is welcome to send a courier to collect it on his behalf. I'll happily help the buyer with all the details needed and be flexible for collection and I will package the bass to the best of my ability.

But my responsibility for the condition of the bass ends once the buyer collects, either in person or by courier on their behalf. 

I honestly believe this to be the fairest way to do remote selling as a private seller.