Maxcat Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 The real question is am I being too precious/paranoid? Here is the scenario. My band hosts a jam night every 5 weeks to which we provide the PA and Backline. My contribution is Shuttle 6 210 combo. Plenty loud enough for the gig and gets rave comments about sound from that itty bitty etc ( all heard before) Loads of different basses go through it with no problems and I tend to set it up for me and leave it. However, there are 2 basses that regularly play that light up the output clip/limiter almost constantly. (50s passive something and a vintage Jazz). My Ric/Bongo/Ibanez/Peavey/Stagg never get the clip/limit on and I play pretty loud. Now Ive read up on the whole clipping thing and am aware of the 6 db buffer on the shuttle output but there is also a thread on Talkbass where one of the Genz designers states that it is OK to have the clip light on for 50% of the time. With these two basses its on almost constantly so I find myself darting on stage when I know these guys are getting up and turning down the input levels. I feel a bit precious doing this and last night at the end, one of the guys with a vintage 50s passive something said in jest it must be said "next time you buy a bass amp, make sure it can handle a bass". Totally gutted cos I really am over the moon with the shuttle. Its pretty high end for me and TBH if it failed, I would be hard pushed to afford another one. Back to the original question. Am I being too precious/paranoid, or do I need to get another rig for the jams? Any advice welcome even if it is "Man up or were a Man Down" I Thank You Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorick Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Tell them to back off the input gain, and put the rig through the pa a touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 [quote name='Maxcat' post='415207' date='Feb 20 2009, 12:47 PM'][/quote] You're not being paranoid and you shouldn't be ashamed of wanting to look after your hard earned gear. So why not keep the input gain at a level where nothing lights the clip light - then you can chillax and if the gain is a bit low for some basses, so what - different players can use the output level to adjust their volume. Or just tell the ungrateful git with the loud bass to bring his own amp next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Is it the input or output clip light that is coming on? The input light will just drive the valve and the output light means the limiter is kicking in. It wont actually damage the amp but it may affect the sound. I do think you maybe need another cab. Thats why I got the NeoX rather than the shuttle cabs. As for the ungrateful c**ts, tell them they can supply the rig next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb_C Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 [quote name='Maxcat' post='415207' date='Feb 20 2009, 12:47 PM']...."next time you buy a bass amp, make sure it can handle a bass".[/quote] That deserved an equally light reply along the lines of "next time you come to our jam, bring your own rig!" I don't think you should feel precious about wanting to look after your kit. [quote name='Maxcat' post='415207' date='Feb 20 2009, 12:47 PM']...Totally gutted cos I really am over the moon with the shuttle.[/quote] If you're happy, then what does it matter? It's YOUR rig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneless Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I'd have kicked him in the balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxcat Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='415246' date='Feb 20 2009, 01:18 PM']Is it the input or output clip light that is coming on? The input light will just drive the valve and the output light means the limiter is kicking in. It wont actually damage the amp but it may affect the sound. I do think you maybe need another cab. Thats why I got the NeoX rather than the shuttle cabs. As for the ungrateful c**ts, tell them they can supply the rig next time [/quote] Its the output light and the rig still sounds good so the limiters working. Im probably being a bit stiff about it. In all honesty the guys are not in the least bit ungrateful and dont mind me hovering around like a mother hen. So its just me being a bit obsessive and unsettled by the Genz designer comments. I could always take my Neox 112T as well then theres no way the limiter should be reached cos the ceiling should fall down before that. Also Ill take the advice of setting the gain and input a lot lower than I would for myself and leave the the Master Volume to handle the Loud. Thanks for the reassurance guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I think GB made a real mistake with having one light come on for both the soft compression and the final output limiter. However as you're only pushing a 2x10" I'd be hesitant to completely ignore it. Those basses that light it up constantly probably have a naturally bassier tone, hence higher power demands. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxcat Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='415339' date='Feb 20 2009, 02:23 PM']I think GB made a real mistake with having one light come on for both the soft compression and the final output limiter. However as you're only pushing a 2x10" I'd be hesitant to completely ignore it. Those basses that light it up constantly probably have a naturally bassier tone, hence higher power demands. Alex[/quote] Good advice Alex. I think Ill use the 2 cabs to combat the problem. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I have always taken the output limit light as a warning rather than a target One of the reasons for the popularity of modern basses with a bright sound is they dont suck up all your watts with bottom end so you dont need to be so loud to hear what you are playing. I dont get moaned at for being too loud half as much as I used to since I went for more hi-fi amps and basses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='415701' date='Feb 20 2009, 07:24 PM']One of the reasons for the popularity of modern basses with a bright sound is they dont suck up all your watts with bottom end so you dont need to be so loud to hear what you are playing. I dont get moaned at for being too loud half as much as I used to since I went for more hi-fi amps and basses [/quote] But if you do have an amp with ooomph(tm) few can deny the joy of a big fat old bass sound! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='415724' date='Feb 20 2009, 07:47 PM']But if you do have an amp with ooomph(tm) few can deny the joy of a big fat old bass sound! Alex[/quote] Good point Alex - well made Bottom end is what bass is all about and when I hear twangy hi-fi bassists, it makes me wonder why they play bass at all. I know it's easy to make a bass sound trebley and clever marketing has made it desirable, while deep bass is a greater engineering challenge requiring more power and intelligent design, but there's nothing like the feel of deep fat bass - who feels it knows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 But the big fat old bass sound is just the twist of a knob away if I want it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='415888' date='Feb 20 2009, 11:41 PM']But the big fat old bass sound is just the twist of a knob away if I want it [/quote] Gwaan twist dat knob man........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raslee Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='redstriper' post='415825' date='Feb 20 2009, 10:01 PM']who feels it knows it. [/quote] Irie Dredy Nuthin like a sound system with pure bass....Iration Steppa's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='415339' date='Feb 20 2009, 09:23 AM']I think GB made a real mistake with having one light come on for both the soft compression and the final output limiter.[/quote]But they did save 20 cents per rig. Add it up for a year's production run and you might have enough to buy beer for the company barbeque. [quote]Am I being too precious/paranoid, or do I need to get another rig for the jams?[/quote]Running like that won't hurt the amp, and at least you know your speakers are being protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxcat Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 Sound advice guys. Relaxing with the red light now. It does sound good so I guess thats the bottom line. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 [quote name='redstriper' post='415825' date='Feb 20 2009, 10:01 PM']Good point Alex - well made Bottom end is what bass is all about and when I hear twangy hi-fi bassists, it makes me wonder why they play bass at all. I know it's easy to make a bass sound trebley and clever marketing has made it desirable, while deep bass is a greater engineering challenge requiring more power and intelligent design, but there's nothing like the feel of deep fat bass - who feels it knows it. [/quote] what about a massive low end with a twangy high end to? gotta love valve amps ;< to the original poster it shouldn't damage it if you have the amp fully cranked it's not like you've got to worry about it blowing an output transformer it just might get a bit hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 [quote]Bottom end is what bass is all about and when I hear twangy hi-fi bassists, it makes me wonder why they play bass at all.[/quote] Kinda depends on the material you're playing I suspect? Me I prefer a barky lower mid tone to a woolly rumble but there are some songs it suits. Les Claypool would hardly sound good with a dub tone (Although he'd sound a lot better than me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='421768' date='Feb 28 2009, 03:56 PM']Kinda depends on the material you're playing I suspect? Me I prefer a barky lower mid tone to a woolly rumble but there are some songs it suits. Les Claypool would hardly sound good with a dub tone (Although he'd sound a lot better than me)[/quote] I kinda suspect he'd hardly sound any worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Aha there we have come to the nub of the issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 takes all sorts to make a world.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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