Are we all using the wrong tuning?

[pete.young]

Been scratching my head over this for a while, and the splinters are starting to hurt my fingers so I thought I'd share.

I am very very happy with the feel of a 4-string bass. OK, I have small hands, but I do play upright bass and I still find 5-string bass guitars are uncomfortable and the 6-string I owned had a fingerboard wider than the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. But, so much of the stuff I play needs notes below the bottom E, often because our singer's voice range isn't quite there for Aretha and we end up dropping a semitone or two.

I traded the last 5-string I owned and set up one of my 4-strings B-E-A-D, thinking I could swap to it for the odd number. But that doesnt work in a live situation - there isn't time to swap basses.

So I went through the whole of our set, some 80-odd numbers and guess what? I can play it all on a 4-string , strung B-E-A-D, no problems. Which made me wonder why a tuning designed for 18thC chamber music was more relevant to the modern times we live in, and I couldn't come up with a sensible answer.

Yes, it was good enough for Jameson/Pastorius/Rainey/Entwistle, and I can fake a lot with a decent octave pedal, but I'm starting to wonder whether E-A-D-G is the best tuning for a 4-string bass. I hear a lot of people saying 'I must have a 5-string' , but who actually uses those notes above the top D (assuming a 24-fret neck) ? It looks as though I don't.

There's a simple answer for me which may not work for everyone else - I can use B-E-A-D no problem, but there's a nagging doubt here that I'm not doing the right thing. Any other B-E-A-D users want to come out of the closet?

Please understand that this is not intended as a dig at extended range instruments because I know that's a very sensitive area and I don't want to re-open old wounds. I'm really just thinking about making the most of the limitations of a 4-string axe.

[stingrayfan]

Re-learn the fretboard? Sounds like crazy talk!

[YouMa]

Good point! i have not tried BEAD yet but would like to as i rarely go high up on the G. Is there any issues with neck strength on say something like a 4 string jazz with BEAD.

Edited February 15, 2009 by YouMa

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='YouMa' post='410518' date='Feb 15 2009, 10:09 PM']Good point! i have not tried BEAD yet but would like to as i rarely go high up on the G. Is there any issues with neck strength on say something like a 4 string jazz with BEAD.[/quote]

No - most strings used in a BEAD tuning would put less force on the neck than a standard set tuned EADG.

Do what you want with tunings, there's nothing stopping you tuning down to C# or C with 50-110s on for instance.
We currently tune to Eb to suit our singer and that works fine with my 45s.

[Huw Foster]

I've been having fun with flat tuning at the moment, but I've not tried BEAD. I have quite small hands, but the string spacing on my 5 is actually quite comfortable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tim Commerford use BEAD for some of the Audioslave stuff? I'm pretty sure some of the tracks on the first album (Cochise and Show Me How to Live spring to mind) include a low B without the use of a 5 string or a whammy pedal.

[phil_the_bassist]

very logical, if i were forced to loose a string, it would definately be the G, and I'd loose it in a heartbeat!

[Josh]

I'm an advocate for playing in lower tunings, since trying it propely almost over a year ago I have pretty much fully adjusted to it and I don't regret it all. Anyone who still thinks that tuning low is purely for metal truely need to pull their head out of their ass.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Josh

[BigRedX]

On my first bass I rarely dropped below A because the E string simply sounded cr@p. Plus I was being heavily influenced by Joy Division and discovering chords and open string drones. As I wrote all the music for the band I was in at the time I could work around the limitations of my instrument and still create something that sounded good. Then I spent the next 10 years playing synths. When I came back to the bass I found that I needed notes below even open E and there were basses that could deliver them. I was tempted for a while to go 4 string BEAD, but I always found that I wanted notes high up on the G too.

What I'm trying to say here is if you don't need the G string, change to B-D tuning. Don't follow other peoples rules if they're working against what you want to achieve. Make your own rules.

[Mottlefeeder]

I played a BEADG 5-string fretted and a BEAD fretless for a couple of years and had no problems. I upgraded to a pair of 5-stringers for consistency, but I have to say I rarely use the G string.

The downside is that your choice of strings is limited. There are a few sets of BEAD strings out there, but the alternative is to buy a 5-string set, and sell on the G to a slapping and popping enthusiast.

Also, unless you have a Warwick or similar with an adjust-a-nut 1, you will need to file out the nut, and replace it if you change back. With the adjust-a-nut 1, each string sits in a groove in a screwhead and Warwick will send you a replacement screw at no charge - it isn't the E, it's the A or D that has to be changed.

[jansenh]

[quote name='pete.young' post='410505' date='Feb 15 2009, 10:58 PM']Any other B-E-A-D users want to come out of the closet?[/quote]

Makes perfect sense to me. I play thrash metal with bases tuned C-F-A#-D# (yes I know its wierd, but it works for me...). I used to play a 5-string for this, but didnt really like it. Tried B-E-A-D as well, but C is as far down as I need to go. AND more important, a C-F-A#-D# does'nt need really heavy strings. I use a 115-110-90-75 setup. ( I cannot stand drop variants, btw)

More recently I have started using the same setup for a blues-sidekick I am doing. We'll see how that goes, but a number of blues songs are easier to play with this tuning. And a few ones are harder.

Best of luck to you and your efforts!


Regards, Henning - Norway

[thedontcarebear]

To answer the question - no.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Not sure how my mustang would sound with a low B. There's only two songs I do where I would use a Low D. Three of my basses have D tuners on them and my NS upright is a fiver. However if I'm using a bass without a low B, I just play the Ds an octave above. No ones noticed so far.

Horses for courses I say. I'm happy sticking with EADG as I use the G string more than I use the B on my 5ers.

[alexclaber]

If you go back some way double basses (or their bass viol predecessors) only went down to (55Hz) A. When bass guitars first appeared they often used to be doubled with tic-tac guitar to make the lower notes audible. On Motown recordings the bass leapt to the forefront without anything doubling it for audibility and even in lowered tunings. If you move forward to AJ's work with Chaka Khan he was pulling off even lower tunings and making them work on radio-friendly pop-fare. So there is no doubt that improving technology and production know how over time has made lower notes more relevant and useful.

Note that plenty of organ music goes lower than 5-string basses do, the pipe organ having long been excellent at delivering big low notes in a musical way, so lower tunings on bass guitars shouldn't be seen as a fad but as the inevitable result of technology allowing bass players to get the sound they want.

The issue I have with BEAD tuning is that a 34" scale rarely results in an instrument that can make good use of that low B string throughout its range. If you dare go a bit longer the difference in tone and playability is radical.

I'm one of those weirdos who having switched to 5-string a year ago actually regularly uses the entire range but such use of frets fifteen and upwards seems so uncommon that I used to find myself wondering why most didn't just tune lower rather than adding another string. However losing that G-string doesn't just lose five notes at the top of the neck, it loses you a different sound on about fifteen notes and a whole load of alternate positions.

But if you really don't want any of what the G-string can give you then why bother with having another string to mute and keep in tune?

Alex

[Tait]

i considered stringing one of my basses BEAD for a while, but then i realised i dont need it, at all. every song in one of my bands can be done in EADG (or on the records they're Eb Ab Db Gb but we play them in EADG) and in my other band theyre all EADG or DADG, so i really didn't see the point. it was a matter of if it aint broke, dont fix it. but i can really understand how useful BEAD would be, and now this threads come up its making me think about stringing my OLP BEAD. i dont think i will though, cba to file the nut then replace it when i decide i dont like BEAD.

[OutToPlayJazz]

The original G D A E tuning on a bass comes [as already stated] from the double bass. Remember that your electric basses are, in essence, double basses turned through ninety degrees. The practice of tuning the strings a perfect fourth apart comes from the fact that with the significantly larger scale length than that of the cello [which is tuned in perfect fifths], it is not practical for the player's left hand to span more than one tone for a large proportion of the fingerboard.

Even as a double bass player, I've never detuned. One of my double basses is a 5-stringer with the bottom B string, the same as most 5-string electric basses. That gives me all the extended range I need classically. In the case of the electric bass, I've always found that again, having more strings is the perfect solution to the problems of range or more challenging keys.

On some jobs I'll use one of my Status 5-stringers for extended range and on others I'll use my TRB-6 II. The Yamaha comes in especially handy for big band jobs where I've got lots of flats due to the arrangements and transposed keys of wind instruments. It all depends on what I'm playing at the time.

Rich.

[bigjohn]

Hmmm.

Why all this talk of losing the g string? surely if you tune BEAD then G is the second fret of the top string. You don't lose anything, you just gain an extra two frets lower and lose two frets where you shouldn't be playing anyhow.

You fella's talk car-azy talk,

your problem would be :

1) your bass's
a) itonation )although if you were to use eadg strings - that shouldn't be a problem really)
set up

2) your speakers (maybe)

3) your engineers (if any)

3) your ears

4) your playing flop flop...

Edited February 15, 2009 by bigjohn

[ARGH]

Go buy a 5 set,ditch the G (ebay) recut the nut,check the action out with a pro setup,and try it for 6 months..If it works,keep it,if not ,change back.

ICON's lp was writtin in drop C..pretty much. Ive played a P in BEAD,it works,but you have to have decent strings..and through body stringing is a bit of a help if all you have is 34" scale.

Edited February 15, 2009 by ARGH

[YouMa]

A lot of the stuff i listen to by chaka khan like the live versions of i feel for you need the low B because you are playing in unison with synths,i wish some one could come up with some sort of onboard electronic detuner as most octave pedals i have used dont really cut the mustard.

[Hamster]

BEAD is a sound idea, and I don't spend a lot of time past C on the G string but it has been known, so it's just a dalliance for me I'm afraid.

[ped]

I think its a good idea in some ways. I have always tuned DADG because you get a couple of extra notes and I like the looser feel. Playing in E now feels a bit tight and restricted, so why not have 2 more notes to play with!

I wouldn't lose my G though because I really like the feel of it under my hand for the occasional 'pop' and haven't found anything below D very useful for me.

Definitely no reason not to keep it BEAD though. Tune however works. I used to play a P bass tuned BEAG for a while because the songs were impossible to play otherwise, they were written on a 5 but then I sold it without thinking!!

Cheers
ped

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='bigjohn' post='410619' date='Feb 15 2009, 11:38 PM']Hmmm.

Why all this talk of losing the g string? surely if you tune BEAD then G is the second fret of the top string. You don't lose anything, you just gain an extra two frets lower and lose two frets where you shouldn't be playing anyhow.[/quote]

I may have misunderstood what you're saying, but the 2nd fret on the top string 'D' would be an 'E'.

I play a 6, and really can't get used to playing a 4 string bass, I bought two recently and hate them, I've sold one and I'm about to sell the other one.
If you want to stick with 4 strings then tuning BEAD makes sense to me.
I love the low notes and play a lot of jazz, a lot of the music I play is in Bb, Eb C minor etc, and on a normally tuned 4 string bass the lowest Eb is only a semitone lower than the lowest E string on a guitar.

Edited February 15, 2009 by 6stringbassist

[ZMech]

Just to throw a bit of crazy out there, why don't we tune in 5ths? Unless I'm mistaken most string instruments to that, except of course guitar and double bass. Anyone know why this is?

[OutToPlayJazz]

[quote]Just to throw a bit of crazy out there, why don't we tune in 5ths? Unless I'm mistaken most string instruments to that, except of course guitar and double bass. Anyone know why this is?[/quote]

Could've sworn I already explained this...

[Matty]

Its tuned in fourths because on a double bass, the stretches would be near impossible for the music being produced at the time.

I have a 4 string tuned to BEAD and a four string tuned CGDA and both are great fun to play and both have their uses.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Matty

[Delberthot]

Tried it and found it guilty



I use the G far too much to be without it. I played 5s and 6s for about 12 years and only went back to a 4 about a year ago. I have to say that i don;t miss the B at all/ When i was younger I learned how to play DADG and CADG so I can use these if needed but they rarely are.