Rehearsing online during CV isolation - tips & advice

[stewblack]

A couple of my bands have started using the Jamkazam app which works very well. No different from being in a studio in separate rooms - except we can see each other on screen. However I'm suffering latency issues and unhelpfully their help page is broken. Anyone know how to improve the latency in my system?

Both the jitters are fine and it says the system is fine but my latency is too high. I managed but with the others a nano beat late in my ears - well, it was a feat of skill to play at all!!!

I am using fibre and connected via ethernet.

Edited April 17, 2020 by wateroftyne

[ambient]

It’s my experience of anything like this. There’s always going to be a certain amount of time between you playing a note, and the technology turning the analogue signal to digital, then sending it onto wherever, then it being converted back to an analogue signal. I guess the speeds of other people’s internet connection would make a difference too?

[Dad3353]

Two options... Play only Slow Blues, or Free Jazz. For neither of these is precise timing an issue. Nowt much else, I'm afraid, sorry. 

[burno70]

This was mentioned briefly on a closed thread: is this possible? Anyone doing it? Had a quick butchers on the net but couldn't really find anything all that helpful.

Thanks

[Maude]

I'd like to know if there is a way but I fear latency will always be an issue on any internet based link up. 

[stewblack]

I'm using jamkazam. Improved my latency so I can use it now up until mother loads up a boxset of death in paradise and starts streaming 🤦🏼‍♂️

[burno70]

Yeah, the guitarist who is an IT manager recommended something called JammR which I'm going to look into in a bit.

 

[JimmyN2]

We are a jazz quartet, two horns, piano, bass and drums.  

Problem #1. Couldn’t hear the bass, even with my wife 2 floors up, complaining!  -  Fixed that by getting a Behringer U-Phoria UM2 USB Audio Interface and plugging the bass directly into it.  My mates can all hear me fine and are very happy with that (as is my wife as I use headphones).  

Problem #2. Drums.  The first hit heard, but then nothing.  So he got the the same audio interface as me and with a studio mike but the same result, no improvement.  Today he got his practice kit out which he can plug into any amplifier by jack plug (not usb) and normally is fine.  He plugged it into the audio interface instrument connection (same as me) first hit loud and then the rest hearable for me but very quiet.  
 

Oh and we’re all using iMacs.  
 

Any suggestions please

[Dad3353]

I've no expertise on this, but I'd say that the first hit is setting the level for compression/limiting, which cuts it all down. Given a respite, another 'first hit' would probably do the same thing. I doubt that there's an easy solution, except more sophisticated software, perhaps, but expectations of how it all works over t'web should be low, in any case. Good luck with it, just the same. 

[ambient]

Try NinJam, it comes with reaper and works well.

[JimmyN2]

2 hours ago, ambient said:

Try NinJam, it comes with reaper and works well.

Cheers, what’s’reaper’?

[JimmyN2]

2 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

I've no expertise on this, but I'd say that the first hit is setting the level for compression/limiting, which cuts it all down. Given a respite, another 'first hit' would probably do the same thing. I doubt that there's an easy solution, except more sophisticated software, perhaps, but expectations of how it all works over t'web should be low, in any case. Good luck with it, just the same. 

Thanks for that.   At the moment we are simply using Zoom Skype was too laggy.
For effects I have GarageBand but can’t see how to use it to get live sound into Zoom.  

[ambient]

23 minutes ago, JimmyN2 said:

Cheers, what’s’reaper’?

Reaper is a DAW.

https://www.reaper.fm

[jrixn1]

3 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

I've no expertise on this, but I'd say that the first hit is setting the level for compression/limiting, which cuts it all down.

Yes, it could be this:  "Zoom Room software audio processing includes echo cancellation, noise reduction and automatic gain control."

https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/115004830446-Zoom-Rooms-Software-Audio-Processing

So see if it helps to turn off the software audio processing.  But you'll each then have to set your input levels manually.

Edit: Hmm, this might only apply for "Zoom Rooms". But perhaps there's a similar setting for "normal" Zoom?

 

3 hours ago, JimmyN2 said:

We are a jazz quartet, two horns, piano, bass and drums. 

Better have a recount 😁

Edited April 5, 2020 by jrixn1

[Dood]

I've not tried NinJam even though I have been a Reaper user for over 20 odd years.  I've heard that KazamJam does something similar and may be worth taking a look at.

[dannybuoy]

3 hours ago, ambient said:

Try NinJam, it comes with reaper and works well.

Does it allow for live low latency jamming, or is it more for being able to share audio tracks between DAWs?

Edited April 5, 2020 by dannybuoy

[ambient]

Just now, dannybuoy said:

Does it allow for live low latency jamming, or is it more for being able to share audio tracks between DAWs?

It uses the latency, even adding more. It works by delaying what you’re hearing. I used it last week with some stuff from uni, and again yesterday, a friend of mine used it last week with his jazz trio too. It’s good.

[oldslapper]

4 hours ago, JimmyN2 said:

Cheers, what’s’reaper’?

It’s grim.

 

 

 

👏🏻

[JimmyN2]

3 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

Yes, it could be this:  "Zoom Room software audio processing includes echo cancellation, noise reduction and automatic gain control."

https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/115004830446-Zoom-Rooms-Software-Audio-Processing

So see if it helps to turn off the software audio processing.  But you'll each then have to set your input levels manually.

Edit: Hmm, this might only apply for "Zoom Rooms". But perhaps there's a similar setting for "normal" Zoom?

 

Better have a recount 😁

 

3 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

Yes, it could be this:  "Zoom Room software audio processing includes echo cancellation, noise reduction and automatic gain control."

https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/115004830446-Zoom-Rooms-Software-Audio-Processing

So see if it helps to turn off the software audio processing.  But you'll each then have to set your input levels manually.

Edit: Hmm, this might only apply for "Zoom Rooms". But perhaps there's a similar setting for "normal" Zoom?

 

Better have a recount 😁

Recount? Yes - it’s the Covid-19 effect. I think I’m losing it. We were a quartet until a few months ago and then became a quintet. Actually though we can operate as 3,4 or 5 😀

 

[DaytonaRik]

I'm using JamKazam in a three piece acoustic band that we've just started up - works pretty well and is currently free.  You might want to try that.

[JimmyN2]

Problem solved  and special thanks to jrxin1 who pointed me in the right direction.

In settings there are three things we all need to change if you are playing an instrument that isn’t plugged in directly.  
Untick the auto microphone volume and disable the two sections which refer to background noise.

As simple as that.  Zoom is good to go and our next scheduled rehearsal will be next Wednesday.

All works

Thanks for all your replies and interest.  
 

 

[petebassist]

On 06/04/2020 at 08:22, DaytonaRik said:

On 06/04/2020 at 08:22, DaytonaRik said:

I'm using JamKazam in a three piece acoustic band that we've just started up - works pretty well and is currently free.  You might want to try that.

 

Hi mate, just wondering whether you had to do the wired-connection thing? I don't have a 100M ethernet cable to run from my front room to the back kitchen, but maybe I'll move to the front room if I can get hold of a cable? The latency is "fair" on wifi, and I'm gonna test tomorrow, so I can report back. The user interface is a bit out of date (by about 10 years a least), but it's good to hear that it works at least. Tips appreciated 😉

[DaytonaRik]

10 hours ago, petebassist said:

Hi mate, just wondering whether you had to do the wired-connection thing? I don't have a 100M ethernet cable to run from my front room to the back kitchen, but maybe I'll move to the front room if I can get hold of a cable? The latency is "fair" on wifi, and I'm gonna test tomorrow, so I can report back. The user interface is a bit out of date (by about 10 years a least), but it's good to hear that it works at least. Tips appreciated 😉

We can get the latency down to about 60ms with cable - outside of their own recommendation of > 40ms but it is usable in our situation.  I obviously can't say that it'll be fine for all.  I think the app is dated 2014 but they did have an update recently.  WiFi is a bit of a no-go for us as we found that the latency increases to approx 250ms.

Most of the latency issues come from external internet connectivity, not from our gear.  We have a variety of interfaces including a Focusrite Scarlet 2, an XR18 and a TC Helicon Play Electric pedal.

An alternative to a wifi connection might be the network over mains option from companies such as TP Link which our guitarist uses without too many problems.

[mcnach]

We tried JamKazam but we're all using WiFi and found that it's not good enough. We can't all switch to cabled connection right now, so that's it.

 

[Bigguy2017]

Audiomovers will stream from a DAW to a browser at very low latency

https://audiomovers.com/