Yew-topped SG-style Guitar * Finished Pics!

[SpondonBassed]

2 hours ago, Maude said:

Perfect for Steinberger basses then. 

They don't tell you you're supposed to wear a cup with those...

[Daz39]

2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Actually, great advice.  The rough side of brown packing paper is also fantastic as a slightly rougher 'flour paper'.

Surely if you want to be a real Master Craftsperson; after you’ve used 80gsm printer paper, brown packing paper, rolled up clingfilm (when it tears wrong and you need a metre of it to cover a yoghurt pot), and then dandelion fluff, the real final step is to give every piece of the wood a good hard staring at until it damn well smooths, shines and flattens itself to perfection.

[Andyjr1515]

7 minutes ago, Daz39 said:

Surely if you want to be a real Master Craftsperson; after you’ve used 80gsm printer paper, brown packing paper, rolled up clingfilm (when it tears wrong and you need a metre of it to cover a yoghurt pot), and then dandelion fluff, the real final step is to give every piece of the wood a good hard staring at until it damn well smooths, shines and flattens itself to perfection.

That is one of the funniest quotes I've read this year 

[TheGreek]

10 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

a good hard staring at until it damn well smooths, shines and flattens itself to perfection.

On the firm's time, obviously

[Richard R]

7 hours ago, owen said:

My (!) builder taught me that the finest finishing abrasive is a sheet of clean paper and I have used that several times to smooth off stuff.

Check me out offering advice in the build forum!

I have to ask  @owen, has your build progressed beyond the clean sheet of paper stage yet?

 

(still ahead of mine, I should add)

[Owen]

1 minute ago, Richard R said:

I have to ask  @owen, has your build progressed beyond the clean sheet of paper stage yet?

 

(still ahead of mine, I should add)

Honestly, no.

[Richard R]

But that is still ahead of my build, which exists only as vague ideas of what I might do given time, space, and money.

These builds are inspiring,  just such a staggeringly standard. 

[Andyjr1515]

For the control chamber hatch, I take a sheet of paper and run my fingernail round the recess to make a template:


Then cut the shape out of the offcut slice I cut a while back a mm or less oversize.  And then just use a sanding block to gradually make my way round the recess until I get a clear but close fit:


As long as I can keep this flat - which means applying the finish to both sides each time - then this should hold well with magnets, and ditto the trussrod cover.

Other jobs done: fret ends rounded; headstock plate started being varnished.  I'm quite close to having few enough jobs left to be able to fit the list onto a piece of A4!

[Andyjr1515]

I decided, once the varnish had fully shrunk after a week's curing, that it did need flattening and then a couple of final coats of varnish applying. 

While I'm happy with ridges that are following the grain lines, I'm trying to get rid of the ridges that are from accumulated brush strokes and other lumps, bumps and dust buggies but taking care not to get back down to the timber.  And I've mentioned it before, but it is worth repeating, that unlike nitro and other 'melting' finishes, with this kind of finish you flatten before  the final coat and not after.  :

I have used here some 1500 grit wet 'n dry used wet and with a sanding block.  Almost there.  Again, I'm trying to flatten the varnish itself and not get down to the underlying timber - gently does it! :

I then give one or two thin gloss coats - here I generally thin the varnish around 5% to ensure that it flows and flattens.  This process often takes a few goes.  This is after the first go - close but no cigar:

While it's a whole lot flatter than before and the lumps, bumps and dust buggies are sorted, the surface finish is a bit bobbly.  So it is simply a case of letting it cure a day, then repeating with a very light flattening (usually 2000-2500 grit) and another go...and this whole process repeated as often as needed. Here, patience is your friend - you are only affecting that final couple of coats, so at least one time it's going to be OK!

This is better - much flatter than before and decent surface quality that will gloss up nicely with a light polishing in a week or so when it's fully hardened:

But it's already hard enough to be worked on, so I can now carry on and finish the build

Today's job is going to be fitting the magnets to the control chamber hatch that has also been varnished:


And then it's the other dozen or so finishing jobs, final polish and done!    Probably by the end of the coming weekend  

Must chase up Matt and see how he's getting on with pickups for it!

[TheGreek]

what a beautiful look...seems a shame to have to use it for merely playing music on...

Edited May 4, 2020 by TheGreek

[Geek99]

On 29/04/2020 at 20:58, Daz39 said:

Surely if you want to be a real Master Craftsperson; after you’ve used 80gsm printer paper, brown packing paper, rolled up clingfilm (when it tears wrong and you need a metre of it to cover a yoghurt pot), and then dandelion fluff, the real final step is to give every piece of the wood a good hard staring at until it damn well smooths, shines and flattens itself to perfection.

Nope final stage is always a good buffing with powdered sunlight, which has to be made by elves and only then on Wednesdays 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Geek99

[Andyjr1515]

Didn't get round to the hatch magnets yesterday.  Instead, I went for something much more scary!  Fitting the stoptail.

Now this really is a measure 15 times, drill once.  This - and the ToM bridge is even worse - has to be right.

I used my little drill press to drill the 11mm holes and then also used the drill press chuck to press them in:




I still have to drill the earth wire hole and fit the wire, so will be removing the lower bout insert soon (Tip about removing inserts/bushes, assuming they are open ended - get a bolt of the correct size, screw it in until it bottoms on the body wood at the bottom of the hole, use a spanner to carry on screwing and it will lift the insert gently out).

In terms of finding the insert hole from the control chamber with my earth-wire drill bit, I have a cunning plan.  Just got to remember what on earth that might have been  

But, challenges aside, it's starting to look like a guitar:


Now that I have the stoptail and tuners in place, I can pop a spare 6th and 1st string on and position the bridge to make sure that it is lined up with the fretboard.  Then the last really scary bit after checking the measurements, oh, probably 35 times? - drilling for the bridge inserts  

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I have a cunning plan.  Just got to remember what on earth that might have been

Was it supposed to end up with you owning a turnip of your very own somewhere in the countryside?

[Maude]

He hasn't gone and invented purist green has he? 😆

[Richard R]

On 29/04/2020 at 20:58, Daz39 said:

Surely if you want to be a real Master Craftsperson; after you’ve used 80gsm printer paper, brown packing paper, rolled up clingfilm (when it tears wrong and you need a metre of it to cover a yoghurt pot), and then dandelion fluff, the real final step is to give every piece of the wood a good hard staring at until it damn well smooths, shines and flattens itself to perfection.

How do I add this to the famous quotes thread?

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Richard R said:

How do I add this to the famous quotes thread?

One way to do it is to select "Quote", copy all of that including the headings then toddle over to the famous quotes thread, select "Reply to this topic..." and paste the entire quote in the text box.

Other methods are available such as copying the time stamp from the individual post.  It's usually in the form of "Posted March 29th or Posted 1 hour ago" at the start of the post you want.  Copy it then paste it into the "Reply to this thread" textbox in Famous Quotes and the forum should lift the content for you.

Failing that, the Mods are usually happy to help or even do it for you.

[Andyjr1515]

For the bridge, now I have the stop-tail in place, I can fit a couple of strings and get the bridge in exactly the right position both for string-to-fretboard-edge distance and, of course, intonation.

For the latter, I wind the top E string saddle fully forward and place that at the scale length and then wind the bottom E fully back and ensure that there are a couple of mm adjustment possible behind the 'normal' offset of around 5mm.  This way, if I have a cumulative build error of up to 1mm somewhere, it's still going to fully intonate.



And then same process - drill on the drill-press, press the inserts in and pop the bridge on the pegs to make sure it all fits as it should:

 

And finally, another mockup  


Bit of decorating tomorrow, but might be able to either make a start on the fret levelling or maybe sort the control positions

[Si600]

27 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

For the bridge, now I have the stop-tail in place, I can fit a couple of strings and get the bridge in exactly the right position both for string-to-fretboard-edge distance and, of course, intonation.

For the latter, I wind the top E string saddle fully forward and place that at the scale length and then wind the bottom E fully back and ensure that there are a couple of mm adjustment possible behind the 'normal' offset of around 5mm.  This way, if I have a cumulative build error of up to 1mm somewhere, it's still going to fully intonate.

I'm going to do the Er... thing again. If the top E saddle is all the way forward and at the scale length then won't there be no adjustment forward? Or is intonation always longer than the scale? That idea then doesn't work with the bottom E being all the way back. Or is it the average and the two extremes straddle the scale length to allow for adjustment?

On your common or garden Fender BBOT, where would you place that?

Stunning guitar and workmanship again. You couldn't get it "lost" in the post could you? 😜

Edited May 5, 2020 by Si600
Added compliment!

[Andyjr1515]

Yes - the intonation is always going to be longer than the scale.

Easiest way of seeing it is that when you press the string down to the fret, you are effectively bending it down to the fret in just the same way as we bend strings sideways for pitch change.  And it will always go sharp.  The amount it goes sharp is affected by the string tension and the action height (ie, the amount you are vertically bending).  It's never going to go flat.  And therefore the saddle is never going to need to be in a position that is shorter than the scale length.

On your Fender BBOT - exactly the same

[Si600]

So the saddles at the extremes with the foremost on the scale length is to allow for any minor wobbles in the measuring/build process?

[Maude]

Thanks for explaining that clearly @Andyjr1515. All helpful info when I come to fit my stingray bridge.

Just to clarify, if l wind the saddles all the way forwards and then put the peak of the saddle the scale length from the nut, it should be in the correct place? I'll wind the saddle back a couple of turns to allow for mis-measurements. 

[Andyjr1515]

39 minutes ago, Si600 said:

So the saddles at the extremes with the foremost on the scale length is to allow for any minor wobbles in the measuring/build process?

You need to know that with the bridge fixed in a particular place, that there is enough backward movement to intonate the most affected string (which is usually the Low E).  But the amount of movement of the saddles is sometimes barely adequate and so, if the top string saddle is as far forward as possible when you fix the bridge, then if gives you the maximum amount of backward movement.

On this one, there is only just enough movement - so if the bridge is even 0.5mm out, then you could get to the stage of not being able to intonate the bottom E...which would be upsetting.  And so the bridge (as with most SGs and Les Pauls) is angled slightly, pivoting from the top string saddle position to ensure there is a safety factor and, regardless of the string type, gauge or action height, it is always going to have enough backward movement to intonate.

Re-reading my poor explanation, I can see I might have to draw it! 

[SpondonBassed]

I read somewhere that the reason adjustment was required to give a string length that is actually longer than scale to allow for the bend that occurs where the strings pass over the saddles - the break angle.  It isn't actually an angled corner here, it is a bend.

The thicker the string, the great the radius of that bend.  Consequently, the thicker strings don't straighten out in as short a distance from the saddle as the thinner ones.  I believe the thickness is that of the core of the string more than the string complete with windings.  It seems to be that the portion of the string that is in a straight line is the bit that determines frequency of vibration... the part where it bends at the bridge is so stiff in comparison as to stop it from being noticeably active.

Intonation at the bridge compensates so that each string has the same length of unstressed string in a completely straight line between the nut and the start of the bend at the bridge.

That's my understanding of it anyway.

[Andyjr1515]

33 minutes ago, Maude said:

Thanks for explaining that clearly @Andyjr1515. All helpful info when I come to fit my stingray bridge.

Just to clarify, if l wind the saddles all the way forwards and then put the peak of the saddle the scale length from the nut, it should be in the correct place? I'll wind the saddle back a couple of turns to allow for mis-measurements. 

Basically, yes.  In most cases with most bridges, wind the G saddle fully forward and fix the bridge so that the peak of the saddle is at scale length (yes - I wind back a couple of turns because I know how inaccurate my work is.)

But before you drill holes, wind the bottom E saddle fully back (allowing for string windings too) and double check that this gives you at least 5mm longer than scale length, which is typically the maximum you are likely to have to lengthen beyond scale length to intonate the bottom strings.  If in doubt, put an accurate long metal rule to the nut of one of your fully set-up basses and note where each of the saddles are sitting in relation to scale length.

The thinkers amongst you will come to the conclusion that the only place that the string is going to actually accurately intonate is at the 12th fret.

The reality, of course is...yes...

I've said it before, basses and guitars are a series of compromises held together by hope...

[Andyjr1515]

Just now, SpondonBassed said:

I read somewhere that the reason adjustment was required to give a string length that is actually longer than scale to allow for the bend that occurs where the strings pass over the saddles - the break angle.  It isn't actually an angled corner here, it is a bend.

The thicker the string, the great the radius of that bend.  Consequently, the thicker strings don't straighten out in as short a distance from the saddle as the thinner ones.  I believe the thickness is that of the core of the string more than the string complete with windings.  It seems to be that the portion of the string that is in a straight line is the bit that determines frequency of vibration... the part where it bends at the bridge is so stiff in comparison as to stop it from being noticeably active.

Intonation at the bridge compensates so that each string has the same length of unstressed string in a completely straight line between the nut and the start of the bend at the bridge.

That's my understanding of it anyway.

Not quite right. 

It is the bending of the string, albeit vertically, to reach the fret (or in a fretless the fretboard).  So if you have a high nut, your bottom frets will NEVER sound in tune because the string is bending and therefore tightening out of pitch in trying to press it down to the fret.

So high nut, low action - it will be in tune at the upper frets and out of tune at the lower frets

and low nut, high action - will be in tune at the lower frets and out of tune at the higher frets.