Wooten

[mathewsanchez]

One of my favourite songs ever has Wooten on it. [b]PLEASE check this out[/b]:

[url="http://www.last.fm/music/India.Arie/_/Summer+%2528Feat.+Rascal+Flatts+%2526+Victor+Wooten%2529"]http://www.last.fm/music/India.Arie/_/Summ...tor+Wooten%2529[/url]

[Kongo]

I went off Wooten after seeing one of his clinics.
Obviously people only came to learn...well he's very standoffish on his techneque now.
He got people to come up and "Groove" and then went on to spout saying:

"Bassists should only groove and play as less notes as need be."

And completely contradicted himself. The people that came up were obviously not playing what they normally would as you could tell it was improv.
I don't hear many metal bassists play a walking arpeggio line for instance.

It's like he was saying "I do this but you shoudln't, I don't want any competition".

I learned 2 songs from him: Classical Thump and The Vision and I do enjoy his music but why is he acting like this now?

Nah, I went off him to go to my more true, down to earth inspirations.
And I also thought he was very Zen till I saw em.

For solo stuff Stuart Hamm speaks to me most.
Billy Sheehan's solo stuff is solo song writing in a band situation, not instrumental so I cannot put him in the same place but he too is a bigger inspiration than Wooten now.
Maybe if I was a Jazz-Funk bassists...But as I'm not I cannot relate to Wooten anymore.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Kongo

[Golchen]

That video was horrible. Sound quality 1 out of 10, worth of video material 1 out of 10. Can't be bothered with that!

[rslaing]

[quote name='Kongo' post='484282' date='May 10 2009, 01:04 PM']I went off Wooten after seeing one of his clinics.
Obviously people only came to learn...well he's very standoffish on his techneque now.
He got people to come up and "Groove" and then went on to spout saying:

"Bassists should only groove and play as less notes as need be."

And completely contradicted himself. The people that came up were obviously not playing what they normally would as you could tell it was improv.
I don't hear many metal bassists play a walking arpeggio line for instance.

It's like he was saying "I do this but you shoudln't, I don't want any competition".

I learned 2 songs from him: Classical Thump and The Vision and I do enjoy his music but why is he acting like this now?

Nah, I went off him to go to my more true, down to earth inspirations.
And I also thought he was very Zen till I saw em.

For solo stuff Stuart Hamm speaks to me most.
Billy Sheehan's solo stuff is solo song writing in a band situation, not instrumental so I cannot put him in the same place but he too is a bigger inspiration than Wooten now.
Maybe if I was a Jazz-Funk bassists...But as I'm not I cannot relate to Wooten anymore.[/quote]

Victor Wooten is a genius.

All of the players mentioned in this thread are fantastic musicians and great innovators.

Whether Wooten is losing his hair, whether he lost his ZEN, or is acting like a twat has nothing to do with what he does as a musician - he is probably the best at what he does in his genre. As are Hamm, Sheehan, Steve Bailey etc etc in theirs.

Having read all the posts, it seems the vast majority of criticisms are based on the personal listening preferences of the writer.

Why not just appreciate everything they all have to offer? Unless of course, there is anyone in here who is a "better" player than any of the above?
Then there might be some substance to the criticism. In the meantime, why don't you just extract some of the skills they show and practice until you are good enough to objectively make a fair point.

If we are talking about bass skill/technique/ability/knowledge/application then there is no one better than the guy in the video below. He played a double bass, died young, (recently unfortunately), recorded most genres except what people in here seem to have at the top of their list.

In the video link below, he plays his double bass with speed and skill to match the chap he is appearing with, a great guitarist. Watch this mans skill and dexterity - the best bits are towards the end so if the beginning does your head in, fast forward to his solo at 2.33 and playing of the melody at the end.

He makes Jaco's skills on the rendition of this tune seem very average................

(Put's tin hat on)

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm8HUqRSfHY"]Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen on bass and Joe Pass[/url]

Edited May 10, 2009 by rslaing

[Thunderthumbs]

[quote name='rslaing' post='484336' date='May 10 2009, 03:13 PM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm8HUqRSfHY"]Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen on bass and Joe Pass[/url][/quote]
Bloody hell

[Thunderthumbs]

On the subject of Victor's playing though, I've just been watching his "Groove Workshop" DVD and can honestly say I found it really interesting, very informative, and a good tool for me to learn stuff from.

I've not listened to lots of his stuff in the past, but what I have been listening to recently, I've enjoyed.

Sure, he does lots of tricks, but what top notch bass player doesn't?

He does stuff others don't, but as with everything, it doesn't appeal to everybody. But for some reason, musicians in general only tend to earn some kind of kudos with other (and in many cases, [b]much[/b] less talented) musicians if they [i]can[/i] try to please everybody.

There's music I don't particularly care for, but I can still sure as hell give credit to the guys doing it as they're probably making a much better job of than I ever could.

I just get a bit fed up hearing a constant slating of "he's only doing widdly-widdly/slappy tappy/doubly thumply" etc. He's doing what people expect of him, what's got him where he is, why people keep going to see him. How many times do we hear of people walking out of concerts because they didn't do what people were expecting to hear?

Victor, to me, is doing one hell of a job of what [i]can[/i] be done. If that in any way whatsoever means that I go on to do something I never thought I could, then I'll be very happy.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Thunderthumbs

[rslaing]

[quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='484390' date='May 10 2009, 05:11 PM']Bloody hell [/quote]
Exactly. And it just goes to prove that there are/were some brilliant players around that aren't in the hero worshipped arena - and no doubt there will be in the future too.

Keep your eyes and ears (and your mind) open!!

Edited May 10, 2009 by rslaing

[chris_b]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='413820' date='Feb 19 2009, 02:00 AM']....Yeah you can't really judge a player on what you see at a clinic. Poor sod's got to show off his chops all day every day and it's all going to end up on the internet for people like us to point at and say "No soul"....[/quote]
+1.
Come on, get real! He's not going to be doing the job by playing bass lines from your favourite numbers! He's there to display his technique and make the manufacturers gear sound good. They keep asking him back so, like it or not, he's plainly doing the right thing.

[skankdelvar]

No doubt Mr Wooten's got monster technique and supplies some lovely basslines to songs. However...

... solo bass (and bass solos) do not excite me or bring pleasure into my life.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='mathewsanchez' post='484262' date='May 10 2009, 12:37 PM']One of my favourite songs ever has Wooten on it. [b]PLEASE check this out[/b]:

[url="http://www.last.fm/music/India.Arie/_/Summer+%2528Feat.+Rascal+Flatts+%2526+Victor+Wooten%2529"]http://www.last.fm/music/India.Arie/_/Summ...tor+Wooten%2529[/url][/quote]I'd completely forgoten about that, I'm covered in goose pimples, I love that song and the album was the soundtrack to my wife and I meeting.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='413810' date='Feb 19 2009, 01:43 AM']To me, he doesn't make music, he creates platforms for his technique.
Bit of a monk thing goin' on there.[/quote]I was being very harsh there.
Victor, I apologise.

[beardybass]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='484484' date='May 10 2009, 06:56 PM']I was being very harsh there.
Victor, I apologise.[/quote]

I don't think you were being harsh actually, I think in the context that he's most often seen (being clinics and the like) that's exactly what he's doing. He's just showing off techniques a lot of the time, so what you said about building a platform is not wrong, when applied to that context.

I would have to say I disagree with the statement that there's no soul in his playing, I'm no fan of the old 'octopus on a typewriter' thing, but if you listen to stuff like [i]amazing grace[/i] or [i]Norwegian wood[/i] the man can groove. I think too often, not liking something is misconstrued as that thing being bad, I personally don't get Billy Sheehan or Stu Hamm, that doesn't make them bad players any more than my liking Juan Nelson or Larry Taylor makes them good players.

As for the baldness, Victa is clearly going a bit thin on top! But then... so am I and I'm not even 24 yet! Sad times, but it doesn't make us any less manly!
*shuffles away repeating "no less of a man" to himself*

[51m0n]

Vic is great in the early Flecktones stuff, I think he got the mix spot on on Three Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest - one of my favourites.

He is a product of his own success now, in that he gets paid to showcase - all the time - and every solo record has to be flashier to keep that income in to a certain extent. Vicious circle I reckon.

Personally his solo records have never done it for me like Manrings stuff does. I'm not a huge fan of jazz, but Michael Manrings' Drastic Measures is just awesome.

And IMO this is the finest solo bass piece I've ever seen (although its not in any way conventioanl bass playing)




I defy anyone to say that isn't staggeringly musical, and taking bass beyond the role of support in a completely convincing fashion. And no widdly slappity tappity stuff anywhere, its mainly great big long whole notes over a drone....

[rslaing]

Brilliant.............and what about this one?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY4Ra2KOyas&feature=related"]Enormous Room[/url]

[EBS_freak]

[leschirons]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='413878' date='Feb 19 2009, 08:12 AM']If you hear Victor playing in context, you'll understand it better. Most of his playing is some of the most utterly musical bass playing I've ever heard.

Remember, Victa is not God... God works [i]for[/i] Victa! [/quote]

Have to agree. I've seen him live twice with Bela Fleck and in that context of that particular band, I don't know another player that could offer what he does. I think the problem is that when we talk of our favourite demigods of bass, we tend to think of them as virtuoso players and assume that they'll be great to listen to as a solo act. Apart from all his promo work for manufacturers and DVDs and stuff, he's a great guy to have in a band with a lot to offer as a member which is what I'm sure he'd rather be doing as opposed to demo-ing amps and basses at clinics which obviously helps pay the rent. I've seen loads of "world class" players at clinics and to be honest, it's a few very technical but boring tricks for the masses. You need to look at players in a band situation to appreciate what they do. (Just my opinion)

Edited May 11, 2009 by leschirons

[BassMunkee]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='413820' date='Feb 19 2009, 02:00 AM']Yeah you can't really judge a player on what you see at a clinic. Poor sod's got to show off his chops all day every day and it's all going to end up on the internet for people like us to point at and say "No soul".[/quote]
+1
Seriously though, that is f**kin dull.

[rslaing]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='484866' date='May 11 2009, 10:23 AM'][/quote]

Some real intonation problems there......................

[BassMunkee]

[quote name='51m0n' post='484848' date='May 11 2009, 09:49 AM']Vic is great in the early Flecktones stuff, I think he got the mix spot on on Three Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest - one of my favourites.

He is a product of his own success now, in that he gets paid to showcase - all the time - and every solo record has to be flashier to keep that income in to a certain extent. Vicious circle I reckon.

Personally his solo records have never done it for me like Manrings stuff does. I'm not a huge fan of jazz, but Michael Manrings' Drastic Measures is just awesome.

And IMO this is the finest solo bass piece I've ever seen (although its not in any way conventioanl bass playing)




I defy anyone to say that isn't staggeringly musical, and taking bass beyond the role of support in a completely convincing fashion. And no widdly slappity tappity stuff anywhere, its mainly great big long whole notes over a drone....[/quote]
Now THAT is pushing the boundaries - reminds me of Rothko. I love this style and it just seems to me to so much more inventive than all that widdly-chops b0ll0x.
Maybe that's the thing though - maybe I just don't get it.

[Thunderthumbs]

[quote name='51m0n' post='484848' date='May 11 2009, 09:49 AM']And IMO this is the finest solo bass piece I've ever seen (although its not in any way conventioanl bass playing)




I defy anyone to say that isn't staggeringly musical, and taking bass beyond the role of support in a completely convincing fashion. And no widdly slappity tappity stuff anywhere, its mainly great big long whole notes over a drone....[/quote]
You see, that's it in a nutshell, that doesn't do much for me at all, and I have a couple of Manring CDs. It's all about opinions. It doesn't necessarily mean anyone's right or wrong. I suppose we're all right.

This is as much to me "self indulgent nonsense" as some would put it, as Victor's "slappity tappity" is to others.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='485148' date='May 11 2009, 04:06 PM']You see, that's it in a nutshell, that doesn't do much for me at all, and I have a couple of Manring CDs. It's all about opinions. It doesn't necessarily mean anyone's right or wrong. I suppose we're all right.

This is as much to me "self indulgent nonsense" as some would put it, as Victor's "slappity tappity" is to others.[/quote]

Fair play mate, I wouldnt suggest its for everyone at all. I doubt anything out there ticks everyones boxes...

Self indulgent it may be, but that is the nature of solo playing that pushes boundaries, if not its very definition! Otherwise we'd all be doing it and it wouldn't be pushing boundaries....

But its definitely very musical, and definitely pushing boundaries of what the instrument can be considered capable of, which is so often the argument supporting the VW stuff. And extremely valid for all of that.

Personally I'd rather hear that and its ilk than another doublethumpathonic masterpiece. Not knocking Vic, but I think that whole side of his playing has been artificially blown out of all proportion. IMO his groove playing is fabulous, and in fact what he's best at. I love the Bela Fleck and the Flecktones stuff....

Interesting point to note, how many people have you heard or seen imitating VW's double thumping thing in shops, on youtube etc etc? How many have you seen even getting close to Michael Manring's stuff???

Which is better, I dont know, which is beyond your reach (and nearly everyone elses), well if you answer to the above question is the same as mine, then MM's music is significantly harder to emulate. Doesn't mean its in anyway better or worse in my opinion, but I do think its interesting. If everyone were ripping MM's stuff, would we all be whinging about the number of kids out there worrying about changing their tuning all the time rather than learning how to play the instrument as it was traditionally intended.....

[51m0n]

[quote name='rslaing' post='485029' date='May 11 2009, 01:12 PM']Some real intonation problems there......................[/quote]

You do know thats the parody dont you????

Just making sure!

[Thunderthumbs]

[quote name='51m0n' post='485165' date='May 11 2009, 04:30 PM']Fair play mate, I wouldnt suggest its for everyone at all. I doubt anything out there ticks everyones boxes...

Self indulgent it may be, but that is the nature of solo playing that pushes boundaries, if not its very definition! Otherwise we'd all be doing it and it wouldn't be pushing boundaries....

But its definitely very musical, and definitely pushing boundaries of what the instrument can be considered capable of, which is so often the argument supporting the VW stuff. And extremely valid for all of that.

Personally I'd rather hear that and its ilk than another doublethumpathonic masterpiece. Not knocking Vic, but I think that whole side of his playing has been artificially blown out of all proportion. IMO his groove playing is fabulous, and in fact what he's best at. I love the Bela Fleck and the Flecktones stuff....

Interesting point to note, how many people have you heard or seen imitating VW's double thumping thing in shops, on youtube etc etc? How many have you seen even getting close to Michael Manring's stuff???

Which is better, I dont know, which is beyond your reach (and nearly everyone elses), well if you answer to the above question is the same as mine, then MM's music is significantly harder to emulate. Doesn't mean its in anyway better or worse in my opinion, but I do think its interesting. If everyone were ripping MM's stuff, would we all be whinging about the number of kids out there worrying about changing their tuning all the time rather than learning how to play the instrument as it was traditionally intended.....[/quote]
Yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Like I said, I've a couple of Manring CDs myself, and to be honest I can handle so much of Victor's double thumbing until the notes get lost and then all you can hear is the clickety clack of strings against wood, then it sort of loses its point for me.

But I still think there's room for a bit of anything......anything that opens up one's mind to the possibilities of what can be done. And to me, Victor is one of the guys that's managed to do that, as has Michael.

It's also one of the reasons I was blown away by Richard Bona last year. His playing was just immense, and hardly any slap whatsoever.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='485205' date='May 11 2009, 05:23 PM']Like I said, I've a couple of Manring CDs myself, and to be honest I can handle so much of Victor's double thumbing until the notes get lost and then all you can hear is the clickety clack of strings against wood, then it sort of loses its point for me.[/quote]

Yup that speed for speeds sake reminds me of Frank Gambale sweep picking extravaganza'a - 'kin rubbish w@nkery - STOP IT!!!

[AdamWoodBass]

I like Wooten, I do struggle with him sometimes but on the whole I do like him. Some of his techinques just leave me asking "er... why?!" but like I said most of his stuff blows me away.

Ad