Dread Bass Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Ok as a gift to myself for finishing my MA i have decided i want a new bass. I have some ideas but i thought id see what everyone thought. I recently bought a Warwick fortress and it is as close to perfect for me as any bass has come but id like to change a few things about. I would like to keep the same basic body dimensions as i love the way the bass balances but im not that keen on the body shape. I dont hate it by any means but i think it could look nicer. I want to keep the all wenge neck as i love it. I would also like to keep the same dimensions as i love the neck. I want to keep the maple body but i dont no if it needs to be flame maple is there much difference between flame and plain maple tone wise? I would like a nice fancy top like spalted maple but i want a see through black finish. How do you think it would look? Has anyone seen this done before pics would be great. i love the pickup on the fortress its two jazz pickups together each with their own 2 band eq so i want to keep that but i would like to have the same in the neck position as well as the bridghe for total flexability. That would mean 4 preamjps tho i think Could be overkill. I am thinking about going ACG but before i decide i thought i would see what other suggestions i would get. I thought about going CS Warwick but i just added it up and the retail is around £3500 which seems alot. Opinions? I have attached a pics of my fortress for those who have never seen one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Maybe you could go for a customised bass of your choice.(budget permitting) Status have a site where you can put your requirements into a 'bass' You then consider the woods ,neck,finish etc. Prices start from below a grand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Bass Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) Yeah i am prepared to pay whatever it costs as i see this as being my ideal bass. Basically i want a custom bass made to my specifications but taking ideas from my fortress which im so fond of. I didnt think of Status i may have a look later. Edited February 15, 2009 by metaltime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh3184 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 could have a look to see whether you can find a lefty warwick fna? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 When it came to replacing my beloved '87 Wariwck Streamer with something better Robbie @ RIM Custom Basses made a beast that completely exceeded all my expectations and at a fraction of the cost of any high-end Warwick let alone their custom shop models. My big hint for any five string players, which most seem too scared to take up, is to go for a 36" scale. The difference is incredible. Huge, HUGE tone! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='410477' date='Feb 15 2009, 09:36 PM']My big hint for any five string players, which most seem too scared to take up, is to go for a 36" scale. The difference is incredible. Huge, HUGE tone! Alex[/quote] Not so much scared... but maybe my hands aren't big enough. I suppose it depends on what you need to do on the bass. I like chords and speed... Check out some of the stretches in say Portrait of Tracy... That's hard on a 34 inch scale, pushing it on a 35... and for me, would be nigh on impossible on a 36" scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 hey there as for the body i don't think it's possible to get flame maple as a full body. I think it would be slight overkill to have a flame maple body and a spalted top as well anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='410663' date='Feb 16 2009, 12:47 AM']Not so much scared... but maybe my hands aren't big enough. I suppose it depends on what you need to do on the bass. I like chords and speed... Check out some of the stretches in say Portrait of Tracy... That's hard on a 34 inch scale, pushing it on a 35... and for me, would be nigh on impossible on a 36" scale.[/quote] How tiny are your hands then? I'm under 5'6" and have hands that in proportion to my body's size and I have no problem with 36" scale. I got my Overwater as my first serious bass and didn't notice that it was a longer scale length until I bought my first set of replacement strings for it and then wondered why the silks on the standard scale set came past the nut! However I've never tried to play Portrait of Tracy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='410857' date='Feb 16 2009, 10:53 AM']How tiny are your hands then? I'm under 5'6" and have hands that in proportion to my body's size and I have no problem with 36" scale. I got my Overwater as my first serious bass and didn't notice that it was a longer scale length until I bought my first set of replacement strings for it and then wondered why the silks on the standard scale set came past the nut! However I've never tried to play Portrait of Tracy...[/quote] Look at Portrait of Tracy... and then try and hit the harmonic when your index finger is on the B... then get back to me. If you can do it on a 36", you have gorilla hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='410663' date='Feb 16 2009, 12:47 AM']Not so much scared... but maybe my hands aren't big enough. I suppose it depends on what you need to do on the bass. I like chords and speed... Check out some of the stretches in say Portrait of Tracy... That's hard on a 34 inch scale, pushing it on a 35... and for me, would be nigh on impossible on a 36" scale.[/quote] I play a lot of chords and the extra stretch is barely noticeable. The difference in stretch between a 34" and 36" is the same as playing a given chord/riff/etc one fret lower on the 34" scale. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='410864' date='Feb 16 2009, 10:58 AM']Look at Portrait of Tracy... and then try and hit the harmonic when your index finger is on the B... then get back to me. If you can do it on a 36", you have gorilla hands. [/quote] Is that the artifical harmonic where Jaco would fret the second fret on the A string and touch the ~sixth fret for the harmonic? If so, I play that by fretting that B and then using my right hand thumb to get the harmonic node back down over the pickups. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='410870' date='Feb 16 2009, 11:01 AM']Is that the artifical harmonic where Jaco would fret the second fret on the A string and touch the ~sixth fret for the harmonic? If so, I play that by fretting that B and then using my right hand thumb to get the harmonic node back down over the pickups. Alex[/quote] That's the one. You could play the harmonics down over the pickups but it doesn't sound as clean as a harmonic up the neck. For Birdland, fine, for Tracy, nah. That's just me though. But that's not the point. You have different basses for different needs... hence my 34 inch scale 4 and 35 inch scale 5s. Would still like a decent fretless at some point instead of the firewood I have got now. I don't play enough fretless to warrant getting a good one. Maybe one day. Anyway... On another note - all these 5 string 33 inch scale basses that are cropping up make sense to me now... at first I thought they were a bit weird... but if you string them E to C, then you have a great range and a scale that facilitates playing at speed and the playing of chords without stretching hell out of your fingers. B to G I think they are a bit flawed. The B strings are a bit... phleugh... for my liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassmonster Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' post='410285' date='Feb 15 2009, 06:51 PM']Maybe you could go for a customised bass of your choice.(budget permitting) Status have a site where you can put your requirements into a 'bass' You then consider the woods ,neck,finish etc. Prices start from below a grand[/quote] are you referring to the smart bass, its not available as a lefty...i also thought that the smart bass was being discontinued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote]On another note - all these 5 string 33 inch scale basses that are cropping up make sense to me now... at first I thought they were a bit weird... but if you string them E to C, then you have a great range and a scale that facilitates playing at speed and the playing of chords without stretching hell out of your fingers. B to G I think they are a bit flawed. The B strings are a bit... phleugh... for my liking.[/quote] TBH, I personally don't find it makes a significant difference. There's a 2.94% decrease in scale length from a 34" scale length. That decrease is squared in the decrease in tension needed to get to the same pitch (Tension is proportional to Length squared). There will therefore be a more noticeable difference in the tension than the feel of the distance between the frets. I definitely notice this tension difference, but I can't say how much is attributable to the difference between the scale lengths of my basses, and how much is the sum of the other differences. The 2.94% decrease in general speaking length however will mean a 2.94% change in each fret position. I can't access a fret calculator right now but I'm pretty sure that's on the order of a 2-3mm change between the nut and the 1st fret. This obviously diminishes the higher up the neck you go. Whilst this is all subjective, I don't believe that this makes a substantial difference to the playability of a bass, at least with regard to distances between frets. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathewsanchez Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Maybe something Shuker? I've heard nothing but great things about his basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 [quote name='mcgraham' post='411101' date='Feb 16 2009, 02:09 PM']TBH, I personally don't find it makes a significant difference. There's a 2.94% decrease in scale length from a 34" scale length. That decrease is squared in the decrease in tension needed to get to the same pitch (Tension is proportional to Length squared). There will therefore be a more noticeable difference in the tension than the feel of the distance between the frets. I definitely notice this tension difference, but I can't say how much is attributable to the difference between the scale lengths of my basses, and how much is the sum of the other differences. The 2.94% decrease in general speaking length however will mean a 2.94% change in each fret position. I can't access a fret calculator right now but I'm pretty sure that's on the order of a 2-3mm change between the nut and the 1st fret. This obviously diminishes the higher up the neck you go. Whilst this is all subjective, I don't believe that this makes a substantial difference to the playability of a bass, at least with regard to distances between frets. Mark[/quote] The difference is 0.93 cm between the second and 6th fret when comparing 34 inch to a 36 inch scale... nearly 1 cm is considerable when you (well, me anyway - I find it difficult enough on a 34 inch scale) are at full stretch I reckon. Again, it's all down to personal taste, but I would never go to a 36 inch scale for that sort of playing. Having said that, I wouldn't be against 36 inch scale if I wasn't playing that sort of music... I certainly think that a 35 scale B is better than a 34... but not amazingly so. A 36 inch scale would probably improve that further. Again, there is no wrong or right. If a certain scale works for you, then great. Personally I'll stick to 34 inch and 35 inch scales but that doesn't mean that anybody else should. Similarly, I would never use use a G string that is less that a 40 guage... but plenty of other guys do. It's all down to preference. I dig my GBs - hence my collection, they work for me... it doesn't necessarily mean they are right for everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I've double checked measurements. First fret length on: 36" scale = 51.344mm 34" scale = 48.493mm 33" scale = 47.061mm On this fret, this gives a difference of: 36 to 34" = 2.851mm 34 to 33" = 1.432mm So even less difference than I imagined. The difference between n and n+1 frets will only get smaller the further up the neck you go. EBS_freak, I agree that it cumulatively adds up, and if you are definitely at maximum stretch then it would possibly be foolish to change scale length to make this impossible. However, when you consider the [i]actual[/i] difference this makes, it begs the question, is it really physically insurmountable? Or is it all mental? You're right in that you should just play whatever scale length suits you, it's not as if there's lives depending on your scale length. I just dislike unfounded mumbo jumbo about instruments that avid musicians often descend into. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='mcgraham' post='411272' date='Feb 16 2009, 04:22 PM']I've double checked measurements. First fret length on: 36" scale = 51.344mm 34" scale = 48.493mm 33" scale = 47.061mm On this fret, this gives a difference of: 36 to 34" = 2.851mm 34 to 33" = 1.432mm So even less difference than I imagined. The difference between n and n+1 frets will only get smaller the further up the neck you go. EBS_freak, I agree that it cumulatively adds up, and if you are definitely at maximum stretch then it would possibly be foolish to change scale length to make this impossible. However, when you consider the [i]actual[/i] difference this makes, it begs the question, is it really physically insurmountable? Or is it all mental? You're right in that you should just play whatever scale length suits you, it's not as if there's lives depending on your scale length. I just dislike unfounded mumbo jumbo about instruments that avid musicians often descend into. Mark[/quote] That's my point I guess, it's not about the differences in the individual fret widths, its the cumulative spacing of them. It's like saying that you can play a double bass... no problem, you can play an electric bass, no problem.... now play PoT on that double bass... It's just not going to happen! I agree with what you are saying about unfounded mumbo jumbo - I completely agree with you... but in this case, I know that I can't do that stretch easily on a 34, it's very hit and miss on a 35... and I could never get it on the 36 I played... maybe I could, but what's the point if it's more difficult than necessary and introducing the risk of crappy notes and hand cramp into it. <breathe!> I heard basses that are 35 inch scales that have a terrible bottom B... and I have heard basses that are 34 that have a great B... but all of that is not what's most significant. It's the overall tone and playability - what's the point of having the greatest sounding bass if it is nigh on impossible to play...? My opinion on the biggest mumbo jumbo out there? Pickups. Any particular brand? Nordstrand. Woo. Nordstrand. I had Nordstrands. Sounded pants. But again, that's just my opinion. Edited February 16, 2009 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) Glad we're on the same page I realised after I posted I kind of left it open for people to assume that I was talking about your comments being in the same vein as 'mumbo jumbo'. I didn't think that at all, so I apologise if it read that way. Yea, contemporary musicians are bizarre that way. For example, when a new head comes out... comments like "I bet that sounds great" just confuse me; I want to say "You've never heard it!! And it will produce a different sound depending on what cabinet you pump it through, and it will marry with different basses in different ways!! How can you possibly be certain it will sound great?!"... but I don't... And then there's tonal perceptions. Totally subjective what wood/component imparts what tone, and even then, it's totally controversial whether certain aspects impart tone at all, let alone what sort of tone they impart. Yet bold assertions abound with little to no rational basis, or with weak reasoning at best. ARGH! It's enough to drive a sane physicist crazy! Mark P.S. I agree about Nordstrands, they were nothing special to me. Most were not bad, some were everything I didn't want in a pickup, but in general they left me unmoved. Edited February 16, 2009 by mcgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 FWIW I am constantly surprised by the tone my 33" Sei produces - just recorded with it again the other day and hit quite few low Ds on the B string and they sounded way fat, rounded and full of lovely warm tone. Personally speaking I wanted MY bass t be as comfortable as possible and not have to fight it for any note on the finger board. I've tried longer/larger scale basses - i.e 35 ane 36" scale - and I just don't like them - nothing against them - they just aren't for me. Having said that I love 34" and my fretless is a 26 fret position neck so I have the best of both worlds Back to what you want in your bass - not what everyone's opinion of various scale lengths are - there are loads of great luthiers about in the UK (you are spoilt for choice) obviously I'm biased and would recommend [url="http://www.seibass.com"]Sei basses[/url] but this forum has loads of examples of different styles - why not check them out and see what looks good for you. Things to consider are where you are based in relation to the location of the luthier (maybe that's just a personal thing for me) but obviously price, options - do they offer what YOU want - and of course that all important build time... Any questions just ask. M [quote name='EBS_freak' post='411302' date='Feb 16 2009, 04:41 PM']My opinion on the biggest mumbo jumbo out there? Pickups. Any particular brand? Nordstrand. Woo. Nordstrand. I had Nordstrands. Sounded pants. But again, that's just my opinion.[/quote] I have Nordy's and they sound great - just from what I have experienced with my bass - I have heard them on another bass as well and they sounded wicked on there too - but hey it's just my opinion. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Bass Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='410477' date='Feb 15 2009, 09:36 PM']When it came to replacing my beloved '87 Wariwck Streamer with something better Robbie @ RIM Custom Basses made a beast that completely exceeded all my expectations and at a fraction of the cost of any high-end Warwick let alone their custom shop models. My big hint for any five string players, which most seem too scared to take up, is to go for a 36" scale. The difference is incredible. Huge, HUGE tone! Alex[/quote] I like the idea of the extended range but not sure if it would add too much tension to the strings. My tone requires me to bounce the strings off the frets and the extra tension may make this more difficult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) If you immediately decide to put your hard earned into a custom made bass and then don't like it then you'll lose a lot selling it on. Especially being a lefty. Might be a bit difficult being a lefty but why not try as much as you can first? My story is that my favourite bass was the Fender '51 reissue P bass but couldn't get on with the lack of body contouring so when I had my Warmoth bass built I incorporated all the best aspects from over 50 basses that i had played over a period of a couple of years rather than just making a similar version of the one I already had. As a result, it looks like a '54 shape but is comprised of features from Warwick, Musicman, Epiphone, Bass Collection, Modulus and Fender. You also mention that you only recently bought the Warwick. I would recommend that you keep it a lot longer to make sure that this is the route you want to take if you do decide to have one custom made on the strength of this one bass. I've had many basses and a lot of them have been 'the one' only to decide that it wasn't for me in the end. Edited February 17, 2009 by Delberthot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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