Stingray pickup - at the correct spot, passive... definitely Stingray

[mcnach]

I was looking for a thread I participated in not long ago, where someone was asking for advice about making their Stingray style bass passive. Some people were claiming that the Stingray pickup needed a preamp as it's otherwise low output. There's also the question about the preamp, and some claim you need the preamp to sound like a Stingray.

I have experimented with this quite a bit years ago when I cannibalised an old OLP expanding the cavity under the pickguard and trying different pickups at different spots etc, so I know that passive MM pickups are more than just fine on their own, and that the single most important factor for THAT sound is the position of the pickup (which is why every other bass with a MM at the bridge that pushes the pickup towards the bridge, compared to a Stingray, sounds great but not have that Stingray type of sound, just liek you don't get a Precision sound unless you put that pickup where it should).

Here's an example I found on another forum. The guy put a cheap MM pickup on a Harley Benton Jazz, passive, but he put it exactly where it goes on a Stingray. Of course, it sounds like a Stingray. He just does not have the ability to get the wider range of sounds that the active onboard EQ would give him... but the sound is unmistakeably Stingray.

See post #871 here:

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/music-man-sound-and-pickups.739218/page-44#post-23825611

 

[police squad]

Agreed. I wanted a rickenbacker copy that I had, so sound like a precision. It was basswood, bolt-on neck, r/wood board.

I placed the P bass pickup in the correct spot and hey presto, instant P bass

[kodiakblair]

I'm of the "pickup position is king" mindset myself 🙂

 

Idle thought.

Could we compensate for the position by moving our right hand towards the neck or bridge ?

[mcnach]

55 minutes ago, kodiakblair said:

I'm of the "pickup position is king" mindset myself 🙂

 

Idle thought.

Could we compensate for the position by moving our right hand towards the neck or bridge ?

 

Not really. You definitely get bassier/thumpier or thinner/sharper attack, and it's something I use to achieve different sounds live, but the effect is not the same as moving the pickup.

[kodiakblair]

3 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

Not really. You definitely get bassier/thumpier or thinner/sharper attack, and it's something I use to achieve different sounds live, but the effect is not the same as moving the pickup.

I didn't really think something that simple would work, the signal still gets collected in the same spot.

[mcnach]

6 minutes ago, kodiakblair said:

I didn't really think something that simple would work, the signal still gets collected in the same spot.

 

But I get why you ask... I never really fully understood why you can place a pickup in a certain position and sound so distinctive (Precision, Stingray, whatever) for any note you play, whether it's top or bottom of the neck. You'd imagine that you probably get the same harmonics if you move the pickup closer to the bridge and fret around the 3rd fret as you would leaving the pickup where it is and playing open strings...

I don't know (shrug). I know what it sounds like because I've tried all these things, but I can't explain it.

[kyuuga]

2 hours ago, police squad said:

Agreed. I wanted a rickenbacker copy that I had, so sound like a precision. It was basswood, bolt-on neck, r/wood board.

I placed the P bass pickup in the correct spot and hey presto, instant P bass

Wow, that's amazing! Beautiful bass...

I wanna do that as well. Where did you get the body/neck?

[Cuzzie]

@mcnach you are completely right on what you say.

As you have stated part of the stingray sound is the pick up and the pre amp, but let’s say you played your pre-amp flat - you may as well go full passive as you are not using it aside from some signal boost.

What would be nice is a ‘Ray’ pick up with a fixed pre-amp - so still active, but using the most common settings like the old Seymour Duncan APB-1 pick ups, add a normal tone knob to it and hey presto.

Come to think of it aside from just not touching the knobs, you could probably rout a bass and hide them at the desired setting inside. (And yes I am aware this is probably overkill and pointless, but I prefer fewer twiddle knobs)

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, Cuzzie said:

@mcnach you are completely right on what you say.

As you have stated part of the stingray sound is the pick up and the pre amp, but let’s say you played your pre-amp flat - you may as well go full passive as you are not using it aside from some signal boost.

What would be nice is a ‘Ray’ pick up with a fixed pre-amp - so still active, but using the most common settings like the old Seymour Duncan APB-1 pick ups, add a normal tone knob to it and hey presto.

Come to think of it aside from just not touching the knobs, you could probably rout a bass and hide them at the desired setting inside. (And yes I am aware this is probably overkill and pointless, but I prefer fewer twiddle knobs)

 

Every bass should have a passive tone control, and then whatever you want, in my opinion. 

My Stingray was a 2EQ originally. I had one specific sound I tended to prefer and use most of the time. No idea how different from 'flat' it was. Then I put in a John East 3-band, which is essentially the classic 2EQ plus a semiparametric mids module. I asked for a bypass switch too. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the sound I liked best was pretty much the same as bypassing the preamp

I do use the on-board EQ, especially the mids module, but always just little adjustments. I'd probably get a lot more mileage out of a passive tone control

 

[police squad]

1 hour ago, kyuuga said:

Wow, that's amazing! Beautiful bass...

I wanna do that as well. Where did you get the body/neck?

It was made by Retrovibe, it's a Renegade. It was a prototype body and neck which I bought from them with this finish, I believe one more was made in this colour and is owned by 12 string bassist who is on BC.

It has checkerboard binding too!!

[kyuuga]

18 minutes ago, police squad said:

It was made by Retrovibe, it's a Renegade. It was a prototype body and neck which I bought from them with this finish, I believe one more was made in this colour and is owned by 12 string bassist who is on BC.

It has checkerboard binding too!!

Damn that's insane. And how does it play? Is the neck good?

[police squad]

2 minutes ago, kyuuga said:

Damn that's insane. And how does it play? Is the neck good?

It's very light, very resonant and has a BIG neck. I havent gigged it for a couple of years now but I keep hold of it because it's not really worth selling. It owes me just over 350 quid and I'm hoping that I'll find a gig that needs a Glam-rock bass

[Cuzzie]

51 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

Every bass should have a passive tone control, and then whatever you want, in my opinion. 

My Stingray was a 2EQ originally. I had one specific sound I tended to prefer and use most of the time. No idea how different from 'flat' it was. Then I put in a John East 3-band, which is essentially the classic 2EQ plus a semiparametric mids module. I asked for a bypass switch too. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the sound I liked best was pretty much the same as bypassing the preamp

I do use the on-board EQ, especially the mids module, but always just little adjustments. I'd probably get a lot more mileage out of a passive tone control

 

I am just about to pop something together which should be simple to use, yet active with distinct sounds and no EQ.

Then I may do a FakeRay as well

[bloke_zero]

29 minutes ago, mcnach said:

Then I put in a John East 3-band, which is essentially the classic 2EQ plus a semiparametric mids module. I asked for a bypass switch too. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the sound I liked best was pretty much the same as bypassing the preamp

I did exactly the same thing - except I took out the preamp entirely - there was something I liked so much about the passive sound that dissapeared with the preamp - I noticed it especially when recording.  I'm not dissing the John East at all - a great characterful pre and awesome on stage, or for that MM sound.  For me, in this case, more was less.

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, bloke_zero said:

I did exactly the same thing - except I took out the preamp entirely - there was something I liked so much about the passive sound that dissapeared with the preamp - I noticed it especially when recording.  I'm not dissing the John East at all - a great characterful pre and awesome on stage, or for that MM sound.  For me, in this case, more was less.

 

I get it. I didn't get it years ago when I would put preamps even on my socks if I had the chance. But for a while now I've been changing my mind about the on-board controls on a bass. I like active basses' ability to sound the same whatever the volume is set to, and in general how its response is not altered much (any?) by the cable I am using, but I don't like the coloration many preamps impart. My ideal bass would have a transparent buffer (the active part), with a semiparametric mids module (like the John East), and a low pass filter (a passive tone control works just fine for me, maybe something like a Tonestyler if I want to be a little more sophisticated, an active LPF would work too, if I'm already using batteries).

Then, I would probably go to my all passive Precision and decide that all that was unnecessary to start with

 

[drTStingray]

A passive Stingray is quite feasible - some of the US Subs were passive, the short scale Stingray is passive with parallel, single coil and series switch, and both have treble/bass controls as well.

The Joe Dart bass (based more on the US MM Sterling bass) is also passive but just with a volume knob. 

All have the pick up in the Stingray sweet spot. 

[Maude]

This is quite interesting as I've got a couple of P basses I picked up cheap over the years to use for projects/parts etc. I've been using this time off to finish a couple of projects that stalled and have been looking at the P basses wondering what to to with them, I don't really need another P. After reading this I might get a MM pickup and put it in the sweet spot on a P and just run it passive. 🤔

[sshorepunk]

This proves what has always been in my head

Have tried several basses that have a MM pick up and none of them nailed that sound, always thought it was p/up position over pre amp. I know it wasn't the p/up as I had a 'ray with a SD alnico in it and it sounded great

So I have a sterling and that works for me

T

[mcnach]

11 hours ago, Maude said:

This is quite interesting as I've got a couple of P basses I picked up cheap over the years to use for projects/parts etc. I've been using this time off to finish a couple of projects that stalled and have been looking at the P basses wondering what to to with them, I don't really need another P. After reading this I might get a MM pickup and put it in the sweet spot on a P and just run it passive. 🤔

 

That sounds like a great idea

 

[bloke_zero]

12 hours ago, Maude said:

After reading this I might get a MM pickup and put it in the sweet spot on a P and just run it passive. 🤔

Welcome to my world:

[hooky_lowdown]

29 minutes ago, bloke_zero said:

Welcome to my world:

Very nice. How did you route the body? 😁

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 4, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 4, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[bloke_zero]

1 hour ago, hooky_lowdown said:

Very nice. How did you route the body? 😁

I cheated and got it that way - it's Warmoth.

57 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

What are the three controls?

Passive bass and treble with volume, and a pull on the volume for parallel/series - based on this: https://www.bassesbyleo.com/passive_l_series.html

I couldn't get a reverse 1meg pot with the right taper so it works backwards - less than perfect!

[mcnach]

2 hours ago, bloke_zero said:

Welcome to my world:

 

wow! that is beautiful!!!