Cheap Bass Challenge

[SamPlaysBass]

Just before we were sent into our houses for the foreseeable (big shoutout to those key workers who are out making the world go round), I bought myself a Squier Classic Vibe 70s Precision bass. I had sold a Squier Chris Aiken bass last year that I had modified with EMG GZR pickups and really regretted it, so it was time for another.

I wanted a P bass that I could leave in the back of a van or not worry so much if it gets knocked or, to a lesser degree, nicked. I've got some great basses but it's hard to relax when you've got a couple of grand on a stage in a dodgy venue! I needed a 'cheap' bass. So here she is...

£339 from A Strings in South Wales. They had two in stock, this and a brown one. The brown one looked cooler on the Internet but the black looked better in real life and this one played better. 

 

I also wanted a bit of a project - I enjoy taking guitars apart and wanted my new bass to be different to everyone else's. So I decided to set myself a bit of a challenge, Top Gear style (but without the laughs and million pound budgets). A cheap bass challenge it was then.

I gave myself the challenge of spending 10% of what I paid for the bass on each upgrade - maximum of £34 per modification. I'd been looking at P bass pickups and the prices you can pay are crazy - you can easily spend 50% of what I paid for this bass on fancy pickups alone, so I thought I'd try a few budget conscious options out. 

 

First to go was the bridge. The bass played very well to begin with, but I've always had a problem with the thin, bent metal bridge that Fender supplies on its poverty instruments. I find they wobble a bit in the saddles and don't feel secure. So I ordered a Fender High Mass bridge from here -> https://mickleburgh.co.uk/shop/fender-jazz-bass-p-bass-brass-bridge-assembly/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItePq_P7q6AIVQbTtCh08ZgWEEAQYAyABEgISgPD_BwE for £34. 

 

I wanted to see if the age old forum rumour was true - does a bridge increase sustain and improve tone? To find out, I recorded myself before changing the bridge and after. (Soundcloud link at the end, and no it doesn't!)

The new bridge made the bass feel a lot tighter, and better screwed together, weirdly. It also added some weight to the very light body and helped it sit a bit more nicely on a fabric strap. It's a quality item, with well machined parts and no sharp bits. Intonation was easy to sort and it required very little saddle adjustment to get the bass playing nicely again. I'd recommend Fender's Hi Mass bridge. In terms of sound, I didn't hear any difference. See for yourself in the Soundcloud link below. The notes don't sustain for years like people say and the tone of the bass remained the same. I never understood why someone would want a bass that sustained for ages, I've certainly never found any use for 2 minute long sustained notes... yet. 

Happy with the bridge, I decided to try some new pickups. The pickups that came with the bass were a pleasant surprise - they had character and a nice output. The tone control was useful and helped tame some top end but it could also let the bass 'bite' when you wanted it to. I decided to change them just because I had some free time and I was curious. 

 

I had acquired a set of Seymour Duncan SDP-1 pickups courtesy of @shoulderpet. They arrived really quickly and I set about carving up my bass to try them out. They needed a little soldering, but I fancied a challenge. Unfortunately, I was only getting sound out of the E and A strings. Upon going through everything with a fine tooth comb (and a magnifying glass), I had realised that in trying to solder a connection from one half of the pickup to the other, I had lost the end of the winding. I had probably lost it when I put some heat on the solder point and it had slipped out of it's hole and gone missing. Bugger. I shelved those for now and I ordered a set of Entwistle PBXN pickups to see what the fuss was about.

Whilst I was waiting for them to arrive, I decided to shield the insides as per @la bam's awesome thread on his John Deacon bass. I had noticed a bit of noise when I wasn't touching the strings previously so thought why not. I got some aluminium tape and went to work on the gizzards. It's a surprisingly therapeutic thing, putting foil tape in the pickup cavity, but my attempt did look a bit like a 5 year old had finished it off. I put some on the back of the pick guard and we were done. This was the tape I used, a whole £4.09 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fixman-190288-Silver-Aluminium-Adhesive/dp/B00FHXA7TE/ref=pd_nav_hcs_rp_2/258-0320931-5931511?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00FHXA7TE&pd_rd_r=abbd6043-4e0b-4aae-9843-e48fde7dfe81&pd_rd_w=LHmq1&pd_rd_wg=TIXYi&pf_rd_p=12e82a50-703f-4e6f-ae56-e22f8e18f1f0&pf_rd_r=M0X9MJ3HJM004AQ0HFH7&psc=1&refRID=M0X9MJ3HJM004AQ0HFH7

The new pickups arrived from Pickupsplusmore on eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Entwistle-PBXN-pickup-for-bass-guitar-neodymium-designed-by-Alan-Entwistle/233364897542?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649). First thing's first, these pickups are DEEP. The screws that go through the pickup go pretty much the entire height of the pickup again underneath. I had to cut the foam that kept the original pickups secure in half and put them either side of the screws that hang down. After a quick test with a tap from a screwdriver and happy that they worked, I tried to refit the pick guard, but as is well documented on here, the 'ears' of the Entwistle pickup cover are bigger than the originals.   

IMG_3912.HEIC

Luckily, I had the Seymour Duncan pickups here which I salvaged the pickup covers from. Popped the Entwistle ones off, put these on, and the pick guard fit. Voila. 

I'm not a badge snob by any means (in fact I'm a bit gutted not to be representing a British guitar legend), but the Seymour Duncan covers look cool and the Entwistle pickups are superb. Using neodymium magnets obviously gives these pickups an increased output, but they can sound aggressive and menacing or they can chill out but keep a fat, smooth sound. There's more of everything - every frequency seems to have been turned up by 4 or 5 notches. Playing with these pickups reminds me of the first time I plugged my old MiM Jazz into my friends Fender Bassman 135; it made my bass sound higher in quality compared to playing through the shitboxes I usually went through. There were deep, rich overtones and each note left my bass beautifully. I feel like that is what these pickups have done to this bass. I'd be impressed if they were £130, but they aren't. They're barely £30. Honestly, a brilliant buy. 

 

I recorded this bass throughout the (admittedly limited!) mods. I've uploaded them to Soundcloud with a fingerstyle, a slap line and a picked blues tune to give a bit of a range. The fingerstyle pieces were played with the tone at 50% but the rest had the tone fully open. There is no compression, no touching up (oh matron...) or do-overs, or even a backing sound. Just the raw sound of the bass with all of my mistakes after each mod. 

 So in all, this bass has cost me:

£339 - bass

£34 - Fender Hi Mass Bridge

£29.49 - Entwistle PBXN

£10 - Seymour Duncans (that I ruined, sorry!)

£4.09 - Aluminium Tape

Total = £416.58

I'm really pleased with everything, and all upgrades cost no more than 10% of the bass. I've spent around 23% of the bass' new value modifying it. God, lockdown is fun, isn't it?  

[P-Belly Evans]

Fair play to you. Not modded mine and I still love it. Tempted by the vintage SD2's  but can't be arsed at the mo as the pickups seem cool to me. I just put flats on it and a piece of pipe lagging under the Ash tray... really great tone. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by P-Belly Evans
meant SPB1's - too much lock down gin at the mo!

[la bam]

Looks great, nice work!

[Delberthot]

I bought a Harley Benton '75 Jazz bass last year and modded it using all parts that I already had:

• US Hipshot Ultralites including Xtender
• Six String Supplies CTS pots & PIO cap solderless wiring harness
• '75 bridge & '62 neck Fender pickups
• D'addario Prosteels

I also tidied up the fret ends and it's an incredible playing bass. The original cost of the parts was about £300 on a £140 bass which wouldn't have made sense had I bought the parts specifically but I already had them so it seemed a shame to have them sitting there not being used. So my bass is the opposite to the OP's in that I have about 200% of the value of the original bass in parts fitted

 

[SamPlaysBass]

26 minutes ago, Delberthot said:

I bought a Harley Benton '75 Jazz bass last year and modded it using all parts that I already had:

• US Hipshot Ultralites including Xtender
• Six String Supplies CTS pots & PIO cap solderless wiring harness
• '75 bridge & '62 neck Fender pickups
• D'addario Prosteels

I also tidied up the fret ends and it's an incredible playing bass. The original cost of the parts was about £300 on a £140 bass which wouldn't have made sense had I bought the parts specifically but I already had them so it seemed a shame to have them sitting there not being used. So my bass is the opposite to the OP's in that I have about 200% of the value of the original bass in parts fitted

 

Show us some pictures, sounds like a great little project! 

[ead]

I bought a Farida FPB-08M around 4 years ago for £150.  Pretty decent P bass TBH and got gigged a lot in the blues band I was in at the time.

I made a few upgrades too.  Some preloved US pickups from this site, a custom B/W/B scratch plate from Jack's Instrument Services and a Kiogon loom also from here.  Upgrades cost around £100 or so.

Mandatory before and after pics for your delectation.

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by ead

[ead]

My other project in the same vein was an Overwater by Tanglewood Classic Jazz, coincidentally also bought for £150.  I added some preloved DiMarzio DP126 pickups from the site and another Kiogon loom wired as V/V/T (the original fit was V/B/T).  I may have put new knobs on it but not 100% sure about that

Before:

After:

[SamPlaysBass]

@ead they are lovely! I did try looking for DiMarzio DP126s but there were none around and I was getting impatient. Both of those look awesome 👏🏼 

Do they still get outings? There’s something wicked about giving a cheap bass a bollocking on a gig. 

[ead]

Thanks for the kind comments.  The Farida had a couple of years worth of gigging and then was sold on along with the Overwater (which was a bit too heavy for me in all honesty all though it got a decent amount fo stage time).   This funded my next project a £150 Antoria Jazz

I didn't do much of the work on this as it was refinished by someone who knew what they were doing so cost more than the bass.  Standard Kiogon stacked knob loom and new scratch plate added too. 

Maybe I should have left it alone and pretended it was a Geddy Lee J.  Very nice tone and great playability too.

Before:

After:

[Pea Turgh]

11 hours ago, ead said:

 

 

Love that!

[Trueno]

My Squier Jag SS... cost £170. Added Gotoh bridge (swapped over from my Mustang), rolled the fingerboard and smoothed down the fret ends. Finally added EMG passive Geezer pickups. The bass was excellent but the stock pickups were a bit weedy. Now it's gone from a back-up I would only use in an emergency to a serious no.2 bass.

The Gotoh bridge didn't make any difference to my ears (but it looks great)... but the new Schaller I put on the Mustang DID make a difference.

 

[shoulderpet]

16 hours ago, Williams4S said:

Just before we were sent into our houses for the foreseeable (big shoutout to those key workers who are out making the world go round), I bought myself a Squier Classic Vibe 70s Precision bass. I had sold a Squier Chris Aiken bass last year that I had modified with EMG GZR pickups and really regretted it, so it was time for another.

I wanted a P bass that I could leave in the back of a van or not worry so much if it gets knocked or, to a lesser degree, nicked. I've got some great basses but it's hard to relax when you've got a couple of grand on a stage in a dodgy venue! I needed a 'cheap' bass. So here she is...

£339 from A Strings in South Wales. They had two in stock, this and a brown one. The brown one looked cooler on the Internet but the black looked better in real life and this one played better. 

 

I also wanted a bit of a project - I enjoy taking guitars apart and wanted my new bass to be different to everyone else's. So I decided to set myself a bit of a challenge, Top Gear style (but without the laughs and million pound budgets). A cheap bass challenge it was then.

I gave myself the challenge of spending 10% of what I paid for the bass on each upgrade - maximum of £34 per modification. I'd been looking at P bass pickups and the prices you can pay are crazy - you can easily spend 50% of what I paid for this bass on fancy pickups alone, so I thought I'd try a few budget conscious options out. 

 

First to go was the bridge. The bass played very well to begin with, but I've always had a problem with the thin, bent metal bridge that Fender supplies on its poverty instruments. I find they wobble a bit in the saddles and don't feel secure. So I ordered a Fender High Mass bridge from here -> https://mickleburgh.co.uk/shop/fender-jazz-bass-p-bass-brass-bridge-assembly/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItePq_P7q6AIVQbTtCh08ZgWEEAQYAyABEgISgPD_BwE for £34. 

 

I wanted to see if the age old forum rumour was true - does a bridge increase sustain and improve tone? To find out, I recorded myself before changing the bridge and after. (Soundcloud link at the end, and no it doesn't!)

The new bridge made the bass feel a lot tighter, and better screwed together, weirdly. It also added some weight to the very light body and helped it sit a bit more nicely on a fabric strap. It's a quality item, with well machined parts and no sharp bits. Intonation was easy to sort and it required very little saddle adjustment to get the bass playing nicely again. I'd recommend Fender's Hi Mass bridge. In terms of sound, I didn't hear any difference. See for yourself in the Soundcloud link below. The notes don't sustain for years like people say and the tone of the bass remained the same. I never understood why someone would want a bass that sustained for ages, I've certainly never found any use for 2 minute long sustained notes... yet. 

Happy with the bridge, I decided to try some new pickups. The pickups that came with the bass were a pleasant surprise - they had character and a nice output. The tone control was useful and helped tame some top end but it could also let the bass 'bite' when you wanted it to. I decided to change them just because I had some free time and I was curious. 

 

I had acquired a set of Seymour Duncan SDP-1 pickups courtesy of @shoulderpet. They arrived really quickly and I set about carving up my bass to try them out. They needed a little soldering, but I fancied a challenge. Unfortunately, I was only getting sound out of the E and A strings. Upon going through everything with a fine tooth comb (and a magnifying glass), I had realised that in trying to solder a connection from one half of the pickup to the other, I had lost the end of the winding. I had probably lost it when I put some heat on the solder point and it had slipped out of it's hole and gone missing. Bugger. I shelved those for now and I ordered a set of Entwistle PBXN pickups to see what the fuss was about.

Whilst I was waiting for them to arrive, I decided to shield the insides as per @la bam's awesome thread on his John Deacon bass. I had noticed a bit of noise when I wasn't touching the strings previously so thought why not. I got some aluminium tape and went to work on the gizzards. It's a surprisingly therapeutic thing, putting foil tape in the pickup cavity, but my attempt did look a bit like a 5 year old had finished it off. I put some on the back of the pick guard and we were done. This was the tape I used, a whole £4.09 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fixman-190288-Silver-Aluminium-Adhesive/dp/B00FHXA7TE/ref=pd_nav_hcs_rp_2/258-0320931-5931511?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00FHXA7TE&pd_rd_r=abbd6043-4e0b-4aae-9843-e48fde7dfe81&pd_rd_w=LHmq1&pd_rd_wg=TIXYi&pf_rd_p=12e82a50-703f-4e6f-ae56-e22f8e18f1f0&pf_rd_r=M0X9MJ3HJM004AQ0HFH7&psc=1&refRID=M0X9MJ3HJM004AQ0HFH7

The new pickups arrived from Pickupsplusmore on eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Entwistle-PBXN-pickup-for-bass-guitar-neodymium-designed-by-Alan-Entwistle/233364897542?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649). First thing's first, these pickups are DEEP. The screws that go through the pickup go pretty much the entire height of the pickup again underneath. I had to cut the foam that kept the original pickups secure in half and put them either side of the screws that hang down. After a quick test with a tap from a screwdriver and happy that they worked, I tried to refit the pick guard, but as is well documented on here, the 'ears' of the Entwistle pickup cover are bigger than the originals.   

IMG_3912.HEIC 900.9 kB · 1 download

Luckily, I had the Seymour Duncan pickups here which I salvaged the pickup covers from. Popped the Entwistle ones off, put these on, and the pick guard fit. Voila. 

I'm not a badge snob by any means (in fact I'm a bit gutted not to be representing a British guitar legend), but the Seymour Duncan covers look cool and the Entwistle pickups are superb. Using neodymium magnets obviously gives these pickups an increased output, but they can sound aggressive and menacing or they can chill out but keep a fat, smooth sound. There's more of everything - every frequency seems to have been turned up by 4 or 5 notches. Playing with these pickups reminds me of the first time I plugged my old MiM Jazz into my friends Fender Bassman 135; it made my bass sound higher in quality compared to playing through the shitboxes I usually went through. There were deep, rich overtones and each note left my bass beautifully. I feel like that is what these pickups have done to this bass. I'd be impressed if they were £130, but they aren't. They're barely £30. Honestly, a brilliant buy. 

 

I recorded this bass throughout the (admittedly limited!) mods. I've uploaded them to Soundcloud with a fingerstyle, a slap line and a picked blues tune to give a bit of a range. The fingerstyle pieces were played with the tone at 50% but the rest had the tone fully open. There is no compression, no touching up (oh matron...) or do-overs, or even a backing sound. Just the raw sound of the bass with all of my mistakes after each mod. 

 So in all, this bass has cost me:

£339 - bass

£34 - Fender Hi Mass Bridge

£29.49 - Entwistle PBXN

£10 - Seymour Duncans (that I ruined, sorry!)

£4.09 - Aluminium Tape

Total = £416.58

I'm really pleased with everything, and all upgrades cost no more than 10% of the bass. I've spent around 23% of the bass' new value modifying it. God, lockdown is fun, isn't it?  

Hope you manage to get the SPB-1 sorted, the Entwistle is a fine pickup though I had to take mine  out as due to the size of the pickup I could not get it low enough, I also have the Fender Hi Mass bridge, I fitted it to my Squier Jaguar and on that bass it seemed to brighten up the tone a little but as your bass has a maple fretboard it is probably accoustically a lot brighter than my Squier so that would explain why it made no difference

Edited April 16, 2020 by shoulderpet

[TheGreek]

Perfect opportunity for me to ask...

I bought one of the Fender hi-mass bridges to install on my Squier Standard JP but I'm not sure whether I'm going to keep the bass (several other basses with similar configuration) so haven't installed it (yet).

I was wondering how much work is involved...do the screw holes line up with those from the BBOT without any mods??

[Paul S]

I spent £85 on an Encore double cutaway shortscale.  Body was extremely lightweight and neck was ok but nothing special.

Then spent £90 on a Hondo II medium scale with a fantastic maple neck but boat anchor body.

Sold pups for £20, bridge for £15, body for £10 so neck cost me £45.

My local go-to luthier joined these two together in a feat of wizardry and charged me £80

Wilkinson bridge, £20(?)

Entwistle pup £30-ish

Kiogon loom £25-ish.

I changed the Entwistle for a Fender CS 60s reissue model but will change back to an Entwistle as I prefer the attack  .

My maths makes that around £285 and I love it.  3.1kg of rock machine  

 

[SamPlaysBass]

1 hour ago, TheGreek said:

Perfect opportunity for me to ask...

I bought one of the Fender hi-mass bridges to install on my Squier Standard JP but I'm not sure whether I'm going to keep the bass (several other basses with similar configuration) so haven't installed it (yet).

I was wondering how much work is involved...do the screw holes line up with those from the BBOT without any mods??

The Fender Hi Mass bridge fits perfectly. I unscrewed the old bridge, used the same screws to the screw the new bridge in. Took less than 5 minutes. A very worthwhile upgrade in terms of playability if you are thinking of keeping the bass. Otherwise, save it for something you’ll keep. I think any Fender-shaped bass that’s strung through the bridge will benefit from one of these. 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Williams4S

[SamPlaysBass]

44 minutes ago, Paul S said:

I spent £85 on an Encore double cutaway shortscale.  Body was extremely lightweight and neck was ok but nothing special.

Then spent £90 on a Hondo II medium scale with a fantastic maple neck but boat anchor body.

Sold pups for £20, bridge for £15, body for £10 so neck cost me £45.

My local go-to luthier joined these two together in a feat of wizardry and charged me £80

Wilkinson bridge, £20(?)

Entwistle pup £30-ish

Kiogon loom £25-ish.

I changed the Entwistle for a Fender CS 60s reissue model but will change back to an Entwistle as I prefer the attack  .

My maths makes that around £285 and I love it.  3.1kg of rock machine  

 

What a little beast! The Entwistle pickups are seriously good. Plenty of attack but can also do mellow pretty well with some gaming of the tone knob. Bet that bass can flap some trousers. 

[PlasmaZombies]

Great looking bass! I'm seriously considering picking up one of these Classic Vibe Precisions as i really dig the binding and blocks look.

[SamPlaysBass]

@PlasmaZombies They are great basses and they happen to cost £339. There’s no downside! If a second hand one comes up that would be unbelievable value for money. I’d definite recommend them. 

[skankdelvar]

£5 - Black Encore body inc pup, white guard, harness, hardware from Daventry tip. Couple of scratches, polished out

£20 - Vester Jazz-type RW neck inc string retainer from BC-er Mr Foxen

£10 - set of Chinese machine heads

£4 - set of 'closing out sale' discount Hartke strings

£0 - assembly and set-up by me

I make that £39.00.

Played fine, looked OK. Traded to an amp tech as part-payment for a service. Sadly no pix but I've got to call him sometime, maybe then.

Edited April 17, 2020 by skankdelvar

[Paul S]

9 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

£5 - Black Encore body inc pup, white guard, harness, hardware from Daventry tip. Couple of scratches, polished out

£20 - Vester Jazz-type RW neck inc string retainer from BC-er Mr Foxen

£10 - set of Chinese machine heads

£4 - set of 'closing out sale' discount Hartke strings

£0 - assembly and set-up by me

I make that £39.00.

Played fine, looked OK. Traded to an amp tech as part-payment for a service. Sadly no pix but I've got to call him sometime, maybe then.

I think we have a winner.

[LukeFRC]

On 15/04/2020 at 19:59, Williams4S said:

I had acquired a set of Seymour Duncan SDP-1 pickups

I had a bass with them - they were phenomenal - I hope you manage to fix them- it shouldn’t be impossible 

[LukeFRC]

On 15/04/2020 at 22:42, ead said:

My other project in the same vein was an Overwater by Tanglewood Classic Jazz, coincidentally also bought for £150.  I added some preloved DiMarzio DP126 pickups from the site and another Kiogon loom wired as V/V/T (the original fit was V/B/T).  I may have put new knobs on it but not 100% sure about that

Before:

After:

I tried one of them in the shop when they came out - I thought they were very very good reguardless of how much they cost

[Bassfinger]

On 16/04/2020 at 21:17, Williams4S said:

What a little beast! The Entwistle pickups are seriously good. Plenty of attack but can also do mellow pretty well with some gaming of the tone knob. Bet that bass can flap some trousers. 

I'm a big fan of Entiwstle pickups.  Shows what a fosters take certain big name manufacturers do with their pricing when Entwistle can knock out such brilliant performers so cheaply.  I love their ceramic jobs, suits my rock style but still warm and smooth enough to turn their hand to more subtle work.

[SamPlaysBass]

4 hours ago, Paul S said:

I think we have a winner.

I think you're right! Any advance below £39? 😜 Congrats @skankdelvar, you built an entire bass for nearly the same price as my 'budget' bridge cost me. 

[SamPlaysBass]

3 hours ago, Bassfinger said:

I'm a big fan of Entiwstle pickups.  Shows what a fosters take certain big name manufacturers do with their pricing when Entwistle can knock out such brilliant performers so cheaply.  I love their ceramic jobs, suits my rock style but still warm and smooth enough to turn their hand to more subtle work.

Definitely. I've played some basses with £xxx pickups and they sound great, but compared to the likes of Entwistle and Wilkinson, there isn't much in it. In fact, I'd say that pickups are different rather than better or worse. Plus I quite like representing the underdog in badge wars  Perhaps some pickups are better suited to certain applications but even sub £30 pickups are a vast improvement over what a lot of manufacturers put in their basses from the factory. YMMV but the pickups I had in my old MiM Jazz from 2007 were absolutely dreadful. Actually uninspiring.